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NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

NormanS to cramer

MVM

to cramer

Re: Recovering POTS

said by cramer:

Everybody loves to trot out that straw man. Just because the gov didn't "write a check" does not mean they didn't get money from them. (i.e. by not paying various taxes, fees, rents, etc. ...)

Good luck getting them to repay those tax breaks. I think the courts generally frown on ex-post facto actions by the government; i.e., they can't sanction you for doing something last year, when it was legal, just because it was outlawed this year.

Jtchadwell
@sbcglobal.net

Jtchadwell to NetFixer

Anon

to NetFixer
That's not true at all quit making up lies and false rumors!!!

skj
Welcome to the far side of reality
Mod
join:2002-04-04
Gone South

skj

Mod

said by Jtchadwell :

That's not true at all quit making up lies and false rumors!!!

It is true.
--------------------------
At decade's end, the trusty landline telephone could be nothing more than a memory.

Telecom giants AT&T and Verizon Communications are lobbying states, one by one, to hang up the plain, old telephone system, what the industry now calls POTS--the copper-wired landline phone system whose reliability and reach made the U.S. a communications powerhouse for more than 100 years.

-------------------------------
»www.wsj.com/articles/SB1 ··· 38954500
ham3843
join:2015-01-15
USA

ham3843 to NormanS

Member

to NormanS
said by NormanS:

Actually, the "fake" AT&T is a relation of Ma Bell; the bastard daughter, so to speak.

And what an ugly and nasty biatch she is too. LOL
quote:
You do realize that the amount returned under that stipulation would be $0.00, yes? Verizon and AT&T cashed no government checks.

They didn't cash checks but they did take billions on taxpayer funding to build all those long lines over many decades.

So Norman what do you think my idea of having Ma's long lost
cousin (Bell Canada) purchasing the long lines (fiber too) when they are spun off from ATT and Verizon in the near future?

Bell Canada is far from perfect, however they do seem dedicated to building a totally fiber long lines network in Canada.
Expand your moderator at work
96964493 (banned)
join:2015-01-09
USA

96964493 (banned) to ham3843

Member

to ham3843

Re: Recovering POTS

So you're okay with the caps they have right? After all if you take one part you take another? And the whole Canadian thing with the open networks is a mess. A regulated bell system solves nothing, POTS is a thing of the 19th Cent and going away. It's time to move on and see that IP is now here. Even in Canada you get VOIP for phone if you want FTTH. Kill the useless PSTN and move on. Hell, the networks have been converting for IP for over 10years now once your call hits the CO.
96964493

96964493 (banned) to mackey

Member

to mackey
Actually those 18meg connections are the IP DSL service. NOT the VDSL service. There is a difference. One is ADSL2+ the other is VDSL. Many areas only have aDSL2+ over the VDSL product.

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey

Premium Member

said by 96964493:

Actually those 18meg connections are the IP DSL service. NOT the VDSL service. There is a difference. One is ADSL2+ the other is VDSL. Many areas only have aDSL2+ over the VDSL product.

No duh. at&t still calls it "Uverse" though.
ham3843
join:2015-01-15
USA

ham3843 to 96964493

Member

to 96964493
said by 96964493:

So you're okay with the caps they have right? After all if you take one part you take another? And the whole Canadian thing with the open networks is a mess. A regulated bell system solves nothing, POTS is a thing of the 19th Cent and going away. It's time to move on and see that IP is now here. Even in Canada you get VOIP for phone if you want FTTH. Kill the useless PSTN and move on. Hell, the networks have been converting for IP for over 10years now once your call hits the CO.

Not a fan of those kind of caps but perhaps they might change certain elements when operating in the USA. I agree that copper must go and that is why Bell Canada seems to be a good fit, they are basically only installing new fiber lines and gradually removing the copper when they overlay an area with fiber. They really do seem dedicated to
fiberline services.

NetFixer
From My Cold Dead Hands
Premium Member
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Netgear CM500
Pace 5268AC
TRENDnet TEW-829DRU

1 edit

NetFixer to Jtchadwell

Premium Member

to Jtchadwell
said by Jtchadwell :

That's not true at all quit making up lies and false rumors!!!

