dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
4537

gigahurtz
Premium Member
join:2001-10-20
USA

gigahurtz to BHNtechXpert

Premium Member

to BHNtechXpert

Re: [Internet] Faster Upload Speeds

said by BHNtechXpert:

said by Aprel:

said by cyong:

More complex offerings lead to more customer support training being required to support the small percentage. Which if not trained well, leads to degraded customer experiences for everyone.

I never thought of this, but yes, good point. CS reps would have to understand the difference between upload and download (this is not trivial) and explain to customers to help them decide whether they need extra upload. Would also lead to many customers getting extra upload when they don't need it.

Thats a hard enough task now. Most people honestly have no clue what they need...more often than not their request is based on someone elses suggestion who also had no clue but perhaps was a little more technically inclined than them (or at least thought they were) or their kids and well we know how that goes. Our agents are trained to ask specific questions and guide you based on those answers for best fit but even then that all depends on how much the potential customer really knows about their use habits. We also have some that are afraid to mention anything about downloads like torrents (never have figured out why....we could frankly care less just keep it legal so they will often minimize their usage. Some customers come from capped worlds where they may be afraid to discuss true usage or they think all providers "manage" usage....we don't. The more upfront you are about your use habits the better we will be with matching you to the right solution.

I couldn't agree more with the fact that many people have no idea what they need. I work with people who have the highest tier from Brighthouse and all they do is check Facebook, e-mail and pay some bills online. I also hear people blame Brighthouse because their computer is loading slow or their computer is randomly shutting down.
cyong
join:2013-05-31
Winter Park, FL
pfSense SG-2440
Ubiquiti UniFi UAP-AC-PRO

cyong to uniden9

Member

to uniden9
said by uniden9:

Working in IT, I can only think of working with large files, on remote file servers. Especially if the file has compression aspect to it. You are constantly recreating the entire file. But 10Mbps circuit for one person to work with, is normally way more than adequate. I have had issues with the dsl 1mb/256k service, and using voip phones(sales phone) and computer for order entry, with one person. We normally ask them to shoot for 768k/1mb upload.

you are spot on for most cases, and I appreciate someone who understands that latency != speed. (I use the analagy that I talk a mile a minute, you talk a mile a minute, but we are still 5 miles apart. Even after one of us says something it takes a few for me to not only hear it, but to figure out a response.) At the end of the day it comes down to knowing what you are doing, and working with the person(S) at the other location to make sure you are able to do what is needed.

Whenever I VPN to work (also IT, I sit between developers and sysadmins....), my upload needs are minimal but it does need to be responsive. By contrast, when live streaming I need responsive and at least 5mbps from 1080 resolution. And if that wasn't bad enough, when I need to send 1080p raw capture to an editor..... 1 minute ~ 2gb.... for 45 minutes per match, I care very little about latency but you will find me debating if it will be faster to burn and overnight blu-ray.... (It isnt, but the point is different tasks are different workloads.)

mixdup
join:2003-06-28
Alpharetta, GA

mixdup

Member

said by cyong:

latency != speed

I would argue that bandwidth != speed, but in reality it depends on what you're talking about. You and I as people in the IT industry would probably see bandwidth as speed, but someone playing games is going to see latency as speed. Just different kinds of speed.
IMcomguy
join:2002-04-14
Brownsburg, IN

2 edits

1 recommendation

IMcomguy to jkb246

Member

to jkb246
I also am in the same boat, needing a higher upload speed. This "minority" that BH seems to classify us in may not be as small as some think. They need to take notes from other providers and see the tiers that some offer. Don't get me wrong, as much as I love 150 Mbps downstream (which isn't always that way during peak times anyway...), I would be willing to pay a major premium for double the upload speed.

I do a lot of video projects and need to upload raw files to dedicated servers, as well as sharing projects with clients via a Pro Dropbox account or other medium. Thus I often deal with files (or multiple files) that are 12-16 GB in size, so it takes major time to upload something like that. Don't lecture me on compressing my stuff either. I'm well-versed in codecs and ways to squeeze as much bang for the buck out of things, I get it. I've also got offsite backups that I download (and potentially have to re-upload in case of any DR event) where some of those are as large as 400 GB. I can't imagine if I had to upload that to my server, it would take days, or probably weeks.

