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ferroequine fan
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join:2005-03-01
Polar Park

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vaxvms

Premium Member

[Rant] Dell sucks

Dell tech support reps are script reading monkeys.
Dell customer support reps are taught to say "there's nothing we can do"

Bought an new XPS system. Problems appear as soon as powered up. Dell authorized reps replaced the HDD 3 times. Replaced the MOBO. (Reformatted a drive with 2TB of personal files too.) Sent me a new computer. Same problems as the 1st box. After 12+ hours on the phone with lots of Dellites I'm told "It's a Microsoft problem. Thank you for buying Dell. Have a nice day."
Anyone want to buy a shiny black boat anchor?
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium Member
join:2000-01-13

BlitzenZeus

Premium Member

Just curious, what was the problem?

I've had to deal with them for somebody, system shipped doa, it wouldn't get past the bios post, no drives would boot the system at all, you couldn't even boot the diagnostics which is stored on the included hdd, obviously not bench tested before it was shipped out, just parts thrown together. I always do things like memtest on a new build before installing an operating system as if the memory is bad, everything that uses that memory could be corrupted. They sent some yahoo to repair it, replaced the hdd, and mobo, they didn't connect one of the power connectors to the motherboard before powering it on. After it was realized what they did that new mobo didn't get past post either, and a replacement was demanded instead of trying to repair it again. The new one worked, and I don't think it's too much to ask to bench test systems before selling them.

Is it too late for a chargeback, or did you use another service like dell credit?

Yes they can be useless script monkeys, and like many places they might have to follow the script.
DarkSithPro (banned)
join:2005-02-12
Tempe, AZ

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I've read many bad opinions about Dell computers on enthusiast forums and You-tube videos, especially their Alienware lineup. If you even mention "Alienware" in some enthusiast/gaming forums everyone says what a looser and how stupid you are for even thinking about getting one, and how much it sucks balls. They even tell you to get lost with your shitty Alienware "not exaggerating". Now I've never owned a Dell product so I don't know why there is so much hate and dislike for some of their product lineups, but the only good ones I heard about are their business laptops.

vaxvms
ferroequine fan
Premium Member
join:2005-03-01
Polar Park

vaxvms to BlitzenZeus

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Endless controller errors on the original and replacement computer. Windows installation failures from the Windows restoration disc Dell sent me. System diagnostic tests run for 12 hours and say no problems found. 12 hours?
Asked Dell for my money back. Dell said all they could do was send me a refurb to replace the new computer that doesn't function.
I bought this XPS to replace an old XPS, which replaced an older XPS. This XPS = POS. Dell's response = too bad. I was very happy with the old XPS workstations.

On the phone with tech support tell them I can't connect to the internet. Their response? Go to the Dell website and download the network driver.

Tell tech support the error message I get. The script reading monkey response? That's not possible sir.
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium Member
join:2000-01-13

BlitzenZeus

Premium Member

said by vaxvms:

On the phone with tech support tell them I can't connect to the internet. Their response? Go to the Dell website and download the network driver.

Classic response, it should be operational out of the box, and they know it.

Got a second hdd, or decently large usb drive laying around? I'd disconnect their hdd, and try to install a linux distro to it, Mint or Ubuntu is popular, if it can't make the networking work nothing might.

You can also download a 8.1 U1 iso from microsoft, but no guarantee that will be any better if the problem is the hardware as it seems.

Not trying to second guess, just offering suggetions to make a system you might be stuck with work, however a e-pci networking card might fix the situation even if it's an additional cost.

Well good luck in any 3rd party recourse you can get.
BeefJerky9
join:2005-05-28
Spring, TX

1 recommendation

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In my experience, all consumer computer tech/customer support is horrible. That's why I buy business systems. I pay a little more, but I get better tested systems, and better support when I have an issue.

