 DavesnothereChange is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada
1 edit |
to Blackbird
Re: [ALPHA] Vivaldi browser Technical Previewsaid by Blackbird:said by Davesnothere:... (4) Need a Customize screen, where elements can be dragged and dropped to a variety of locations, or removed from view ... That's really the key to the whole thing! (And, via Murphy's Law, probably the hardest to achieve due to chromium architectural constraints.) If you can put any browser element anywhere, and especially if functional buttons can be created and added anywhere, the browser will end up being universally customizable - more so even than Olde Opera. And if it can all be made to work smoothly, about half the forum threads over at Vivaldi would drop away. Hmm. On second thought, those threads would merely be replaced with threads about issues neither of us ever imagined existed. That's part of why I have begun to mirror the more recent posts I have been making in each Vivaldi build thread also into THIS thread, though not so far my earlier posts from there. I have not mirrored earlier posts from HERE over to to there, though I HAVE paraphrased some points from them, such as in my last post. But you are right - the Customize screen IS the key, and also for making the currently unwritten various extensions' unique elements (such as buttons) fit in. And regarding Chromium's architectural constraints, the very talented Vivaldi team DID manage to introduce a proper legacy MENU, which AFAIK nobody else has done, especially Google. So there MAY be hope for a 'D&D Customize' screen.  |
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| Davesnothere |
I should maybe add that over the past few months, I have been poking around in the guts of FireFox and other Moz-based browsers, have learned some about how they achieve certain things, and have used this knowledge in order to help me develop a few new extensions and/or to fix/improve some abandoned ones.
It begs the further question as to how Chromium does THEIR coding, and how similar or different it is to how Mozilla does THEIRS. |
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| Davesnothere |
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| Davesnothere |
[Posted to Vivaldi snapshot blog] 'Fuzz' wrote : quote:
Will there be option to have BOOKMARK BAR in the same line as ADDRESS BAR? Why does it has to take up whole line of screen space when it can fit into mostly empty address bar line?
Thanks.
I wrote in reply to Fuzz : quote:
For that matter, I would like to be able to merge the address bar with the Menu bar, for a similar reason.
Sincerely, what is REALLY needed is a Drag-and-Drop Customize screen, where all of the bars and buttons can be placed where the user wants them, much like what FireFox had before Australis UI, and PaleMoon and SeaMonkey still have.
It would bring to Vivaldi many users who liked that feature of not-so-old FireFox.
And once again, we need to have a way to position the TABs bar immediately above the web page content, below the other 'top' bars, which could be included in the D&D screen, or separately.
Thanks
I keep dropping the hints to them....  |
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 BlackbirdBuilt for Speed
Premium Member
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN |
said by Davesnothere:... Sincerely, what is REALLY needed is a Drag-and-Drop Customize screen, where all of the bars and buttons can be placed where the user wants them ... The advantage of full customizability of bars and buttons is that any user can fashion a browser layout in exactly the way that matters to them... and that will almost certainly differ in some respects from how another user chooses to lay out their browser. Positioning that matters critically to me will often be of little interest to somebody else, and vice versa. This is what immediately appealed to me when I first adopted Olde Opera back when... and it's the potential of regaining that in Vivaldi which appeals to so many techno-users today - providing Vivaldi follows through on that potential. There are, of course, many other elements of customization besides appearance or layout, but the same underlying principle applies: make it built-in but customizable/optional, and a user can fashion a browser to exactly match his usage priorities and needs. Instead of users being squeezed into a one-size-fits-nobody mold, the browser can be structured around the individual user. What I still find so surprising is that so few browser makers understand that any more... perhaps it's just another symptom of our current society's pre-packaged, one-or-two sizes, take-it-or-leave-it marketplace. |
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DavesnothereChange is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada
1 edit |
Exactly, and the UI is the first impression which an app gets to make, be it a browser or any other type of app.