Sure, some argue that I need a business account. But then I'd have to pay 4x the amount I'm already paying per month for anything close to the desired upload that I'd need, and being an independent small business (LLC) fighting for every dime to put food on the table for the wife and kid, it's tough to justify that.

Brighthouse overall has been good to us. BUT, it certainly seems like they do not listen to their customers when it comes to this issue, as it seems as though the reps on here often have condescending remarks to people that request higher uploads. Sometimes they're just trying to be reasonable too, and I get that. But passing over some inquiries for higher upload tiers by just assuming they're not important, that sort of irks me.

I mean, Comcast has higher upload speeds (they even overprovision their upload tiers), Verizon certainly has higher uploads, and even some AT&T U-verse areas as well. So why not Brighthouse? I am a block away from being eligible for U-Verse, and 0.25 miles from Comcast's DMA (I know it's not called that, but I worked in TV for awhile... sue me). Frustrating.

The community my wife works in just 6 miles from here offers 1000 Mbps down, 1000 Mbps up with FTTH through Smithville Communications. $159 a month. No caps. Seriously. I want to move there so badly just to be able to take advantage of that, and my wife and I are seriously considering. But it's hard to justify it while we wait to see what BH rolls out eventually.

There is no other reason that my neighborhood is isolated by Brighthouse other than to monopolize their footprint. At least give us the opportunity to grab a higher upload tier. I would even be content with 60/20, or 90/30. Screw the 150, seriously.
tim tim tim
join:2010-08-14
Lutz, FL

tim tim tim

Member

Im willing to bet brighthouse has the ability to monitor their amount of upstream traffic and see it likely that they would base needs off of actual usage?
IMcomguy
join:2002-04-14
Brownsburg, IN

2 edits

IMcomguy

Member

And what, base the "need" by dividing it up among all of their customers? Not everyone is the same, so this is awful logic. Sure, 10% may not be much of their customer base, but I'd go out on a limb and say that QOS would improve across the board with a higher pad for the upstream, and that more than 10% would certainly benefit from it somehow, if even unknowingly....

They surely have some cushion to work with if they feel actual usage isn't yielding enough demand for it. Meanwhile on the other end of the spectrum, if some are maxing out their upload tiers, shouldn't they try to accommodate those folks and at least sell them that extra cushion? It would mean more $$$ for Brighthouse, and a happier niche of "tech savvy" folks who want it. And typically those customers needing/wanting more upload are those already paying top dollar for their 90/10 or now 150/10 services. Even a small sample, if those folks start jumping ship because of BH's inability to listen to their needs, those are high end losses, as they're top paying customers. One Lightning 150 customer may equal 2 "normal" users in terms of revenue lost.

Seems logical to me to sell it ala carte if they won't budge otherwise. And if others can do it, why not BH?
IMcomguy

IMcomguy to mixdup

Member

to mixdup
said by mixdup:

said by cyong:

latency != speed

I would argue that bandwidth != speed, but in reality it depends on what you're talking about. You and I as people in the IT industry would probably see bandwidth as speed, but someone playing games is going to see latency as speed. Just different kinds of speed.

However, latency can certainly be negatively affected by over-saturation. If bandwidth is maxing out, then latency increases as packets are delayed and acknowledged later by the receiver.

Bufferbloat, jitter, etc. it all starts deteriorating once you max out your connection, especially upstream. People used to pi$$ and moan when Limewire, Napster, Kazaa were prevalent on the internet. As most users unknowingly left them running in the background which just completely annihilated their upstream (today, a torrent client might do the same by opening a trillion sockets on your line at the same time, if you don't know what you're doing). Thus their internet "experience" was affected tremendously, simple web browsing included, until turning off/limiting those clients.

Watching your connection like a hawk has benefits sometimes... especially if you're a gamer.
utopia
join:2013-04-17
Hernando, FL

utopia to jkb246

Member

to jkb246
This is ridiculous, nobody needs more than 10mbps.

micksquirrel
@68.205.67.x

micksquirrel

Anon

said by utopia:

This is ridiculous, nobody needs more than 10mbps.

Just like nobody needs 300 down. How many families do you know actually max out 150 down??? You can be watching 3-4 1080p video streams at the same time and not max out your bandwidth (maybe short spikes depending on the movies being watched). I don't care how many gamers you have playing consoles at once and if you're downloading 10 files you still dont "need" 300 down.