I currently have a Dell Precision laptop that I got refurbished, and I've had two prior model Dell business model laptops as well. Their business model laptops from their outlet are priced very competitively, in my opinion. The few times I've had issues with their business model laptops, their tech support has been fine. But, that side of tech support doesn't automatically assume you're an imbecile since they normally deal with IT people. Not to mention, their business systems come with 3 years of next business day on-site support, so repairs are quick as well.
H_T_R_N (banned)
join:2011-12-06
Valencia, PA

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said by vaxvms:

Sent me a new computer. Same problems as the 1st box.

At this point I highly doubt its a Dell issue. Are you plugged into a UPS with AVR or directly into the wall? If directly into the wall try a UPS with AVR.
What other things are you plugging into it? Getting more than one PC that has the exact same issue is almost impossible.
Mele20
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join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

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What error do you get that the tech said was impossible? I have an XPS 8500 (two years old with Windows 8 Pro). ALL of my machines have been Dell XPS ones going back to my first machine in 1999.

I too buy only from Dell Small Business and I use the Member Purchase Program which does mean that the support is via Member Purchase Program, thus in India (unlike SB support which, when MPP is not used, is located in the USA), but it is three year Premium support for both hardware and ALL software issues and next business day in home repair, overnight parts shipment to Hawaii even. The techs have very little accent and are NOT reading from a script. Did you use the XPS dedicated phone number with almost no hold time and techs only trained on XPS and Alienware? The number is available for both Home and SB purchasers.

You can ask to be connected to Dell Resolution Center. They were fantastic when I had horrible problems with a XPS in 2005 but it was Dell Small Business Resolution Center with 100 Supervisors in Round Rock, Texas. The Dell Consumer Resolution Center is not as good but it is ok (or was) as I helped a member here get to it and navigate the help when this person had horrible problems with an almost new XPS but this was not recent (2006 or 2007 I think).

But I tend to agree with H_T_R_N See Profile that this does not sound like a Dell problem. You've been vague though. How are you connecting it? Is it connected to a UPS and is the UPS stepped or sinewave? Recent XPS machines require sinewave UPS.

What OS?
itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

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Not surprising. I've been saying it for years that Dell = Garbage. And it's not some new revelation either. I've been in IT since the mid 90's and around computers since the 80's and Dell machines were always junk. Cheaply made, proprietary parts with crummy service.

I'd return it and buy a computer from another company. Now they are trying to be a software and services company like IBM? Good luck with that - I laugh when they call trying to pitch their crappy "solutions".
H_T_R_N (banned)
join:2011-12-06
Valencia, PA

H_T_R_N (banned)

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In the last 35 years how many times have you received 2 PCs at different times with the exact same issue that turned out to be the PC? Does Dell suck, they might but no more than any other supplier. Is this a dell issue, I don't think so.
itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

itguy05

Member

Reading the OP's posts, he states this is a replacement. So we'll assume it's in the same location as the other. If the new computer cannot function properly in the same environment as the old then it is, indeed defective.

Needing a UPS with an AVR to make a computer work is crazy. The power supplies these days are almost all (if not all) universal ones so feed them anything from around 90v-250v at 50-60 Hz and it will make the proper DC for the components.

I can tell you that in these 35 years, I've got exactly 1 computer hooked up to a UPS. That's because it's an iMac and I got tired of it rebooting in those power "blips" that seem too common as of late. Other than that they either go into some cheap surge strip or directly into the wall.

If the Dell in question can't handle power as delivered in the USA it is indeed a POS.
H_T_R_N (banned)
join:2011-12-06
Valencia, PA

H_T_R_N (banned)

Member

Not what I asked. I asked if in your 35 years in the industry you have ever received two complete units delivered at separate times with the EXACT same issue?
An issue that was not corrected with the replacement of 3 hard drives a mainboard in the original PC, and then a complete PC. The OP did not say it was a replacement he said:
said by vaxvms:

Bought an new XPS system.