That's mostly why I didn't give Chrome a chance, with their arbitrary (now proven by Vivaldi, BTW) choice to not have a legacy menu bar at all, and why I have still not switched to an Australis UI version of FireFox, even though my tests have shown me that CTR can tame it.
Instead, I continue to test PaleMoon, SeaMonkey, and now Vivaldi.
And I also need to mention that I could never go back to IE (IE8 in my case), after a year and a half of enjoying what certain extensions can do for a Moz-based browser this time around, and besides, the UI of IE has also become to inflexible in comparison.
I still do use IE8 for a few specific tasks, and sometimes draw upon the huge collection of 'favorites' which I created thru several years of IE use prior to returning to FireFox.
I had left FireFox when version 4 was too major a change of UI at the time, vs the 3.6 series, which I used until they stopped updating it. |
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BlackbirdBuilt for Speed
Premium Member
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN |
said by Davesnothere:Exactly, and the UI is the first impression which an app gets to make, be it a browser or any other type of app. That's mostly why ... I have still not switched to an Australis UI version of FireFox, even though my tests have shown me that CTR can tame it. ... The existence of extensions like CTR, Roomy Bookmarks, Extended Statusbar, and Tab Mix Plus are largely the reason I first migrated to Firefox when Presto Opera began to petrify. They still do provide much of the customization I need on FF 36 - though for how much longer is anyone's guess, based on the direction FF's developers seem bent on heading with each major version. This is why I put so much hope in Vivaldi. There are a number of things missing in Vivaldi that I definitely want, but it's got enough flex with bookmarking customization (for me, a hyper-critical need) that already it's close enough that I can (and do) use if for almost all of my browsing now, with FF picking up the rest in areas where I need something Vivaldi lacks. |
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 SparrowCrystal Sky
Premium Member
join:2002-12-03
Sachakhand |
to chachazz
Vivaldi shows member email address "public" by default.Not sure if this is the best place to post this, but I lost all positive feelings for Vivaldi when I discovered my 10+ year old email address was made public by default when I registered into the Vivaldi Community.
It took me a few days to understand "why", for the first time in 10+ years, I started receiving spam in an account that previously NEVER had a single piece of spam. This torrent of filthy spam has been escalating and assuming the account will soon become another junk account thanks to Vivaldi's "default" setting of showing registered user's email addresses.
As always, I checked every setting as soon as my registration was confirmed, but did not see anything (until it was too late) that was making my email address public.
Vivaldi may turn out to be a great browser, but it left a very bitter taste in my mouth and any interest that was initially spawned, is now dead.
Shame on you, Vivaldi. |
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BlackbirdBuilt for Speed
Premium Member
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN |
said by Sparrow:... As always, I checked every setting as soon as my registration was confirmed, but did not see anything (until it was too late) that was making my email address public. ... I'm sorry that happened. I registered at Vivaldi right after the forum site opened, and per my usual personal policy, made sure to check and appropriately reset the sharing levels of every piece of data I entered... hence, I've never had any problems with leaked personal data. Unfortunately, their default privacy settings are typically preset in the wrong direction (public) for each item, and that apparently can betray the unwary. The situation isn't improved by their use of tiny icons for setting "sharing" levels to the right of each personal data entry line - unless you happen to try out the icons, their purpose isn't self evident. |
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 sivranVive Vivaldi
Premium Member
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX |
to Sparrow
When did you register? This did not happen on mine. Even when logged in I'm clicking on random user profiles and not seeing emails.  |
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SparrowCrystal Sky
Premium Member
join:2002-12-03
Sachakhand |
Sparrow
Premium Member
2015-Mar-24 10:28 pm
I registered 5 to 6 weeks ago and don't believe by any means that this was a fluke. I obviously missed the setting, which is extraordinarily unusual for me.
If Vivaldi is lax in initially protecting a member's email address, I will never trust them as a browser - first impressions do last. I trusted the site with an email address that not more than 20 people have ever had, every one of them highly security conscious.
