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cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

cableties

Premium Member

[Electrical] Service upgrade - ballpark cost

I'm looking at home to buy, built in '40s.
The service is 100amp and over used (inspector warns that it exceeds 25% load).

SO if I want a new, Square-D panel, 200amp (to have a subpanel to garage for tools...tablesaw, compressor), what should I expect is cost?

New service drop (inspector found the cable was braided and inside the wall, not code/safe).
Panel w/enough breakers (oven, fridge, d/w, dryer, appliances,...). Furnace and hw heater are oil (I might update the furnace to NG).

Just a ballpark. I maybe getting a license electrician for estimate (depends on attorney and concessions), but would like to be informed of either expecting too much or getting too little.

Ugh. Not a bad home. Needs TLC and $$$$$

LazMan
Premium Member
join:2003-03-26
Beverly Hills, CA

LazMan

Premium Member

No way to know, based on what you're giving us here...

Location?
Aerial or underground service?
Existing panel flush-mounted or surface?

2 grand to 2500 for a WAG.. Could be more or less depending on the above factors, and more...

fluffybunny
@cipherkey.com

fluffybunny to cableties

Anon

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$6500 is what i was quoted when i asked.

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

cableties to LazMan

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@ LazMan: NJ (US), Aerial, existing is surface mounted.
Thanks!
nyrrule27
join:2007-12-06
Howell, NJ

nyrrule27 to LazMan

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My house had a 100 amp panel in the basement. When I bought my house I had a 200 amp panel put in the garage and had the basement panel upgraded to I think 150 amp panel ( I went from 10 breaker slots to 15) the basement one acts as a sub panel. Cost me about $2000 in nj and I knew the guy.

hortnut
Huh?
join:2005-09-25
PDX Metro

hortnut to cableties

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I am in the Seattle/Tacoma area and I am upgrading a Zinsco 200 Amp panel. The1600 sq foot Condo was built in late 1973. Service comes in underground. Inspector pointed out its failings when my folks bought the place in 2004. It is flush mounted and surrounded with drywall, is in the garage with very good access inside and outside.

I have had 2 Estimates so far:
$1866.48 with Siemens
$1563.45 with Square D

Both include all fees, permits and whatnot. Also both include upgrading the grounding to meet today's code and lowering the height of the top of the panel to meet code. 1/3 to 1/2 of the Circuits come in from the top, so that adds to the cost. So provisions/extra costs for splicing needed to be included. As well as extra costs with dealing with the unpainted drywall being cut and pieced back in after it is lowered.

Both are turnkey. They come out in the morning and leave with power and new panel operational that night.

For those hung up on 100A vs 200A. Every house I have lived in throughout the PNW since 1965 has had 200 Amp panels. A great deal of our Power is/was from Hydroelectric, especially in the past when our population was lower. At one time an "All Electric" House was a big marketing thing here.

Area I am in, also has a higher cost of living.

ddrant
join:2010-03-02
Womelsdorf, PA

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It's probably variable by the area what an electrician will charge. In my area electricians and plumbers tend to be (in my opinion) very reasonable.

I went from 100amp to a 200amp Square-D panel about 5 years ago. Ran me $1200 everything included.

The upgrade was necessitated by my wanting to get a heat pump installed to give me air conditioning and take some load off of my forced air oil-fired furnace during the winter (cut my fuel oil use by about half, while only increasing my electric bill by around $20/month).

dennismurphy
Put me on hold? I'll put YOU on hold
Premium Member
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ

dennismurphy to cableties

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I replace a F-P panel in my last home with a Siemens 200a panel for $1600 about 13 years ago. I'd expect it to be in the $2k-$2500 range listed below nowadays.

But it all really depends on the work involved! Where in NJ?

Pher9999
join:2011-07-06
Saucier, MS

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Around here in Southern NY, they quote between $1500-$2000 for the swap and outside work. It seems to be a standard process for them.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

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MVM

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What, exactly, does the inspector mean by "exceeds 25% load"?
The outside service drop is almost always owned by the utility. I think you might be using the wrong terminology here.