IF the issue is EXACTLY the same with separate machines its either an issue with user installed/supplied hard/software, a power issue or a massive issue at the manufacture that more than just this guy would be affected by. That or hes one of the unluckiest SOB on the face of the earth.

I would expect more from a guy named itguy.

Correction it looks like it was a replacement. Not that it matters, just wanted to note it.
itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

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itguy05

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I have had machines with multiple issues. Especially with servers. Had one over Labor Day weekend. 3 motherboards later we think we finally got a good one. And, yes it was the exact same issue. Started out as not reading all the RAM we upgraded. Put in a new motherboard, that one lasted 24 hours till it died. Had the tech out with 2 more, 1 was DOA. The 3rd one is working fine to this day.

Stuff happens. Bad runs of parts happen. But then you buy bottom of the shelf (Dell), you get bottom of the shelf stuff.
quote:
An issue that was not corrected with the replacement of 3 hard drives a mainboard in the original PC, and then a complete PC. The OP did not say it was a replacement he said:
Yes it was a replacement for an old machine. My only inference is that it was a drop in replacement. It may not have been. From the 4th post in this thread:
said by vaxvms:

I bought this XPS to replace an old XPS, which replaced an older XPS. This XPS = POS. Dell's response = too bad. I was very happy with the old XPS workstations.

quote:
I would expect more from a guy named it guy.
Prior to arguing, I'd expect some reading comprehension...
H_T_R_N (banned)
join:2011-12-06
Valencia, PA

H_T_R_N (banned)

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said by itguy05:

I have had machines with multiple issues. Especially with servers. Had one over Labor Day weekend. 3 motherboards later we think we finally got a good one. And, yes it was the exact same issue. Started out as not reading all the RAM we upgraded. Put in a new motherboard, that one lasted 24 hours till it died. Had the tech out with 2 more, 1 was DOA. The 3rd one is working fine to this day.

Again. Have you ever had TWO completely different PC's exhibit the EXACT same issue, after a mainboard swap, hard drive swap and THEN a NEW PC? Your server example is nothing like getting a DIFFERENT machine. You are comparing apples to oranges, tho I would be hard pressed to buy the RAM issue you had unless it was a compatibility issue with the RAM and a new board with a different rev was used. Parts swapping will fix an issue even if you have no idea what the issue is. Throw enough new stuff at it'll work!
itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

itguy05

Member

said by H_T_R_N:

said by itguy05:

I have had machines with multiple issues. Especially with servers. Had one over Labor Day weekend. 3 motherboards later we think we finally got a good one. And, yes it was the exact same issue. Started out as not reading all the RAM we upgraded. Put in a new motherboard, that one lasted 24 hours till it died. Had the tech out with 2 more, 1 was DOA. The 3rd one is working fine to this day.

Again. Have you ever had TWO completely different PC's exhibit the EXACT same issue, after a mainboard swap, hard drive swap and THEN a NEW PC? Your server example is nothing like getting a DIFFERENT machine. You are comparing apples to oranges, tho I would be hard pressed to buy the RAM issue you had unless it was a compatibility issue with the RAM and a new board with a different rev was used. Parts swapping will fix an issue even if you have no idea what the issue is. Throw enough new stuff at it'll work!

Considering the ONLY thing that was replaced in that case was the motherboard, it was not a RAM issue. All else was the same. The last motherboard, RAM, and SAN cards are all humming along today just fine. So it was not a RAM issue.

There are many things that could cause his errors - crap components (entirely possible to get since they are bought in bulk), a specific thing he is doing that is triggering a bug, different firmware releases on the various components, an issue with Dell's image, etc... You do realize they are built in bulk from components bought in bulk. So if, say a capacitor manufacturer has a bad run and sends out 5000 bad units to Intel to build the MB's for Dell that it's entirely possible to get multiple bad units.

I've seen a lot of weirdness over the years that defies logic.

