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AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan
join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.

AkFubar

Member

CRTC says no to Internet fast and slow lanes: Geist

Published today in Toronto Star: »www.thestar.com/business ··· =twitter

EUS
Kill cancer
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
canada

EUS

Premium Member

If that logic was extended...... perhaps this can be used to open the way for me to buy 'fib(e)' from a 3rd party.

nanook
MVM
join:2007-12-02

nanook to AkFubar

MVM

to AkFubar
said by Michael Geist :

In a classic David vs. Goliath showdown, the complaint was filed by Ben Klass, a University of Manitoba graduate student, who noted that Bell offers a $5 per month mobile TV service that allows users to watch dozens of Bell-owned or licensed television channels for ten hours without affecting their data cap...

Yet despite the endorsement of the principles of net neutrality, the decision did not apply the 2009 rules, which were viewed as inapplicable. Instead, the Commission went back to first principles to conclude that the service was simply an undue preference.

That points to an evolving net neutrality framework in Canada that includes analysis of both the net neutrality rules and the principles of undue preference.

So who's going to be David and argue "undue preference" over Bhell's waiver of dry loop fees to its own DSL subscribers but not to ISPs who wholesale Bhell's DSL?

Or how about the stop-sell on Bhell POTS offered through TekSavvy to existing Bhell POTS subscribers while happily accepting POTS orders from competitors' subscribers?
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning

Member

said by nanook:

So who's going to be David and argue "undue preference" over Bhell's waiver of dry loop fees to its own DSL subscribers but not to ISPs who wholesale Bhell's DSL?

It could be argued that they're just rolling the dry loop price in to the retail price.
said by nanook:

Or how about the stop-sell on Bhell POTS offered through TekSavvy to existing Bhell POTS subscribers while happily accepting POTS orders from competitors' subscribers?

That is a self-imposed stop sell on the part of TekSavvy.

jmck
formerly 'shaded'
join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON

jmck to nanook

Member

to nanook
I don't pay a dryloop fee on my Start VDSL2 service. it's bundled/included in the package and is still cheaper than Bell's packages.
mr weather
Premium Member
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON

mr weather to HeadSpinning

Premium Member

to HeadSpinning
said by HeadSpinning:

That is a self-imposed stop sell on the part of TekSavvy.

Why would a business voluntarily "self-impose" stopping taking on new customers? Sounds more like Bell "voluntold" them to stop selling.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning

Member

said by mr weather:

Why would a business voluntarily "self-impose" stopping taking on new customers? Sounds more like Bell "voluntold" them to stop selling.

Residential Wholesale Lines are forborne from regulation. Nobody voluntold them to enter in to an agreement that had penalties for converting Bell customers.
GoRaptors
join:2011-07-22
London, ON

GoRaptors

Member

Wait, what? Could you elaborate on that point please?

I would dearly love to get rid of Bell & switch to Teksavvy for POTS, but I can't.

Are you saying the agreement they signed is penalizing them for making a profit? Or am I misunderstanding? Thanks!
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

Bell didn't like Teksavvy converting Bell's $40+/month POTS customers to Teksavvy's $25/month POTS customers on a resold basis.

Bell's gross profit for each POTS users dropped from something like $37/month or so down to something in the order of $15-$18, so Bell put a stop to Teksavvy reselling POTS.
GoRaptors
join:2011-07-22
London, ON

GoRaptors

Member

That sucks and is totally unfair...:(
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

So go with VOIP. It's cheaper.
GoRaptors
join:2011-07-22
London, ON

GoRaptors

Member

It's fine, you answered the question. Thank you!

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt to MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

Bell didn't like Teksavvy converting Bell's $40+/month POTS customers to Teksavvy's $25/month POTS customers on a resold basis.

Bell's gross profit for each POTS users dropped from something like $37/month or so down to something in the order of $15-$18, so Bell put a stop to Teksavvy reselling POTS.

You can still order TekSavvy POTS, just with a new number or port a non-Bell number.

Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium Member
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON

Teddy Boom

Premium Member

said by HiVolt:

You can still order TekSavvy POTS, just with a new number or port a non-Bell number.

Bizarrely, TekSavvy is now saying they can't take over a Bell phone line at all, even if you change the number. Been this way for a couple of months at least..
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning to MaynardKrebs

Member

to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

Bell's gross profit for each POTS users dropped from something like $37/month or so down to something in the order of $15-$18, so Bell put a stop to Teksavvy reselling POTS.

The penalties for converting existing Bell customers to resold was in place when the contract started. From the outset, the Wholesale POTS program was supposed to target only NEW or Cable customers.

nanook
MVM
join:2007-12-02

nanook

MVM

said by HeadSpinning:

The penalties for converting existing Bell customers to resold was in place when the contract started. From the outset, the Wholesale POTS program was supposed to target only NEW or Cable customers.

So that's hardly "a self-imposed stop sell on the part of TekSavvy" (your words.)

Rather it was an "undue preference" (CRTC's words) from the outset. Why should it matter if Bhell forced TekSavvy to help them "screw" Bhell's existing customers from the outset of the contract or imposed it on them afterwards? It's still an anti-competitive practice. (BTW I switched to TSI POTS not because it's cheaper but because I prefer to deal with someone who really cares rather than with Bhell's Customer Abuse department.)

And if it's in the contract then it's in writing. So it's not some sort of "wink-wink, nudge-nudge" tacit understanding. In light of the CRTC's recent decision perhaps TekSavvy should reopen the matter, perhaps by escalating to the CRTC. (Or leak a copy of the contract to a "David." )
mr weather
Premium Member
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON

mr weather to HeadSpinning

Premium Member

to HeadSpinning
said by HeadSpinning:

The penalties for converting existing Bell customers to resold was in place when the contract started. From the outset, the Wholesale POTS program was supposed to target only NEW or Cable customers.

Interesting. My parents ported out their Bell number to Primus POTS a few years ago and had no issues. It must be a recent thing? Or only Teksavvy was caught up in it?
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning

Member

said by mr weather:

Interesting. My parents ported out their Bell number to Primus POTS a few years ago and had no issues. It must be a recent thing? Or only Teksavvy was caught up in it?

Your parents are then on Primus POTS, not Bell POTS resold by Primus. Two different things. When Primus provides dialtone, they do it two different ways. If they are co-located in the CO with their own equipment, then there are no restrictions.

If they don't have their own network in that location, they will re-sell Bell POTS and have the same restrictions and issues that any other reseller of Bell POTS would have.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

2 recommendations

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

So Bell is happy to accept a 'wholesale' price for a line if that 'new' service comes at the expense of another provider, yet they aren't happy to accept the same number of dollars for a POTS line if it comes at their expense (ie. a TSI converts an existing Bell customer to TSI POTS).

Yes, it does smack of undue preference and interference in the market.

Break up Bell.