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why60loss
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join:2012-09-20

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why60loss

Premium Member

Windows 8 on laptop embedded key no longer there

Has this happened to anyone else. My talks with T3 Microsoft global Escalations seems to have boiled down to not getting the matter resolved.

The basic issue: Unlike Windows 7 and before, Windows 8 hides the product key in the system and you more or less need to hack it to even try to get the key out. The key went missing after a system restore from the OEM HDD. Repeated the process at lest 5 times to ensure that the restore wasn't why the key didn't work.

Background on what I did to try to fix the issue:

I have called standard tech support at the OEM 4 times, they say it's Microsoft's issue to deal with. I called Microsoft 3 times and was told the OEM needs to fix it.

So I sent Microsoft a letter over E-mail after calling there Legal department on the matter. Got T3 support, management said no key for you.

I have tried everything there is to get the key and nothing works as the MSDM table is gone.

So to be clear all hardware is 100% fine, the restore went fine other than Windows 8 calling me a dirty copy right infringer because the Microsoft server won't activate it because it no longer has a key. So this is a case of M$ being a total jerk at the lest or possibly it is actively trying to fraud customers into buying windows 8 twice for the same PC due to poor sales.

This thread is also here for those who think the system will safely remember the key, you better think again unless you want to pay for windows again. If not, then extracting the key is a must even if you have to hack the living daylights out of it.

Just the process to look up all the details on how this system works was a real pain in the butt and to me feels like they are hopping to con customers out of the products they paid for by hiding the keys deep in the system.

Two links below for others to try to get product keys:

»dellwindowsreinstallatio ··· em-only/

»neosmart.net/blog/2014/w ··· ey-tool/

Update: Microsoft called me, said they wanted Samsung to give them the product key that came with the laptop. But I had to contact them so I sent a E-mail to the USA CEO department of Samsung corp on this issue as low level support kept jerking me around just like at Microsoft.

aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA

aurgathor

Member

Did you reformat your HD at some point, or did you remove a partition?

rfhar
The World Sport, Played In Every Country
Premium Member
join:2001-03-26
Buicktown,Mi

rfhar to why60loss

Premium Member

to why60loss
Thanks For the link. If one has a computer built for him by a local store this problem can occur also. It did for me. I ha to take the computer back to the store to reactivate after a reinstall of Windows 7.
rfhar

rfhar to why60loss

Premium Member

to why60loss
I got the following error on my Win7 desktop. Anyone tell me what it means. Like what is a MSDM table?

Unable to open MSDM table!
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

dave to why60loss

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to why60loss
said by why60loss:

Repeated the process at lest 5 times to ensure that the restore wasn't why the key didn't work.

Doesn't this demonstrate that the restore was why the key didn't work?

I assume this is some sort of 'restore to original configuration' option? In which case, though I only dimly understand the way this OEM stuff works, I suppose that the restore image failed to include the files that relate this installation to whatever 'key' material is stored in the BIOS.

Tator
@charter.com

Tator to why60loss

Anon

to why60loss
These kinds of system failures confirm my distrust in system restore and windows backups and is the reason I always create and verify a backup image of any system to a separate drive, usually an external drive, using Acronis, Clonezilla, Seagate Discwizard or other imaging software. All one need do in case of these failures (or fix other Windows problems) is to restore a verified image using the restore feature of the backup program. It takes merely 5 minutes to create, 3 minutes to verify and 5 minutes to restore images of my current Windows 8 system using Seagate Discwizard. Note any image should be verified because an image that fails verification can not be restored, and you wouldn't want to discover it can't be restored when you need it restored.

gzt7d8
Aliens live amongst us
Premium Member
join:2001-07-13
Traverse City, MI

gzt7d8 to why60loss

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to why60loss
Have you tried this command at the prompt line?

powershell "(Get-WmiObject -query ‘select * from SoftwareLicensingService’).OA3xOriginalProductKey"

why60loss
Premium Member
join:2012-09-20

why60loss to dave

Premium Member

to dave
said by dave:

said by why60loss:

Repeated the process at lest 5 times to ensure that the restore wasn't why the key didn't work.

Doesn't this demonstrate that the restore was why the key didn't work?

I assume this is some sort of 'restore to original configuration' option? In which case, though I only dimly understand the way this OEM stuff works, I suppose that the restore image failed to include the files that relate this installation to whatever 'key' material is stored in the BIOS.

The key didn't work because Windows 8 failed on all levels. Secure boot is why Windows 8 failed.