Now if he bought an HP and it did the same things you may be on to something but my bet is something with Dell's hardware.

If he replaced his old computer with this new unit - same location, same power, etc., then it's probably something to so with that model. Cause the old one worked in the exact same location fine.

Weirdal
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join:2003-06-28
Grand Island, NE

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In general I've been pleased with Dell products, but yes, Dell Home support is terrible. And not just tech support: order support and billing support is just as bad. I've stopped ordering from them entirely.

thedragonmas
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join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
Netgear R6300 v2
ARRIS SB6180

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yes they do, i purchased an xps 8700 from them last year, with in a month it started crashing with 0x124, to make this short, i figured out it was the CPU over heating. they refused to believe that. they changed out the mother board 3 times, the hard drive 3 times, the memory 3x, the power supply 3 times, the graphics card 3x, and had me reinstall the O/S so many times they had to issue new keys at least twice. keep in mind, i had in home service and the tech had to come from florida to georgia, and he told me he got paid over time for it. they could have paid for this system at least 4 times over by the time with one week left in the waranty i finally got some one in the UK instead of india, who agreed it was the CPU and sent a refurbish unit. so far so good with that.

but, im a glutton for punishment. i purchased a dell venue 7 tablet from a retailer. i need a new charger as the current one went belly up. guess what? these idiots keep telling me to "transfer ownership" i keep telling them i registered it the day i got it. they keep telling me "transfer ownership" ok so what part of the stores name is the first name, and what part is the last name? or am i supposed to transfer ownership from my self to my self? and of course there is no way to supply a scanned copy of the invoice on their website. i had to do that through facebook, the responce i got was it can take TWO WEEKS for registration to take effect.

BS!, ive learned my lesson, dell products are banned in this house. period.

the sad thing is? if you visit the dell forum, they have a sticky post about any one making legal threats to sue.. hey, heres a thought, if your customer service stinks so freakin bad, that you get regular threads of law suits, maybe, just maybe, you should fix your crappy customer service instead of banning users that get to such a point of frustration they make the threats!

EDIT: p.s. the tablet is a piece of junk, dont bother buying one if your thinking about it. last OTA update screwed it up and they aparantly wont be pushing lolipop to the old venue 7s, only the "new" ones, talk about a quick EOL cycle.

vaxvms
ferroequine fan
Premium Member
join:2005-03-01
Polar Park

3 edits

vaxvms

Premium Member

One workstation with 2 different motherboards and 3 different HDD then a second workstation, all with the exact same problem, disk controller errors.
Dell's final response?
It's a Windows problem. We shipped the original workstation more than 30 days ago so we won't return your money. You should be grateful for all the time we spent helping you. Stop pestering us.
Looks like I have a new stool for my workshop.

Dell sucks farts out of dead dogs butts.
vaxvms

vaxvms

Premium Member

For those asking about where it's plugged into AC.
»www.apc.com/resource/inc ··· features
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20

Premium Member

That's stepped and it is junk also. APS has deteriorated badly since being sold a few years ago. There was a time when I would not use anything but APS and their support used to outstanding but that all changed when they got sold.

You can buy a pure sinewave UPS from APS but I would recommend one from Cyberpower as the price is better and their products are excellent. I did a great deal of research on UPS for Dell XPS before purchasing the XPS 8500. My older XPS 600 with a huge power supply was on an APC UPS stepped but that machine was made by Dell before Dell had to fully comply with the green energy requirements (EnergyStar) and before they began making the XPS compatible only with pure sinewave UPS. I thought long and hard about whether I really wanted an XPS since that meant I had to get a new UPS and if I bought from APC pure sinewave ones were $200 or more. I seriously considered a Vostro or other Dell as they would work fine attached to the APC UPS I had which was stepped.