Security should be built in by default, not hidden by an obscure icon. |
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DavesnothereChange is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada |
to Blackbird
said by Blackbird:I'm sorry that happened.
I registered at Vivaldi right after the forum site opened.... Agreed, and I registered very early on too, to first try out their WebMail, out of anger at what Yahoo had done to us long-term users, TWICE during 2013. I also registered at that time for their message board, where we initially critiqued their new WebMail operation, much as we are now doing for the browser. I have not bothered with their blog site until now, for the commenting about their browser. It escapes me what security settings I set, without going there and reviewing, but you can be sure that I will do so now. It doesn't seem that I got much more SPAM after registering there, but first I will have to check which eMail address I used as a reference. |
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Davesnothere
2 edits |
After checking my notes about this, I see that Vivaldi WebMail did not require an external eMail address from me in order to register, but their message board forum (a separate process) did.
Initially, I set that to a box where I already get some SPAM, and is filtered by the provider to a degree, so hard to tell whether my SPAM level changed.
Sometime, later, I discovered that an active Vivaldi forum account would let me change the recovery email address - to a fake one - so I did.
My Vivaldi forum/blog settings will still be reviewed. |
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sivranVive Vivaldi
Premium Member
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX |
sivran
Premium Member
2015-Mar-25 7:08 am
Even with my own email set to "everyone" I could not see it publicly displayed anywhere. I couldn't find publicly displayed emails on any users I clicked on, either, including brand new ones. |
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SparrowCrystal Sky
Premium Member
join:2002-12-03
Sachakhand |
to Davesnothere
I was foolish for giving a protected email address - it was my fault, but I still insist a member's privacy should be protected by default, not made public. |
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DavesnothereChange is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada
2 edits |
said by Sparrow:I was foolish for giving a protected email address.
It was my fault, but I still insist a member's privacy should be protected by default, not made public. Agreed ! I checked as promised, and am flabberghasted ! This feels like something which I would have expected from fucking FaceBork ! You will note 2 things in the screengrab : (1) My fake email address is still there - this is good; (2) The setting for it is set to 'Everyone', and I know full well that I would NEVER set my info for a public forum like that, and furthermore insist that I had originally not done so - in fact, the other settings above it (real name and screen name) are still set more restrictively, as I recall setting them. Either Vivaldi made a global change somewhere along the line (like Farcebook has been known to do to their 'sheeple'), OR, when I changed the email address (from what I originally had entered) to the fake one in the screenshot, they reset the privacy default for it at that moment, and I missed it. I will perform some tests, and will report back here with the results. |
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SparrowCrystal Sky
Premium Member
join:2002-12-03
Sachakhand |
Sparrow
Premium Member
2015-Mar-25 10:01 am
I feel exactly the same way and the reason I posted the screenshot. There are so many settings to go through when you register for the community and as Blackbird mentioned previously, the majority are set by default to "Everyone".
Thank you for verifying my claim. |
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DavesnothereChange is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada |
said by Sparrow:I feel exactly the same way and the reason I posted the screenshot. There are so many settings to go through when you register for the community and as Blackbird mentioned previously, the majority are set by default to "Everyone".
