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sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD
ARRIS SB8200
Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Juniper SRX320

sk1939

Premium Member

Run new cables

So the lady of the house has decided she's tired of the ethernet cables running down the hallway and under the carpet, and wants me to do something about it. In the process, I'd also like to run coax/phone to a couple places. The problem I have is that while the basement is open, the construction is such that I'm not quite sure where the walls are from the basement, is there a good way to determine this? I have a pine subfloor, a (what I think is paper layer), then old-growth T&G hardwood flooring, as well as lathe & plater walls in some rooms (which makes finding walls from the basement hard, and adding a cutout even harder). I also don't want to just drill a hole in the floor and run the cables through that for the pure reason that I consider it a hack job and that it looks bad.

garys_2k
Premium Member
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI

garys_2k

Premium Member

Do a reasonable job of locating the walls from the basement to ensure you're not close to pipes, wiring or ducts, then use one of these »www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW ··· 6&sr=1-6 to drill down from the top. Drill at a steep angle, down through the wall and then through the floor. Find the hole in the basement ceiling (right above the new sawdust on the floor) and you should be set.

shdesigns
Powered By Infinite Improbabilty Drive
Premium Member
join:2000-12-01
Stone Mountain, GA
(Software) pfSense
ARRIS SB6121

shdesigns to sk1939

Premium Member

to sk1939
Look for wires, A/C ducts entering existing walls from the basement.

I find the corresponding outlet and drill a hole 16" away past the next stud. then install a box the same amount over from the existing outlet/vent.

A stuf finder is helpful but may not work well on plaster/lath.

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD

sk1939 to garys_2k

Premium Member

to garys_2k
What should I use to fill the hole with afterwards? I forgot to add that there is also a baseboard and moulding at the base of all the walls.
sk1939

sk1939 to shdesigns

Premium Member

to shdesigns
I will look, but this house was done in a strange fashion when it was wired; the BX goes up to one outlet/room then runs through the wall to each outlet. Some outlets are back to back, and are connected accordingly. The one room I'm looking at does have a cable that goes up, but the other one has nothing.
lawsoncl
join:2008-10-28
Spirit Lake, ID

1 recommendation

lawsoncl to sk1939

Member

to sk1939
You could drill a tiny 1/16" hole through the carpet right in front of the wall where you want to add a drop, then and stick a wire down and locate it in the basement. Wrap masking tape around the bit so it doesn't grab the carpet fibers as you drill, or perhaps drive a finishing nail and pull it back out. Then shift your position over and drill up from the bottom into the wall space. You might also see the nails sticking through that secure the wallplate to the floor.

tschmidt
MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Consolidated Com..
·Republic Wireless
·Hollis Hosting

tschmidt to sk1939

MVM

to sk1939
said by sk1939:

What should I use to fill the hole with afterwards

Start the hole at the height you intend to mount the jack, either surface mount or LV box. Once you know you have the right space enlarge the hole if needed.

If you guess wrong a little patching plaster and some paint, you saved from the last time you painted the room, will hide the mistake.

If you have forced air heating the ducts make finding the right location pretty easy. Closets are also a good way to hide wiring.

/tom

Pher9999
join:2011-07-06
Saucier, MS

Pher9999 to sk1939

Member

to sk1939
From underneath you can see where walls are nailed in, since typically the large common nails used come through. you can also see where the smaller nails from the TG comes through as well. I don't have a way to take a picture easily here anymore as I just drywalled the ceiling.

GadgetsRme
RIP lilhurricane and CJ
Premium Member
join:2002-01-30
Canon City, CO

GadgetsRme to sk1939

Premium Member

to sk1939
The best tool for the job is:
»www.homedepot.com/p/Klei ··· cription

You decide where you want to put your box, make the opening for the box and use the Klein setup to drill the hole using the opening for access.

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium Member
join:2005-03-14
Woodstock, CT

ptrowski

Premium Member

That is pretty slick, thanks for posting.