Dell employees are not knowledgeable about UPS especially those in the consumer division. So, you usually are not even asked the make and model of your UPS and even if you are Dell employees most likely will not be aware of the numerous problems caused by the UPS if it is stepped and a recent (beginning with the 8500) XPS machine is attached to it. Your problem sounds exactly like some of the posts I read when doing research on what kind of UPS I could use with the XPS 8500 and newer.

If APS still has the tradeup program use that to get a pure sinewave UPS or here is the CyberPower one I bought from Dell at the same time I purchased my XPS 8500:

»www.cyberpowersystems.co ··· LCD.html

Amazon has a better price for it with 1000+ reviews and rated at 4.5 stars:

»www.amazon.com/CyberPowe ··· 0429N192
H_T_R_N (banned)
join:2011-12-06
Valencia, PA

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How long after the first one did you get the second one?

vaxvms
ferroequine fan
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join:2005-03-01
Polar Park

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Many of the Dellbots I communicated with questioned the conclusions made by other Dellbots. Dellbots sent to the site (my home) never questioned the setup or conculuded the problem was not with the hardware sent to me.

The majority of Dell tech and customer support reps were rude mindless monkeys. Higher level Dell entities are computer illiterate.

Dell sucks.
like they say in prison - Bend over I'll drive
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20

Premium Member

I get that you are really angry at Dell. As I said, Dell will deny the connection of this sort of problem having anything to do with using a stepped UPS but that doesn't mean it is not a real problem and it is a source of XPS machines having the kind of problems you are having. SOME people can run an XPS 8500 and newer machine connected to a stepped UPS but many cannot. Whether you can or can't apparently has to do with your electric company, your power. Since not everyone buying an XPS is affected by this problem Dell is not going to warn prospective buyers about it or even tell the support techs to suspect this as a possible source of the problem.

I've been through Dell Hell back in 2005 and you can find my story if you use Google to search this site for my posts on Dell in 2005-2006 and at ihatedell.net forum (although I doubt they have posts going back that many years on their server). You might want to post at ihatedell.net. Great place to vent and has former Dell employees running the site. I haven't visited hardly in the past two years as I was due good luck with Dells after my Dell Hell excruciating experience and this XPS 8500 (it's the special edition version) has been great so far.

GroovyPhoenx
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join:2006-05-22
Gloucester, ON

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I guess you never heard of recalls on defective products? Not saying its the case here but yes, I have heard of things like faulty ignitions on cars. Recalled batteries on laptops etc etc. So yes, manufacturers DO indeed screw up, and right now, a certain brand of Lenovo is crapping out left and right we've had at our office returned 6 defective lenovos with the SAME issue. So indeed more then one machine has the same issue IS possible.
H_T_R_N (banned)
join:2011-12-06
Valencia, PA

1 recommendation

H_T_R_N (banned)

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said by GroovyPhoenx:

I guess you never heard of recalls on defective products? Not saying its the case here but yes, I have heard of things like faulty ignitions on cars. Recalled batteries on laptops etc etc. So yes, manufacturers DO indeed screw up, and right now, a certain brand of Lenovo is crapping out left and right we've had at our office returned 6 defective lenovos with the SAME issue. So indeed more then one machine has the same issue IS possible.

I never said that it couldn't happen with runs of parts. Thats why I asked how far apart the first and second PCs were. I didn't get a response. If there is a mainboard issue then more then just him would be affected. I just don't buy that a all the replacement parts were bad including a completely refurbed system, that would have at least run of a few minutes on the dell bench. Had he ordered 4 at the same time and they all hat the same issue I would get that. I've had it happen with CPUs, RAM and hard drives when ordering several hundred at a time. It one main reason RAID aras are not permitted to be created with the drives from the same run.

vaxvms
ferroequine fan
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Polar Park

vaxvms

Premium Member

We have decided it is not a Dell problem. We are calling it a Microsoft problem. We've found a website that reports a similar problem was seen with Windows 7 in 2011. Yes it has happened to all 3 XPS workstations we've sent you. No it doesn't happen to other XPS workstations. (Yes, you may be the first person to contact Dell about it. I have no way to determine this.) We have no idea why it happens to you (and we don't care.) You need to be VERY GRATEFUL for all the help Dell has provided you. It is NOT our problem you got 3 workstations with the identical problem.
Read the service contract. We cannot be held responsible for problems we deem to be caused by other parties. We cannot and will not refund your money. Live with it.
Thank you for buying from Dell.
[Said by a level 3 manager]

Dell sucks.