Do you actually need a 200 amp service? Oil heat and HW on a normal size home, the answer is usually no, 100A is sufficient.
While the price difference is relatively small between 100 and 200 in comparison, it may save you $200.

I wouldn't get hung up on the Square-D brand, or any other brand for that matter. SqD used to be premium, I now rank them lower than both Siemens and Cutler. I wouldn't lose any sleep with a Cutler, Challenger, Murray, Siemens, or SqD panel in my house.

I would look at $1,500 - 2,200 for a simple overhead replacement with permits / inspection, new conductors, new mast, Milbank socket, ground rod, water bond, and Siemens 30/40 main breaker panel. The caveats being: No roof penetration, panel must be directly at service entrance, unfinished path to water bond.
That price would be about $200 less if you stuck with 100A.

If you really want to know, pay an electrician $100 for an hour of his time to come out and reassess what the home inspector found.
18189353 (banned)
join:2014-10-28

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I just had it quoted out in New England at $1,850 with a Siemens panel. I'd have to agree with the people saying $1,500-$2,000 on average.

cowboyro
Premium Member
join:2000-10-11
CT

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6 years ago I've been quoted some $3200 and $3000 respectively including running few additional circuits for a new HVAC system. That included new service drop. 200A GE panel in both instances. This is CT so prices are a bit higher than in other places.
joewho
Premium Member
join:2004-08-20
Dundee, IL

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I have a question..reading the replies, this is just for the new box and the outside work. What about an older house that would need dedicated circuits in the kitchen or a house that has 14 or 16g wiring. Would upgrading to 200a from 100a be a factor in that? Is that one of the reasons the prices vary? Thanks.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

1 recommendation

nunya

MVM

That's a different job. Changing out the service is one thing; re-wiring a house is another.
While they are not mutually exclusive, usually you only do both on a gut rehab.
Because of the permitting, inspections, and power company involvement that is required, a service change is usually and all day, one day, event.
The size of the service (100A, 200A, 320A, etc...) is determined by a load calculation and nothing else.
There is nothing wrong with 14 ga wire. The only time I've ever seen 16 ga wire is knob & tube in a barn (one time) or somebody using wire they weren't supposed to in a house (speaker wire to receptacles under a trailer). We'll say it's extremely uncommon.

Prices vary based on location - East or West Coast will typically be more expensive than the Midwest or South. Permit fees vary wildly. I have two cities within 25 miles of each other. One permit is $25 and the other $185 for the EXACT same job and scope of work. The cost of materials vary. Some contractors buy stuff at Lowe's Depot Menard's, while smart contractors buy from a supply house.
Some people value their time differently. An unlicensed hack with no insurance or training may charge $30/hr to do the work. A licensed professional with proper training, equipment, and insurance coverages may charge $90/hr.

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

1 edit

cableties

Premium Member

Click for full size
Update:
I paid a licensed electrician to inspect and quote was ~$4k for work:
-drop on side of house to panel (it is hazardous as the worn, cracked, braided wires run through roofing!). See pict
-replace panel (100A) with 200A (its overloaded and inadequate gauge wiring.) New meter box/move.
-all work to tie in main
extra items were to add GFCI to baths and kitchen, remove illegal connections, etc.

He would just do the drop and panel for $2500. The rest can be done later. I can remove the old, illegal work "handyman" specials.
jp16
join:2010-05-04
united state

jp16

Member

If you have not bought the house yet and unless there is something that the place that is a "must have" you may want to reconsider your offer or even buying it. I have one of those houses that, in retrospect, I wish I did not buy. The electrical system is all hacked up, I have been having it fixed as I find it or when something comes up. Alot if it was/is in ceilings and walls. I looked at upgrading my panel and had gotten quotes up to $10k. My service is underground and the transformer is 2 houses away, about 250'. The service is too small for 200 amp and it is direct burial cable in the transformer. It is unknown if there is conduit, does not look like there is.