That doesn't stop Brighthouse from offering it...yet they can't offer a more robust upload solution. I love Gary to death but you can't tell me that them offering 300 down is due to "mass appeal" when only 10 residential customers are maxing out a 150 down pipe continuously.

I completely understand and agree that Brighthouse does not have to offer more upload speed...but their "reasoning" given to us on here is completely laughable when in the next breath they say 300 down is coming soon and they offer products based on the majority.

Tell me how many "normal" families are maxing out a 150 down pipe on a continuous basis that there is a demand for more download speed in residential areas.

mixdup
join:2003-06-28
Alpharetta, GA

mixdup to IMcomguy

Member

to IMcomguy
said by IMcomguy:

However, latency can certainly be negatively affected by over-saturation. If bandwidth is maxing out, then latency increases as packets are delayed and acknowledged later by the receiver.

Yup. this is exactly why "speed" is a complicated term when it comes to networking (and the acks are why we need more upstream too)
BHNtechXpert
The One & Only
Premium Member
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL

BHNtechXpert to micksquirrel

Premium Member

to micksquirrel
said by micksquirrel :

said by utopia:

This is ridiculous, nobody needs more than 10mbps.

Just like nobody needs 300 down. How many families do you know actually max out 150 down??? You can be watching 3-4 1080p video streams at the same time and not max out your bandwidth (maybe short spikes depending on the movies being watched). I don't care how many gamers you have playing consoles at once and if you're downloading 10 files you still dont "need" 300 down.

That doesn't stop Brighthouse from offering it...yet they can't offer a more robust upload solution. I love Gary to death but you can't tell me that them offering 300 down is due to "mass appeal" when only 10 residential customers are maxing out a 150 down pipe continuously.

I completely understand and agree that Brighthouse does not have to offer more upload speed...but their "reasoning" given to us on here is completely laughable when in the next breath they say 300 down is coming soon and they offer products based on the majority.

Tell me how many "normal" families are maxing out a 150 down pipe on a continuous basis that there is a demand for more download speed in residential areas.

While I appreciate the kind words Mick honestly this specific topic makes me feel like a broken record and is a complete waste of time for me...have lots of things going on and I'm going back to them for now. I really have explained everything that goes into the decisions about these things with the hope that some would grasp the concept... it really is easy to understand from a business standpoint. Do not misinterpret my silence on it going forward as not listening...I'm just done repeating myself The 300 tier will have increased upstream...we will discuss it just shortly before release. On that note enjoy the back n forth....
Taiichii
join:2014-03-27
Melbourne, FL

Taiichii to jkb246

Member

to jkb246
I think once AT&T rolls out fiber to the house (which my Uverse installer told me 32940 was on the list) BHN will increase everything everyone is asking for. The installer even installed the fiber connection panel so they only have to do the hookup outside once it gets here. I'm curious to see how much 300mbps will cost in comparison to AT&T's 1GB fiber service.
sestrada
Premium Member
join:2012-11-05
U.S.A.
·Charter

sestrada to jkb246

Premium Member

to jkb246
I use my business class internet lines just to host websites. The need is sending those pages out, and backing up stuff offsite - all uploads. I'm sure other small businesses do the same. The best BHN offers is 10m up for $200/mo.

From reading thru this thread it seems like Brighhouse won't be be doing any better with uploads anytime soon.

Maybe their competitors in CFL will

--- CenturyLink, Inc. (NYSE: CTL) today announced that symmetrical broadband speeds up to 1 gigabit per second are available now to residential and business customers in select locations in 16 cities

One gigabit speeds help businesses increase productivity and efficiency by allowing them to gain instant access to cloud business applications, share multimedia files, stream video content, and back up data in real time. CenturyLink’s symmetrical upload and download fiber speeds of up to 1 Gbps outperform the slower speeds available through many basic business broadband providers, including cable companies.

»news.centurylink.com/new ··· r-second
Jeffcoast
join:2012-05-16
Orlando, FL

Jeffcoast

Member

Orlando is on it's list for the 1GB service, but when I go to their webpage to see pricing, it tells me my address can only get DSL at 10MB.
IMcomguy
join:2002-04-14
Brownsburg, IN

1 recommendation

IMcomguy to micksquirrel

Member

to micksquirrel
said by micksquirrel :

said by utopia:

This is ridiculous, nobody needs more than 10mbps.