Thank you for verifying my claim. You're quite welcome. Bear in mind though, that I have not recently tested what can be seen of my info while logged out of Vivaldi, such as from in another browser, but to ME, a setting of 'everyone' does suggest 'the whole world', as implied by their icon for that setting, and as suggested by the names of the other 3 tighter choices. |
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Davesnothere
1 edit |
OK, here are some test results : On my Vivaldi forum profile, I just now made some changes : Test : (1) I set security for email address to 'only me', clicked 'save & close', and then re-entered the profile screen to see whether it remembered the change. Result : It DID remember - This is good, but does NOT explain how/why it got set to the 'everyone' setting at some point in the past. Test : (2) I changed my email address to another fake one, clicked 'save & close', and then re-entered the profile screen to see whether it remembered the change, and whether it also remembered the security setting for the email address field. Result : It DID remember both - This is good, but again, it does NOT explain how/why it got set to the 'everyone' setting at some point in the past. As a followup : Test : (3) I also set security for my real name to 'only me' (it was set at 'registered users'), clicked 'save & close', and then re-entered the profile screen to see whether it remembered the change. Result : It DID remember, and BTW, I am inclined to say that I instinctively would not have previously set THAT setting to how I first found it set when I checked today. Overall Result : It is inconclusive as to what happened to my past settings. Also, it is unclear whether or not my settings will in the future change again without my expressly changing them. I had thought that I could avoid FartBurp's slimy tactics by going somewhere else, but.... |
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SparrowCrystal Sky
Premium Member
join:2002-12-03
Sachakhand |
Sparrow
Premium Member
2015-Mar-25 11:58 am
It does indeed remember the settings once saved, but, like me, you likely missed the email setting when you registered. I spent at least an hour going through each individual setting after registering and flatly missed the email setting.
Frankly, I never ran across any forum registration that allowed a member's email to be set to "Everyone" by default.
I feel for new people registering in the Community that will not be aware of the "Everyone" setting. The simple solution would be for Vivaldi to tighten up their settings to "Only me" and let members decide what they want to share.
I don't think even FB shows email addresses to "Everyone" by default. |
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BlackbirdBuilt for Speed
Premium Member
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
1 recommendation |
to chachazz
Re: [ALPHA] Vivaldi browser Technical PreviewIn running my own tests, I discovered that if I log out of Vivaldi and then revisit the site "from outside" as a casual visitor, and if I click on my user icon, I (or anyone else) can still access my 'Account' name under the "About" listing for my user information. All other personal data appears to be blocked from viewing, but the problem is that the privacy setting for the user's 'Account' name appears not to function for the forums - I have mine set to "me" only, but it still shows when I access it as a visitor. The answer, of course, is to log in and enter one's profile panel to make sure that 'registered' name itself is appropriately obfuscated if that's what you want. Hence whatever then shows up as your name via "About" will be whatever you want it to be. Based on my tests, most users (especially newbies) apparently do not realize this and leave full personal names (or what appear to be those) intact and publicly accessible... regardless of any icon privacy setting they may have made for their 'Account' name. That's not a good thing, particularly for those living in certain nations.
In none of my tests was I able to see anyone else's eMail address. Whether they're all hidden by the users' icon settings or because the forum no longer shows them, I can't say. |
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DavesnothereChange is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada |
to Sparrow
Re: Vivaldi shows member email address "public" by default.said by Sparrow:It does indeed remember the settings once saved, but, like me, you likely missed the email setting when you registered....
....I don't think even FB shows email addresses to "Everyone" by default. I'm not sure what FB currently shows, but I categorically PROMISE you all that I DID at some point in the past set my external email address to the most private setting in my Vivaldi forum/blog profile, and either they deliberately changed it, or a change to the forum software changed the defaults, and they missed that change when vetting the software revision. I'm very picky about that sort of thing, and I also recall that in their forum, the method of setting security attributes was discussed by others before me, during our initial analysis of the UI's of both their message board and the Vivaldi WebMail, which, fortunately are not the same login. |
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| Davesnothere |
to Blackbird
Re: [ALPHA] Vivaldi browser Technical Previewsaid by Blackbird:In running my own tests.... Thanks for that. I will be performing similar tests, and will post an update here afterward. |
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Davesnothere
1 recommendation |
With my current Vivaldi forum/blog privacy settings, I visited the team blog and clicked on my screen name in one of my posts, and here is what I see from IE8 while logged out. Clicking on the Show Full Profile link changes the URL, but the page content remains the same. It doesn't explain what happened before, but it looks secure now. |
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SparrowCrystal Sky
Premium Member
join:2002-12-03
Sachakhand |
to Davesnothere
Re: Vivaldi shows member email address "public" by default.Now you have me wondering... where are the revision dates available?