I strongly suggest that you take your head from the dark moist area where it seems to reside, and start reading a newspaper, or perhaps visit a few on-line news sources occasionally. Even this site's front page news might be a good place to start:

»FCC Approves Frontier Acquisition of AT&T's CT Networks
»Union Boss Now Approves Frontier Takeover of AT&T in CT
»Regulators Balk at Frontier's Acquisition of AT&T's CT Network
»Frontier Buys All AT&T Landline Operations in Connecticut
»Connecticut Users See DSL, TV Outages in Switch From AT&T

Today, Connecticut -- tomorrow, the remaining 21 AT&T states.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

NormanS to ham3843

MVM

to ham3843
said by ham3843:

So Norman what do you think my idea of having Ma's long lost
cousin (Bell Canada) purchasing the long lines (fiber too) when they are spun off from ATT and Verizon in the near future?

Actually, I'd be happy if my current ISP (Sonic.net) could run fiber to all of their current Fusion customers before AT&T pulled the plug.
DMS1
join:2005-04-06
Plano, TX

DMS1 to NetFixer

Member

to NetFixer
People who don't understand why AT&T, and I presume Verizon too, want to get rid of regulated POTS service just don't understand how the communications infrastructure is going to change in the next decade. We are going to end up with:
* Virtually everything will have data connectivity - and by everything I mean anything with a power source. This is the Internet-of-Things.
* Almost all this connectivity will be wireless as far as end-user devices are concerned.
* The current distinction between local wireless (Wifi) and cellular wireless (LTE) will go away. The currently ongoing 5G work already addresses this.
* There will be a hierarchy of wireless access points, each with different ranges, bandwidth and ownership models - hotspots, EnodeBs, small cells, smart meters, peoples own handsets etc.
* There will probably be a shift to a billing model whereby a user just pays a monthly rate for a data tier, regardless of how that data actually gets to them. For example, you could move from a local hotspot when at home to a small cell when roaming.
* Voice will become just another service (a very low bandwidth one at that) on this universal dataplane.

With all that in mind, why would any sane network operator want to be tied to providing late-19th century copper loops for a few Luddites?

biotech
@66.249.113.x

biotech

Anon

said by DMS1:

With all that in mind, why would any sane network operator want to be tied to providing late-19th century copper loops for a few Luddites?

My reasons:
1. Dedicated connection for voice (VoIP must work in tandem with an internet connection)
2. Reliability over 100 years because of "sane" people caring for the PSTN
3. Power over copper (both RT and C.O)
4. Screw the internet of things.
End.

kenn10
join:2003-09-10
Highlands, NC

kenn10 to Craiger

Member

to Craiger
Of course they want everyone on LTE wireless data. Let's see, you get about 2Mb of data for $55. Imagine those who currently use around 150Mb of data over their cable, Uverse or DSL service. Wireless isn't regulated like fixed line services and the sky will be the limit on pricing.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco to mackey

Premium Member

to mackey
But can LTE reliably deliver 18 Mbps? The caps would likely have to be extremely low (Home Fusion style) to prevent people from using it.

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey

Premium Member

said by silbaco:

But can LTE reliably deliver 18 Mbps?

Depends. In a crowded area then maybe not, but in a sparse area it should be doable.
DMS1
join:2005-04-06
Plano, TX

DMS1 to silbaco

Member

to silbaco
said by silbaco:

But can LTE reliably deliver 18 Mbps?

LTE as it stands today - not so much, but with a wide-scale LTE-A deployment of small cells, techniques such a CoMP and eICIC will allow for much higher speeds than this.

hyphenated
@mycingular.net

hyphenated to biotech

Anon

to biotech
A lot of people have like .5-1M upstream. You can't talk on that very much with it shared between all devices on a LAN these days, on top of that a crappy modem. Etc

rtfm
join:2005-07-09
Washington, DC

1 edit

1 recommendation

rtfm to DMS1

Member

to DMS1
said by DMS1:

* Virtually everything will have data connectivity - and by everything I mean anything with a power source. This is the Internet-of-Things.

Where are my flying cars? They promised flying cars.
said by DMS1:

* Almost all this connectivity will be wireless as far as end-user devices are concerned.

Maybe on the refrigerators & door openers, but far from sure on real users.....
said by DMS1:

* The current distinction between local wireless (Wifi) and cellular wireless (LTE) will go away. The currently ongoing 5G work already addresses this

Never in a million years. Bandwidth shall always be scarce; the laws of physics ain't going away. Further, the cell carriers paid billions for their near-monopolies; and they will get lot$ from them.
said by DMS1:

* There will probably be a shift to a billing model whereby a user just pays a monthly rate for a data tier, regardless of how that data actually gets to them.

