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fixrman
From a broken heart to a hole in the sky
Premium Member
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA
·Verizon FiOS

fixrman to paintref

Premium Member

to paintref

Re: [Help] Car Battery Advice...

A multimeter is only one part of the equation. Voltage could be fine, but there may not be sufficient available current (amperage) to crank the engine. It is possible to have a battery that has 13.6 volts static but not have enough capacity to crank.

What I am saying is, just because the battery has 13.6 volts and cranks the vehicle does not mean that it will continue to do so for a long time. Without some way of testing capacity, it is really just a guess. Even for me.

umwut
@optonline.net

umwut to rody_44

Anon

to rody_44
said by rody_44:

Yea a military vehicle will do it. Little Detroit by any chance? Probably cummins but man them older Detroits bring back memories. Ide love to get a hold of one of them when they used the Detroits. I dont think the detroits had glow plugs tho so im guessing yours is a Cummins. I know the system well. A lot of older firetrucks use the same setup.

6.2 diesel it's just a militarized chevy pickup... 12/24 volt, blackout lights, gun mounts in the cab... 5/4 ton rated... tie downs, braced frame, pintle hitch where the license plate goes... 4.56 gears... etc but almost everything interchanges with a normal 84 (regardless of military year ex 85 and 86) chevy.

Mine happens to be a m1028, locked rear, lsd front... stupid np 208 t-case... I have another 28 outside however with a factory 205.

Only point was age is not the only factor in battery life, and as already covered you can't test a battery with corrosion, as that could cause the same issues I mentioned, starting/charger and show a low number when tested...

Clean the thing and test it... if getting a harbor fright tester, if you have a good multimeter, maybe hook that up as well... idk how much i'd trust the meter on the HF tester...

mattmag

join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois

3 recommendations

mattmag to Boooost

to Boooost
said by Boooost :

Every bad battery I've ever had tested just fine.

Then A: You don't have a bad battery or B: You don't know how to test one.

Please keep such whimsical advice to yourself, thanks.
lawsoncl
join:2008-10-28
Spirit Lake, ID

lawsoncl to umwut

Member

to umwut
said by umwut :

idk how much i'd trust the meter on the HF tester.

The HF cheap multimeters aren't too bad. The case and leads are fairly low quality, but they're usually within 1% of my Fluke on voltage readings. I bought a bunch when they had them on sale for $1.49. They're nice to throw one in the toolkit in each car and give away to friends when they want to borrow a meter.

Boooost
@optonline.net

Boooost to mattmag

Anon

to mattmag
said by mattmag:

said by Boooost :

Every bad battery I've ever had tested just fine.

Then A: You don't have a bad battery or B: You don't know how to test one.

Please keep such whimsical advice to yourself, thanks.

No, the shop I took it to (perhaps) didn't know how to test it. Or maybe the testers are just not all that reliable.

Bottom line: Car doesn't start + battery >= 4 years old = save yourself a bunch of time and effort and simply replace the battery.

mattmag

join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois

1 recommendation

mattmag

said by Boooost :

Bottom line: Car doesn't start + battery >= 4 years old = save yourself a bunch of time and effort and simply replace the battery.

Absurd. That is guessing, period. Replacing parts for the sake of replacing parts is stuffing money down a rat hole. Find a shop that knows how to properly diagnose and repair vehicles.

Boooost
@151.190.254.x

Boooost

Anon

So you're going to keep the old battery so in what, 2 years you have a 6 year old battery? Yeah, that will work fine when it's -10 F. It's people like you that end up needing the jumper cables. Might as well replace the battery while you're working on the problem, and 95+% of the time that will fix it.

Last year, wife's 4 year old Honda didn't start because it was -10 F and the battery was, guess what, 4 years old. Replaced it at the dealer's for less than $120. No diagnosis needed. Just told them to replace the battery. Works every time.

Note that I'm not saying to proactively replace the battery. But if the car doesn't start and the battery is 4 years old or older, just replace the damn thing. You'll need to do it in a year or two anyway!
fixrman
From a broken heart to a hole in the sky
Premium Member
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

fixrman

Premium Member

Wait a minute. There are too many variables to say just outright replace a 4 year-old battery when the vehicle won't crank.

Perhaps something was left on and the battery is just discharged. A full recharge later may reveal the battery has 85% of original capacity. I won't replace that one, especially if I get it to pass a load test twice and the bounce back voltage is good.

If the alternator belt was slipping and the battery was not getting charged after cranking or during use, recharging may be sufficient.

If the vehicle hasn't been used in a while the battery may be low on charge. The battery may be low on charge due to corroded terminals.

Replacing a battery solely due to age is a waste of money. Perhaps it gives you peace of mind; even though many batteries last only 3-5 years, some last longer. Testing an older battery would be prudent.

If the battery voltage went to zero, then yes - I agree with you. If the core voltage stayed above 2V however, the battery may be rechargeable and still be satisfactory.
said by Boooost :

It's people like you that end up needing the jumper cables.

Yeah, sure. Right. Whatever. Let me know where you live so I can set up my parts store next to your house.