If you realy like the place and are hung on the 200 amp service, amend the offer to escrow funds for an upgrade/repair. At least the repair of the service drop. Depending on what is wrong with it, the current owner may be obligated to repair it now ,or at least disclose it, seeing that they have been made aware of what is wrong. IF I was selling the house I would escrow the funds to repair the drop at least.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
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join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

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My advice on this house (unless its a sellers market in your area aka housing shortage) is run don't walk.

A house with electrical issues is nothing but trouble.

You don't want to sink money fixing it once you move in, I'd rather enjoy the new house once I sign on the dotted line.

The owner may be selling because it needs repairs.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO

nunya to cableties

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I'd make the existing owner fix it. If they don't want to do it, then lower your offer.
18189353 (banned)
join:2014-10-28

4 edits

18189353 (banned)

Member

said by nunya:

I'd make the existing owner fix it. If they don't want to do it, then lower your offer.

You never want to let the existing owner fix anything on a property for sale. They will always do it as cheaply as possible as their goal is to net the most cash. You request a closing credit and handle it yourself. In this case I'd ask for a $4,000 closing credit to correct it.

Just an FYI on why you do it as a closing credit. The house is worth the same with or without this problem. The appraisal will be unaffected so the bank financing is tied to the sale price. If you buy the house for $4,000 less you need to come up with that out of pocket to fix. If you get a closing credit you've financed the $4,000 over 30 years. I know I can make at minimum 6-8% on my cash so anytime I can get money at a lower interest rate I do it. Put your money to work where it does the most. This way you'll get a check at closing for the $4,000 so you can pay the electrician with nothing extra out of pocket. If you have the $4,000 in cash invest it in the market or use it for other repairs/upgrades. In addition most of the time you discover this stuff after you've made an offer so rather than starting the process over you just do a closing credit so you can keep moving forward.

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

cableties

Premium Member

Thanks for all the advice!
I understand most concerns and warnings. Now my reasoning:

The property is a solid home (what 70yr home doesn't need some repair) but needs tlc. Off the bat, it is worth more than selling price (location location location). I can do minor stuff (outlets, runs, fixtures...) but not a service or panel.
It is 3 miles from my work. My current drive is 23 miles each way and takes up to 2hrs sometimes to get home (traffic issues, congestion, accidents, weather).
The taxes will be much higher (than where I live now) but that is the price for convenience, location, and other.

The electrician was very good (you can tell with his conversation he wasn't condescending, knew his trade, kept a clean truck, and follow up in 24hrs) and I trusted his advice (the drop from the pole was aerial and rated to handle atleast 200A and I doubt I would need it, but its a good resale point too). House is only ~1600sqft but the detached garage would be nice to have some shop tools that need 20A circuits (say a 80A or 100A subpanel). Since the range may be replaced with gas range (30A oven), and dryer could also become gas (get rid of the electric one), 200A may be overkill. But allows for multisplit AC in future (will use window units for now). Still, the minimum is 150A panel so the 100A has to go.

So I am waiting to see if they get their own electrician, etc. A learning experience and stress.
Update: radon report in, needs remediation. Sigh.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO

2 recommendations

nunya

MVM

Clean truck = insane (probably psychopath).

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

cableties

Premium Member

Front. didnt see back of panel truck. LOL!

Fir_Na_Tine
Time to get riggity riggity wrecked son
Premium Member
join:2001-01-03
South Jersey

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said by cableties:

A learning experience and stress.
Update: radon report in, needs remediation. Sigh.

Oh the joys of the home buying process and finally ownership. Sometimes its a nightmare sometimes not but always a challenge.

John Galt6
Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp

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said by cableties:

Front. didnt see back of panel truck. LOL!

The front is usually the worst...empty coffee cups and dead lunch bags.

Caution thereby advised!

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

said by John Galt6:

said by cableties:

Front. didnt see back of panel truck. LOL!

The front is usually the worst...empty coffee cups and dead lunch bags.

Caution thereby advised!

Or worse; empty beer cans and a full ashtray.

I'd take the dead McDonald's bags and the empty Starbucks cups.