Just like nobody needs 300 down. How many families do you know actually max out 150 down??? You can be watching 3-4 1080p video streams at the same time and not max out your bandwidth (maybe short spikes depending on the movies being watched). I don't care how many gamers you have playing consoles at once and if you're downloading 10 files you still dont "need" 300 down.

That doesn't stop Brighthouse from offering it...yet they can't offer a more robust upload solution. I love Gary to death but you can't tell me that them offering 300 down is due to "mass appeal" when only 10 residential customers are maxing out a 150 down pipe continuously.

I completely understand and agree that Brighthouse does not have to offer more upload speed...but their "reasoning" given to us on here is completely laughable when in the next breath they say 300 down is coming soon and they offer products based on the majority.

Tell me how many "normal" families are maxing out a 150 down pipe on a continuous basis that there is a demand for more download speed in residential areas.

SPOT ON.

IMO, the reason why they feel going to 300 down is worth their while is because a fair number of customers are (let's not sugarcoat it)... overly naïve. They see this huge number and automatically think "better".

By offering a paltry 20 or 30 Mbps on the upload, not many people will care or even notice it (even though it would likely help their overall connection somewhere along the line). Although I would care immensely if we could get that!!! Yet most simply see the 150 or the "300" and subsequently oogle all over it, creating more incidental purchases and people that call them up just to have "the best of the best".

10 Mbps for a connection way over $100/month is pretty much a joke. While I appreciate Gary's support for us here, he pretty much just has to tow the company line. And I understand why.

Comcast offers 105/20, but in reality the 20 is 25-27 Mbps in real world tests (I have two family members with that tier). So 150 Mbps should yield 30 up in a perfect world, wouldn't you think?

One day we'll get there I suppose. I just hope Brighthouse doesn't price us out of the 300 tier.
Michael_D
join:2013-02-17
Indianapolis, IN

2 recommendations

Michael_D to jkb246

Member

to jkb246
"No one will need more than 637kB of memory for a personal computer. 640kB ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates

"No one will need more than 10Mbps upload speed." - Bright House Networks

BHNtechXpert
The One & Only
Premium Member
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL

BHNtechXpert

Premium Member

said by Michael_D:

"No one will need more than 637kB of memory for a personal computer. 640kB ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates

"No one will need more than 10Mbps upload speed." - Bright House Networks

Not saying that and you know that Michael

gffs
@75.112.153.x

2 recommendations

gffs

Anon

Brighthouse needs to get with the times and address this. This attitude of "we know whats better for the customer than the customer does" and "you will get only what we give you" is utter hogwash. I get better uploads speeds on my phone via LTE on T-Mobile (unlimited btw). The 74 dollars a month they want for 35 down and only 2 mbps up is rubbish. When some real wireline competition hits their monopolized areas their days will be numbered.
Thechiv
join:2013-09-30
USA

Thechiv

Member

Title 2 2/5/2015....The day is coming soon and then we shall see. Hell there is already legal work to undo the FL laws prohibiting other options from entering the area. Lobbyist fail, People WIN.

paradigmfl
join:2005-07-16

1 recommendation

paradigmfl to jkb246

Member

to jkb246
I note that under the new proposed broadband definitions of 25/3 Bright house Network's current standard tier of 15/1 does not even qualify as "broadband". To get a plan which does qualify as broadband you need to pay $80+ a month.

»www.reuters.com/article/ ··· 20150108
paradigmfl

2 recommendations

paradigmfl to gffs

Member

to gffs
said by gffs :

Brighthouse needs to get with the times and address this. This attitude of "we know whats better for the customer than the customer does" and "you will get only what we give you" is utter hogwash. I get better uploads speeds on my phone via LTE on T-Mobile (unlimited btw). The 74 dollars a month they want for 35 down and only 2 mbps up is rubbish. When some real wireline competition hits their monopolized areas their days will be numbered.

Yes under the new definition of broadband proposed yesterday by the FCC head 35/2 (Lightning 30) would not even qualify as broadband due to the low upload speed.
Michael_D
join:2013-02-17
Indianapolis, IN

Michael_D to jkb246

Member

to jkb246
One thing has been troubling me about this conversation lately and I decided to get it out of my head and onto this thread.

When the electric company has brownouts caused by people using too much of their service, they don't ask their customers to justify increasing available power, or what kind of work that they're doing that they need more capacity.

They just add more capacity, and charge accordingly. It's a utility.

