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MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
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join:2009-06-17

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MaynardKrebs

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The real cost of Fiber

Work on Mackenzie Valley fibre optic cable begins
»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/n ··· .2896207

1,154-km of fiber trunk for $82MM installed in one of the most inhospitable and expensive places on earth to operate (aside from apparently anywhere Bell Canada operates), or about $71,000 per km. installed.

In Toronto, assuming 50' wide residential lots, that gets about 130 homes on either side of a 1km backyard run, or about $542 per house passed. On a two year contract for residential fiber service, that represents about a $1-$1.50/day price increase in order to have FTTH.

Hello CRTC? Anyone with a brain @ home?
Tikker_LoS
join:2004-04-29
Regina, SK

1 recommendation

Tikker_LoS

Member

your math doesn't work

you're not just tapping into a single pipe as it runs down the center of the back alley

individual runs of fibre to each house from a breakout point

a lot more added cost than ploughing a single big fibre cable

JAMESMTL
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join:2014-09-02

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JAMESMTL to MaynardKrebs

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to MaynardKrebs
In addition I seriously doubt all 130 homes would subscribe to FTTH if cable is also available. In the 4 months FTTH has been available in my area I have only seen a few routers ~20% switch from Videotron to Bell.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
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join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to Tikker_LoS

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to Tikker_LoS
I know the math doesn't work quite that way, but I'd like to see a real cost comparison of running an equivalent amount of aerial fiber in Toronto vs. the hellishly expensive North.

Cogeco bought Toronto Hydro Telecom (THT) about 5 years ago for $200MM or so, with about the same amount of fiber installed + a NOC + existing revenues + facilities & installs in more than 500 commercial/office buildings.

THT made more than a decent profit on the sale (from their annual report: In connection with this transaction, THT recorded a net gain of $118.7 million - or more than 100% profit).

»Re: Municipal fiber projects

Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
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join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON

Teddy Boom

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said by MaynardKrebs:

Cogeco bought Toronto Hydro Telecom (THT) about 5 years ago for $200MM

That was such a tragic lost opportunity.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues

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Comrade Miller needed the money for via pet project
taraf
join:2011-05-07
Ottawa, ON

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taraf to MaynardKrebs

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to MaynardKrebs
Your math's, at best, a gross oversimplification.

A few things you don't seem to have accounted for:
1) A large part of the cost for the Mackenzie Valley fibre optic installation is the cost of actually sending people up there and digging. That isn't a problem in Toronto, as most of the conduits/pole infrastructure is already there.
2) Each pedestal has multiple fibres running to it. There can be up to 8 but there is usually a minimum of 2 per house. They can't simply tap into a fibre as it goes past, meaning that the 130 homes you have is minimum 260 fibre optic cables that need to be installed.
3) Bell can't simply send technicians into a neighbourhood and start installing fibre without city permission.
4) Bell has already started ripping copper out and installing fibre in some areas. Quebec City was first, and they're doing Montreal and Toronto right now (have been for the last year or two) and are just starting in some parts of Ottawa. This is in addition to the fact that it's been years since they've installed copper in a new development.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop to MaynardKrebs

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Nothing in that story said this was being used for FFTH. Since they refer to it as a single cable its more likely long haul fiber.
btech805
join:2013-08-01
Canada

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btech805 to MaynardKrebs

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Costs would also vary depending on how much trenching was required. Through a residential neighborhood (where conduit isn't laid most of the time) that cost can easily triple. Bell's FTTN target ROI number was approximately $1000/house passed. And look at how many sectors didn't get FTTN, so i can bet you the FTTH cost would be MUCH higher, considering that with FTTN half the work was already done (the copper pairs to the homes).
Doonz (banned)
join:2010-11-27
Beaumont, AB

Doonz (banned) to MaynardKrebs

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I had a quote for 9km rural fiber run. 675k

Teddy Boom
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Toronto, ON

Teddy Boom to elwoodblues

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You'd think a Comrade would believe more strongly in public utilities
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
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join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to Doonz

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to Doonz
said by Doonz:

I had a quote for 9km rural fiber run. 675k

That's pretty much the same cost/km as they're paying up the Mackenzie Valley.

milnoc
join:2001-03-05
Ottawa

milnoc to MaynardKrebs

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to MaynardKrebs
First, what does the CRTC have to do with this?

Second, the price quotes are mighty interesting for a few future projects I had in mind.
Doonz (banned)
join:2010-11-27
Beaumont, AB

Doonz (banned) to MaynardKrebs

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to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

said by Doonz:

I had a quote for 9km rural fiber run. 675k

That's pretty much the same cost/km as they're paying up the Mackenzie Valley.

Yeah which is a rural run. My Connection cost was almost 350k for 3 city blocks to the fiber POI
ttvtech
join:2013-10-10

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ttvtech to MaynardKrebs

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$1000 per house passed plus $1000 per house connected. Say 100 houses. Lets say 90% of those houses have internet, 40% with Bell and 50% with Rogers. Lets say that Bell being able to offer TV brings an an additional 5% of the houses from Rogers to them, and lets say that half of Bell's customers subscribe to TV, and that that the extra 5 HSIA subs and 22 TV subs bring $20/month profit for each service. I think about 60% (but falling) of houses have TV subscriptions, so expecting Bell to get 22 seems like it's in the ballpark.

Costs would be $100 000 for the outside plant, plus $45 000 to hook up the 45 Bell customers. 27 new services sold brings in an extra $540/month or $6480/year. Payoff is about 22 years. Real world, probably a little lower since FTTH maintenance costs are supposed to be lower than copper. I doubt they'd be radically lower.

Ignore the phone, for 3 reasons:
-Served adequately by existing copper, the product doesn't benefit from being on FTTH
-A decreasing number of people have them
-Not a significant source of revenue long term, so can be ignored in rough numbers

The numbers are worse in areas that already have Bell IPTV, since there's less additional products to sell. The only extra revenue comes from the small number of people who want internet speeds above what copper can offer. But the numbers get better in places where internet isn't offered at all, since there's more possible additional products to be sold. Although that 2nd scenario is tempered by the fact that those places are generally rural and the costs to install everything will be a bit higher.

So with a 22 year payoff using back-of-the-napkin numbers, it's far from a no-brainer to convert. Long term, it's worth it, but you can see why there's no rush.

Hopefully my math is right....?

(This is just a brownfield case, anything greenfield would be FTTH since the costs aren't that much more than copper.)
jumpingryan
join:2008-07-27
Pembroke, ON

jumpingryan to Doonz

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to Doonz
Mine quote almost the same distance.... A dedicated 20/20 was going to be $600 a month and $270,000.

Despite an abundance of aerial, they wanted to bury it the whole way....

I odviously didn't get it installed.