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD
ARRIS SB8200
Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Juniper SRX320

sk1939 to lawsoncl

Premium Member

to lawsoncl
This kind of jack




not this (biscuit jack)


Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt to sk1939

Member

to sk1939
I would recommended checking out this type of old work box. It will allow for easy installation. Note there are tiny holes at each corner of the box. Place the box with the back facing you and you can push nails through the holes to mark where to cut the wall:

»www.lowes.com/pd_132831- ··· Old|Wall

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD

sk1939 to Pher9999

Premium Member

to Pher9999
The good news, I found the wall in the other room. The bad news is that the pilot bit tells me I have to drill a 1/4" hole through 4 inches of wood.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

1 recommendation

nunya

MVM

said by sk1939:

The bad news is that the pilot bit tells me I have to drill a 1/4" hole through 4 inches of wood.

That should take all of 20-30 seconds.

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD

sk1939

Premium Member

Pretty much. Used a Dremel to cut out the hole for the LV-bracket. It creates a lot of dust, but creates a very clean cut.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

nunya to sk1939

MVM

to sk1939
I absolutely hate plaster lathe walls. If it were me, I would use baseboard jacks. Easy-peasy done.
If you insist on in-wall installation:
There is always a clue as to where the walls are: Heat registers, long nails, wires, pipes.
If you want to work blind, this is one of the few times I'd suggest a d'versabit. D'versabits can be very dangerous. In this situation, not so much.
Cut the box hole and drill down. In fact, I used to use an 18 inch "bell hanger" bit for all my installs. No d'versabit required.
Be prepared for plastic rings not to fit the opening on woodlathe plaster walls. They are often too deep for the ears to catch. You'll have to use a metal peg-leg butterfly type.
I've found an oscillating saw to be a lifesaver when trying to cut a box hole in woodlathe plaster. A keyhole saw, jig saw, or reciprocating saw can have devastating consequences if you do it wrong.

cybersaga
join:2011-12-19
Selby, ON

cybersaga

Member

What's the difference between a d'versabit and a bell hanger bit?

Edit: Bell hanger bits are always rigid?
Body Count
join:2010-09-11
Columbus, OH

Body Count to sk1939

Member

to sk1939
fyi you can use data cable for phone cable. It will work. that way if you don't need a phone cable at that location you have an extra data cable.
OldCableGuy (banned)
join:2014-12-19

OldCableGuy (banned) to nunya

Member

to nunya
Nunya's points are spot on, and plaster lathe sucks. I've installed probably 1500+ cable jacks in walls, just follow registers to orient yourself
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

LittleBill to sk1939

Member

to sk1939
the best tool i bought, was a magna pull kit.

»www.magnepull.com/

extremely over priced for what it is. but my god does it work nice, i pulled over 1k of cat 6 and rg-6 through a 1970's house. it is a bit brutal

i also used the kline flex bit last week, i went sideways with it, not recommended, i went through the upstairs floor sideways with it on the first attempt. i also broke it on my first go around

there is definitely a learning curve with it, i did get it to work sideways. that said it works in places where the magnapull doesn't such as fireblocks in the walls, but the damage to existing walls can be higher till you learn how to use it

cybersaga
join:2011-12-19
Selby, ON

cybersaga

Member

said by LittleBill:

magna pull kit

I love magnets.

Strong magnets are expensive by themselves though. And that's got to be one heck of a magnet to keep that strong an attraction with sheet rock in between.

John97
Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium Member
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL

John97 to sk1939

Premium Member

to sk1939
You've gotten some good advice in this thread. I ran a whole bunch of ethernet at my old house. I feel your pain. It was a bitch.

When I finally had everything the way I wanted, we ended up moving...

I am in the process of doing it all again at the new place. Wireless bridges and powerline networking just doesn't cut it for me anymore.