Maybe the setting was changed during a revision. As mentioned, I registered approximately 5 - 6 weeks ago and the spam began about a week after that.
I posted in the Vivaldi community, Wishlist for Privacy and Security Features, on 23 Feb 2015 - over a month ago - suggesting the setting be changed.
"Picky" isn't the word for me - I have literally ended real-life friendships over people sharing my email address without my permission. |
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DavesnothereChange is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada
1 edit |
said by Sparrow:Now you have me wondering... where are the revision dates available?
Maybe the setting was changed during a revision. As mentioned, I registered approximately 5 - 6 weeks ago and the spam began about a week after that.
I posted in the Vivaldi community, Wishlist for Privacy and Security Features, on 23 Feb 2015 - over a month ago - suggesting the setting be changed.
"Picky" isn't the word for me - I have literally ended real-life friendships over people sharing my email address without my permission. When I said 'picky', I was being polite. (I am a Canadian, y'know) I established almost all of my Vivaldi settings during 2013, when everything at Vivaldi was brand new, and I know that some changes were made to how their forum software behaved back then, and others made after I had given up on certain changes not being made and had stopped participating much there [check my post log ], but noticed that they had when I revisited upon the release of the browser (or maybe sometime randomly during the interim). Alas, I have no idea how to determine all of the changes which were made to their forum/blog client, and when, though I'm quite sure that some were made. BTW, their WebMail client is of respectable lineage (name is 'RoundCube'), is flexible, works well, and IIRC is open source. My feeling is that their forum/blog client might be an in-house product. |
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SparrowCrystal Sky
Premium Member
join:2002-12-03
Sachakhand
1 edit |
Sparrow
Premium Member
2015-Mar-25 1:51 pm
Having numerous Southeast Asian friends, my excuse is usually, "I'm American; I'm allowed to be rude." I try to remain polite, but privacy violations bring out the beast in me. The only thing I get now is: "Access to this profile has been restricted for privacy reasons. You may need to log in and be a friend of this user before you can see it." Perhaps my feathered friend can check the settings for me? (As to how settings appear to "Friends".) |
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DavesnothereChange is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada |
to Sparrow
said by Sparrow:....If Vivaldi is lax in initially protecting a member's email address, I will never trust them as a browser - first impressions do last.... I tend to share that feeling, though other factors (such as UI flexibility) will determine first to what degree I may end up utilizing the Vivaldi browser, as a review of this thread will reveal in detail. |
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| Davesnothere |
to Sparrow
said by Sparrow:....The only thing I get now is: quote:
"Access to this profile has been restricted for privacy reasons.
You may need to log in and be a friend of this user before you can see it."
Perhaps my feathered friend can check the settings for me? (As to how settings appear to "Friends".) If you are seeing what my last screenshot shows, then I would say that you are OK. Can we do a search by username on Vivaldi ? |
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BlackbirdBuilt for Speed
Premium Member
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
1 recommendation |
to Davesnothere
Re: [ALPHA] Vivaldi browser Technical Previewsaid by Davesnothere:... With my current Vivaldi forum/blog privacy settings, I visited the team blog and clicked on my screen name in one of my posts, and here is what I see from IE8 while logged out.
Clicking on the Show Full Profile link changes the URL, but the page content remains the same.
It doesn't explain what happened before, but it looks secure now. Aha!! When I went back in (yet again!), I realized I'd set (or it was defaulted) my profile itself to "Everyone"... not that it presented any risk, since I use a pseudonym for registration, and it still required a log-in to change anything or see anything besides the Account name. Anyhow, I tightened up the setting and, indeed, now I get a message like you posted. I'm not too thrilled with having to need a 75-page operator's manual to fully and properly set up privacy controls in that forum... but perhaps that's yet another quirk of the Kunena Forum product itself that Vivaldi is using - or how Vivaldi is implementing their unique instantiation of the Kunena forum. |
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