I'm not 100% sure I'm suggesting BHN should meter usage, but perhaps it would create a world in which people would have what they need without having to ask for it and hope it one day is made available?

Just thinking.

mixdup
join:2003-06-28
Alpharetta, GA

mixdup to paradigmfl

Member

to paradigmfl
It actually doesn't bother me that BHN offers speeds that "aren't broadband" as long as they also offer speeds that *are*. I think the biggest part of that push is to shame the phone companies where their legacy DSL is the only option usually maxing out around 6mbps.

paradigmfl
join:2005-07-16

paradigmfl to Michael_D

Member

to Michael_D
said by Michael_D:

One thing has been troubling me about this conversation lately and I decided to get it out of my head and onto this thread.

When the electric company has brownouts caused by people using too much of their service, they don't ask their customers to justify increasing available power, or what kind of work that they're doing that they need more capacity.

They just add more capacity, and charge accordingly. It's a utility.

I'm not 100% sure I'm suggesting BHN should meter usage, but perhaps it would create a world in which people would have what they need without having to ask for it and hope it one day is made available?

Just thinking.

Yes. If there were ample competition such a player would usually be absolutely smashed in the marketplace as consumers leave their service in droves. Unfortunately without ample competition....
paradigmfl

1 edit

paradigmfl to mixdup

Member

to mixdup
said by mixdup:

It actually doesn't bother me that BHN offers speeds that "aren't broadband" as long as they also offer speeds that *are*. I think the biggest part of that push is to shame the phone companies where their legacy DSL is the only option usually maxing out around 6mbps.

Yes but if you have to pay $85+ a month [with all the fees] just to get a connection which qualifies under the FCC's new definition of broadband then I think it shows a problem.

The legacy DSL is worse for sure but really from what I see they are likewise offering 1 Mbps upload which is exactly what BHN offers still on their standard tier. Really a 1 Mbps upstream ought to be considered legacy as well and it is interesting that the FCC seemingly understands this.

mixdup
join:2003-06-28
Alpharetta, GA

mixdup

Member

Well, price is a different issue, and a discussion to be had for sure. I think that's more of a function of the competition side of the issue, rather than can I even get broadband at all, which is the whole point behind the FCC's reclassification.

rebus9
join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay

1 recommendation

rebus9 to cyong

Member

to cyong
said by cyong:

More complex offerings lead to more customer support training being required to support the small percentage.

What would be so complex about offering a tier with higher upstream? Add a 50/25 tier to the existing lineup and see how many people buy. Verizon FIOS has made a big marketing push based solely on upload speeds.

Speaking as both a Brighthouse and FIOS customer, there ARE times when a fat pipe upstream is very useful. Uploading a camera roll to Walgreens Photo for prints, uploading video for family, etc. (this is aside from my $DAYJOB uses where multi-GB uploads can happen)

Another consideration-- when the upstream is saturated, downstream suffers (because of ACKs getting caught in the congestion). Even when I'm uploading an ISO on FIOS, my download never suffers because there is plenty of upstream capacity.
cory1848
join:2015-01-23
US

1 edit

2 recommendations

cory1848 to jkb246

Member

to jkb246
Is 10Mbps upload fast enough to handle 20000-50000 1-2 megabit photos (20-50 gigs) in a few hours? 5Mbps is not. My calculations is about 6-8 hours. Far too long. 20Mbps would help tremendously. So yes, there is a distinct need for faster up speeds.

Everyone I talk to says, move to a business line... Well BHN business is still only at 10 up. I scratch my head at that. My current employer has 100down/100up. That amount of data above takes about 30 minutes to upload.

I am about to accept a work from home position that would require uploads on those amount on a bimonthly basis. I am looking at remote office space or direct upload from Data center as alternatives.
gladiat0r
join:2007-01-01
Palm Bay, FL

gladiat0r to jkb246

Member

to jkb246
I would gladly convert 25% of my current 75mb DL speed to upload speed. I'm trying to stream on twitch.tv and 5 mbps is just not enough to have both no in-game lag and have a 1080p stream.
BHNtechXpert
The One & Only
Premium Member
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL

BHNtechXpert

Premium Member

said by gladiat0r:

I would gladly convert 25% of my current 75mb DL speed to upload speed. I'm trying to stream on twitch.tv and 5 mbps is just not enough to have both no in-game lag and have a 1080p stream.

Have you tried 150/10 yet?