So far, I'm doing well. The house on a slab, so I am using the attic. I've been able to run my cabling along the RG6 that was installed by the DirecTV installers when I moved in. They already did all the hard work.

Acc708
join:2008-06-28

1 recommendation

Acc708

Member

One last piece of advise when dealing with plaster and lathe walls, they often don't line up even from floor to floor. Many a basement is thicker than the first floor wall and can screw you up if you aren't thinking. I've seen a lot of holes drilled into a foundation wall that people expected to see come out elsewhere.
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

LittleBill

Member

said by Acc708:

One last piece of advise when dealing with plaster and lathe walls, they often don't line up even from floor to floor. Many a basement is thicker than the first floor wall and can screw you up if you aren't thinking. I've seen a lot of holes drilled into a foundation wall that people expected to see come out elsewhere.

the biggest thing is to study, study, study where your going to drill, outer walls are generally impossible to get into
lawsoncl
join:2008-10-28
Spirit Lake, ID

lawsoncl to nunya

Member

to nunya
said by nunya:

I've found an oscillating saw to be a lifesaver when trying to cut a box hole in woodlathe plaster

I love the vibrating saw (aka multitool) for cutting holes in drywall tool. Far less messy and much easier to control than a rotary tool.

Worst hole I had to cut was for a fart fan in a 1940's vintage house. I knew I was in trouble when the pilot hole I drilled to locate things in the attic bottomed out and wasn't all the way threw. Two layers of 1/2" drywall on top of bath board on top another layer of drywall on top of 1" oak slats. Just over 3" thick. I ended up having to use the sawz-all.

Corehhi
join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC

Corehhi to sk1939

Member

to sk1939
Wow that makes for a heavy ceiling.........

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD

sk1939

Premium Member

I have a joist every 6-8 inches as a result.
Liberty
Premium Member
join:2005-06-12
Arizona

Liberty to sk1939

Premium Member

to sk1939
Once or twice a year I run into a site where I simply can not figure out where I need to work in an attic/crawl space.

I have a couple really heavy duty magnets (sold as underwater retriever for dropped anchors etc)
I mainly use them on steep metal roofs to help keep me & my tool bag from sliding off.

I place it near my target wall and use my compass to find the approx area on other side to find out if wires, pipes, ducts etc are within safe distance.
Once generally located, use a 3' -5' flex bit to drill inside the wall & tape a pull string to bit and pull bit out other side...
keno5net
join:2002-01-05
Milwaukee, WI

keno5net to sk1939

Member

to sk1939
I have completely wired my home for cat5. It was built in 1927 and uses lath and plaster on all the walls. When cutting a box opening I have found that covering the area with masking tape helps. Mark the edges of the opening and start with a box cutter to cut through the top hard layer of plaster and as far into the softer layer below as possible. carefully remove the plaster to expose the lath. I use a hack saw blade or keyhole saw to cut the lath on the sides. on any lath that is to be cut completly on two sides hold the lath with a channel lock while cutting the second side or it will break free from the plaster and start moving with the saw instead of being cut. On the top and bottom where there may be lath that dosn't need to be completely removed cut the two sides down to the bottom of the needed opening and break the piece out with a channel lock the broken edge can be cleaned up with a knife if needed.

For the second floor run a duct of some sort 1-2 inch pvc or smurf tube from the basement to the attic. I had luck getting it through the wet wall near the soil pipe. Once you have the run to the attic the second floor can be fed down from there. I usually drill half inch holes into the walls as they are easier to locate using a piece of small sash or lamp pull chain on a string.

Another option is to drill down between the baseboard and the molding and use surface mount connections similar to telephone jacks if you can put them in an out of the way place.

pende_tim
Premium Member
join:2004-01-04
Selbyville, DE

pende_tim to lawsoncl

Premium Member

to lawsoncl
said by lawsoncl:

so it doesn't grab the carpet fibers as you drill

Very good advice. Yes those carpet fibers WILL get caught and pull off the rug backing.