Msradell
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

1 recommendation

Msradell

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said by vaxvms:

We have decided it is not a Dell problem. We are calling it a Microsoft problem. We've found a website that reports a similar problem was seen with Windows 7 in 2011. Yes it has happened to all 3 XPS workstations we've sent you. No it doesn't happen to other XPS workstations. (Yes, you may be the first person to contact Dell about it. I have no way to determine this.) We have no idea why it happens to you (and we don't care.) You need to be VERY GRATEFUL for all the help Dell has provided you. It is NOT our problem you got 3 workstations with the identical problem.
Read the service contract. We cannot be held responsible for problems we deem to be caused by other parties. We cannot and will not refund your money. Live with it.
Thank you for buying from Dell.
[Said by a level 3 manager]

Dell sucks.

I would have a lawyer send them a letter asking them to prove to you that the problem is not associated with Dell's hardware or firmware! Explain that you can plug a different generation computer into your system running the same software and it works correctly. I don't see any place where they have proven that the problem isn't associated with their hardware.

MooJohn
join:2005-12-18
Milledgeville, GA

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Experiences like this just make my services that much more valuable. When you buy a custom build from a local store, they're in the best position to make it right when there's a problem. That goes double when it's something out of the ordinary. You also aren't beholden to proprietary parts when something needs to be replaced.

I may not be able to give away hardware like they do but I know every component in my build is the best I can get. It has to be, because I eat the replacement cost if something goes wrong.
H_T_R_N (banned)
join:2011-12-06
Valencia, PA

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said by Msradell:

I don't see any place where they have proven that the problem isn't associated with their hardware.

Remember you are getting only one side here. Not saying it didn't happen but in all my years I have never seen nor heard of anything even close to this without there being a fair amount of massaging the 'facts'. If he infact received 3 machines at different times then what are the chances that those were the only 3 out of all of them made that had the same problem. And how many others are left? 1, 2, 10, 100, 1000? IF Dell has an issue with every one of the XPS then I could see it, that not the case.

thedragonmas
Premium Member
join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
Netgear R6300 v2
ARRIS SB6180

thedragonmas

Premium Member

said by H_T_R_N:

said by Msradell:

I don't see any place where they have proven that the problem isn't associated with their hardware.

Remember you are getting only one side here. Not saying it didn't happen but in all my years I have never seen nor heard of anything even close to this without there being a fair amount of massaging the 'facts'. If he infact received 3 machines at different times then what are the chances that those were the only 3 out of all of them made that had the same problem. And how many others are left? 1, 2, 10, 100, 1000? IF Dell has an issue with every one of the XPS then I could see it, that not the case.

you mean like my xps 8700 where they refused to believe the CPU was defective? rare, but not impossible. fact is i think that was more an intel issue with the thermal compound under the heat spreader, and all so explains why so many delid the i7... dells propriatary ILM back plate doesnt help matters as your very very limited in what heat sinks can be used as a result (its a combo of the proper ILM plate and the intel heat sink plate for spring screw mounting) not saying its not possible there arent many more XPS 8700's out there with out this problem, as most users probably dont run theirs at 100% 24/7, even now with a replacement i cant run it at 100% it gets right up to TJ MAX.. i dont dare let it sit there long.

oh, and i still dont have a replacement charger, they still insist on repeating what has all ready been done. not worth my time to sue over a $30 charger, but if i had money to blow, i would just for principle.