The point being even if I had made a backup my self (You can only have one per EULA of Windows 8 OEM) that worked, it wouldn't have worked.

In Windows 8 OEM for pre-built PC's has a hardware hash key and both it and the Windows 8 product key are kept in the BIOS.

They are encrypted and Windows 8 doesn't store the hardware hash on the HDD. Even if I had the right key and I don't only the default OEM install key it still wouldn't work.

The moment I loaded the backup it would have gone for the Key in the BIOS right or wrong and replaced it with it's own.

Yes Microsoft made this system a real pain because they thought there's no way folks would ever download cracked windows instead if they didn't want to pay.

»www.dedoimedo.com/comput ··· ion.html

In the link above it shows partly just how much windows 8 counts on the BIOS for the product key. The backups had the key, but thanks to how this dumb system works now they replaced it with the junk key install key in the BIOS.

Have you tried this command at the prompt line?

powershell "(Get-WmiObject -query 'select * from SoftwareLicensingService').OA3xOriginalProductKey"


I will try it later, but I am really sure that won't work. Thanks for the tip though. I knew there were ways to do it though powershell and CMD. I might have done this already, but with all the crap I went though to try to fix this thing myself I can't be sure.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20 to why60loss

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Thanks for that neosmart.net link! That is the ONLY piece of software that has been able to correctly find my Windows 8.0 Pro key in the BIOS. Belarc Advisor is wrong. Produkey is wrong. Both of them find Microsoft Media Center key NOT the product key burned in the BIOS by Dell. Even Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Action Center\Windows Activation only finds the Microsoft key for Media Center and claims that is the key burned in the BIOS which is FUD. Advisor insists what they see is the product key in the bios but that is not true.

I know the key neosmart found is the correct key burned in the BIOS because I retrieved it shortly after getting this machine from Dell in November 2012. Then two weeks after I got the machine I installed Media Center and Microsoft changed the key shown in the Control Panel and in C:\Windows and tried to tell me the key burned in the BIOS had also been changed but I never bought that. However, until now every method I have tried to see the key in the bios only produced the Microsoft Media Center key until now with neosmart. So, I think Neosmart is the best way to find your key in the BIOS. Microsoft did NOT change the BIOS key when I installed Media Center which is what I thought but couldn't prove until now.
Mele20

Mele20 to why60loss

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to why60loss
said by why60loss:

The point being even if I had made a backup my self (You can only have one per EULA of Windows 8 OEM) that worked, it wouldn't have worked.

In Windows 8 OEM for pre-built PC's has a hardware hash key and both it and the Windows 8 product key are kept in the BIOS.

They are encrypted and Windows 8 doesn't store the hardware hash on the HDD. Even if I had the right key and I don't only the default OEM install key it still wouldn't work.

The moment I loaded the backup it would have gone for the Key in the BIOS right or wrong and replaced it with it's own.

Luckily, I haven't had to reinstall Windows 8.0 Pro. Plus, I have a Dell Reinstallation USB to use if I even need to reinstall or just get fed up and want to do a clean install. But I made a backup and I don't understand what you said that the backup would go for the key in BIOS. Why would that be a problem? This is the first I have heard of an OEM hardware "hash key" kept in the BIOS along with the product key.
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

1 edit

dave to why60loss

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to why60loss
Any image backup contains the same bits that the system being backed-up has, so I don't see that would cause the issue you're seeing.

What is the mechanism you used to 'restore' the system? There seem to be several options.

Not that this helps - I'm just trying to understand what might have happened.

why60loss
Premium Member
join:2012-09-20

why60loss

Premium Member

said by dave:

Any image backup contains the same bits that the system being backed-up has, so I don't see that would cause the issue you're seeing.

What is the mechanism you used to 'restore' the system? There seem to be several options.

Not that this helps - I'm just trying to understand what might have happened.

The hard drive has not been changed, it has checked out fine and it still had the restore hidden partition that the system shipped with from the OEM.

This was my only working option to recover the system and in this link it shows the key is in a encrypted hash: »www.urtech.ca/2013/06/so ··· -cd-key/

That certificate had went bad and that made windows 8 unable to boot. It also says it automatically pulls a key from the BIOS to activate right away.

How does that work, I am not really sure. But I know until I reset the certificates and turned secure boot off then on again, windows 8 would not be able to boot again from a restore no matter how many times I did it.

Really what this amounts to is Microsoft made a real head banger of a system that not one person I met is able to really explain the whole thing from top to bottom.