Boooost
@151.190.254.x

Boooost

Anon

And I suppose you don't replace your spark plugs at 100,000 miles because they might still last a while longer. Maybe you could follow the same strategy with your timing belt.
fixrman
From a broken heart to a hole in the sky
Premium Member
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA
·Verizon FiOS

fixrman

Premium Member

I'd suggest the argument presented on your part is to try to make yourself look a little bit right. The hair-splitter's convention is just down the hall, to the left. My position on recommended maintenance items - timing belts specifically - is pretty well known.

I don't make it a habit to spend other people's money needlessly. If a battery tests fine, it stays in the car. On top of that, a new battery does not guarantee the vehicle will crank. A new battery can be defective. As a professional, if I advise people to spend money (especially in this forum) on car maintenance, people like to say that it isn't necessary, a "rip off" (a hackneyed and trite, incorrect term).

Your spark plug analogy is irrelevant as is the timing belt; they are both normal replacement items as called out in the Owner Manual whereas the battery is as needed. Same goes for a radiator, wiper blades and ball joints: They are replaced when a problem presents or their performance is a problem, not solely because of age.

Come to my garage, there's plenty we could replace on your vehicle because "you'll need to do it in a year or two anyway." {rolls eyes}

Boooost
@151.190.254.x

Boooost

Anon

A battery is a normal replacement item. A radiator should last the life of the car barring physical damage to the vehicle.

Scenario (this happened): 4 year old battery in car. Temperature +10F, car cranks slowly but starts. Next morning, -10F, car doesn't crank long enough to start; starts easily when jumped. Next morning car in heated garage, car starts like it was summertime. Owner is NOT a moron and did NOT leave accessories on. Would you even bother to test the battery? And if it tested OK, would you keep it knowing the car failed to start in cold weather?

Please note that I *NEVER* said a battery should be replaced solely because of age. I actually said the opposite.

lolcomeon
@optonline.net

lolcomeon to fixrman

Anon

to fixrman
I left my interior light on one night, then the day, then saw it the next night...

Truck hardly started the next day, I can tell you it would never have started if it was not 24 volt and kinda warm out (only one battery had a drain on it the other was still full) the batteries at the time were 4 years old, under you're plan, I'd be out $250-300 for batteries...

And I still use those same batteries now... and with a plow pump beating them as well...

Kinda OT but funny...

Went to the gas station in the tow truck

Guy can't start his car, says battery is stone dead we hook up jumper cables go into the gas station for a min... come out, dead still won't start, but we also are not getting any sparks from the cables...

Cut to the chase, car was in gear... guy was there, idk how long...

So you never know if it is something as simple as that, or a light was on, door was not closed all the way, iffy alternator...

The only thing however I can say for replacing the battery after 4 years is...

I am all for it, if someone checked the voltage car running with a multi meter... (cheap enough to go buy one)

By the time someone paid diag fees for the battery and it was just dead... could be the cost of the replacement...

AND it is a ware item... they go bad, they lose output over time... etc.

Just because the manufacturer does not have a set replacement means nothing.

The t-belt is set to be replaced long before it will go bad, and 100k spark plugs anyone smart does them BEFORE so they come out...

BMW's "lifetime" fluids I know it has been posted here how anyone who wants to keep the car replaces it against the manufacturers specs...

So just because the battery aint in there... don't mean shit... hell the big push to lifetime fluids and extended oil change is to lower the "cost" of ownership numbers...

Boooost
@optonline.net

Boooost

Anon

said by lolcomeon :

under you're plan, I'd be out $250-300 for batteries...

What part of "Owner is NOT a moron and did NOT leave accessories on" don't you understand?

lolcomeon
@optonline.net

1 recommendation

lolcomeon

Anon

Well idk, I don't consider myself a moron... but I left the light on...

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

1 recommendation

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

said by lolcomeon :

Well idk, I don't consider myself a moron... but I left the light on...

Even that happens to professionals. It is called the human experience.

And of course there is the auto headlight shutoff relay on some vehicles that after working flawlessly for a decade or even a couple of decades fails in the on mode and never turns off the lights after a exit, draining the battery dead over night which is very surprising to you the next morning....... Does it happen a lot? Thankfully no, but it does happen.
fixrman
From a broken heart to a hole in the sky
Premium Member
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA
·Verizon FiOS

fixrman to lolcomeon

Premium Member

to lolcomeon
said by lolcomeon :

at the time were 4 years old, under you're plan, I'd be out $250-300 for batteries...

What is my plan? I don't advocate replacing batteries just because they are 4 years old.

Sort of sounds like you are bolstering my position for me. I don't needlessly replace batteries. I test them to see if they need replacement. While a multimeter is in some cases sufficient, it is not a definitive way of assessing a battery's longevity - a DMM is only measuring voltage.

lolooops
@optonline.net

lolooops

Anon

Ya hit reply to the wrong person =p
fixrman
From a broken heart to a hole in the sky
Premium Member
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA

fixrman

Premium Member

Recheck the thread there, kemosabe.
daveinpoway
Premium Member
join:2006-07-03
Poway, CA

daveinpoway to Doctor Olds

Premium Member

to Doctor Olds
One of my cars has this automatic lights-off feature, but I never use it- I always turn the light switch to the "Off" position when parking the car.

My other car has a lights-on alarm, so it is hard to forget to turn off the light switch there.
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