Sure!!!
ham3843
join:2015-01-15
USA

ham3843

Member

I wonder if DSM1 is the CEO of Verizon Wireless or one of his underlings?
LOL

He is deluded LTE will never, ever, be a substitute for the consistency, reliability, and practicality, of wired fiber lines.
Not only that the consumer will not take being bent over on paying for LTE any more than they are with the rising cost of pay TV services.
smk11
join:2014-11-12

smk11 to cramer

Member

to cramer
said by cramer:

I've seen their attempt at LTE-B. The amount of RF spectrum it would take to do this for more than a few fad ESPN events is insane. "Wireless Cable" has been tried many times before -- and failed every time.

How well is your cell reception? How about traditional OTA broadcast stations? (and they operate at many orders of magnitude more power)

~ 8 720p "channels" in h.265 in 5Mhz is what I keep seeing demoed. The demand for live TV is pretty dead so I would imagine most information would be sent during off peak times.

LTE-B would be for fixed devices with larger antennas.
smk11

smk11 to silbaco

Member

to silbaco
said by silbaco:

But can LTE reliably deliver 18 Mbps? The caps would likely have to be extremely low (Home Fusion style) to prevent people from using it.

Yes, up to 1Gbps for fixed. Price? Your first born. Caps? Unbelievably low. But the important thing would be cost for telco. Feed one tower and profit or fix the copper mess that is regulated. Tough one.

Rural areas would likely see the highest bandwidth because of how few users. Cell towers may be future "water holes" as people search for fast internet.

rtfm
join:2005-07-09
Washington, DC

rtfm

Member

Factual question:

When you have U-Verse over POTS; is there a POTS line card in the VRAD;

or

does the feed come from the CO line card, go through the VRAD's card, and on the subscriber?

gadawg
join:2006-01-27
Louisville, KY

gadawg to smk11

Member

to smk11
The government should make the telco and cable co's run fiber to existing areas and require fiber in new construction.
ham3843
join:2015-01-15
USA

ham3843

Member

Yes, because there are certain elements of infrastructure that
have not, will not, and cannot be implemented correctly unless there is
sufficient regulation requiring it be done. This is the reason why
the old Bell System created the best phone system that was the envy of the world, until things were deregulated. If we want a highly functional, reliable broadband pipeline for all citizens the gov't needs to
re-regulate the system.
GusHerb
join:2011-11-04
Chicago, IL

GusHerb to rtfm

Member

to rtfm
said by rtfm:

Factual question:

When you have U-Verse over POTS; is there a POTS line card in the VRAD;

or

does the feed come from the CO line card, go through the VRAD's card, and on the subscriber?

No, POTS continues coming from it's original destination (ie CO or RT). I believe they attach a jumper to the VRAD and it passes through a filter and then back out another jumper to the F2 side in the crossbox and off to the customer premise. Uverse techs correct me if I'm wrong.

ArgMeMatey
join:2001-08-09
Milwaukee, WI

ArgMeMatey to DMS1

Member

to DMS1
said by DMS1:

People who don't understand why AT&T, and ... Verizon ... want to get rid of regulated POTS service ... don't understand how the communications infrastructure is going to change in the next decade.
...

Wow, this all sounds fabulous. It might rival the Russian Revolution, the Dictatorship of the Proletariat, in the improvements it brings to the life of Josef Sixpack, or maybe even Ivan Denisovich.

It's a good thing telekom isn't part of the unregulated capitalist system, or this might end up benefiting mostly managers and stockholders instead!

rtfm
join:2005-07-09
Washington, DC

rtfm to GusHerb

Member

to GusHerb
said by GusHerb:

No, POTS continues coming from it's original destination (ie CO or RT).

So a VRAD does not qualify as a RT? Or a RT would be next to it? When I think of such, it's a SLC-96 or SLC-FO..... but I'm in Verizontal-land...

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey

Premium Member

said by rtfm:

So a VRAD does not qualify as a RT?

Correct, a VRAD does data (DSL) only.
said by rtfm:

Or a RT would be next to it?

Depends on where the phone signal is coming from. If from a RT then the RT may or may not be close to the VRAD. If from the CO then it could be anywhere.
cramer
Premium Member
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC

cramer

Premium Member

True. But they could stick a softswitch/mini-SLC in there to provide voice. ('tho I cannot fathom them going to the expense.)