dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
619

C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium Member
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ

C0deZer0

Premium Member

[Tech] Is there a bang for buck upgrade path for me here?

As a preface, here's my current system specs:
•eVGA 680i SLI motherboard
•Core 2 Quad Q6600
•6GB of total DDR2 RAM
•GeForce GTX 285
To be honest, I've been surprised that this combination has lasted as long as it has. Yet annoyingly, while I can run the other Bioshocks with no problem, Bioshock Infinite is consistently bringing my system to its knees.

Conversely, my SO's system is consistently better than mine, but hers only has a geforce 7600 in it so far, simply because she hasn't been able to upgrade it either. I now have Borderlands 2 finally, but while I can play it fine, it lags terribly on her machine... so much so she doesn't want to play anymore, when it was a game we both wanted to co-op through together.

So, simply... needing an upgrade. And at point, thinking that if I could upgrade myself reasonably, I could then give her my 285 so that we could play BL2 properly, together.

Problem is, as you can probably gather, it's been a long while since I've been able to even look at potentially upgrading this system. And it's honestly overwhelming to think that I may literally have to start all over, but simply don't have the funds to do so yet. So, what could I do that would alleviate our current struggles, at the very least until hopefully we could do something more significant?

Krisnatharok
PC Builder, Gamer
Premium Member
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit

Krisnatharok

Premium Member

I think it's time to upgrade everything.

Tirael
BOHICA
Premium Member
join:2009-03-18
Sacramento, CA

Tirael to C0deZer0

Premium Member

to C0deZer0
Honestly? Reduce the settings down to as low as you can. Then, incrementally increase them until you find a nice compromise between performance/quality.

OTH, when you do have the funds, this is about the cost you are looking at for medium-high performance:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($209.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($25.98 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M Anniversary Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($63.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($74.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($69.99 @ Micro Center)
Storage: Western Digital BLACK SERIES 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($64.98 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 280X 3GB Tri-X Video Card ($242.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 300R ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: XFX XTR 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($66.98 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24F1ST DVD/CD Writer ($14.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $884.84
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-09 23:52 EST-0500

Add or subtract as needed. If your HDDs/DVD drive is still good from your current rig, you can use those. If you need an OS, add about $100-$140.

C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium Member
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ

C0deZer0

Premium Member

Sorry, but I absolutely refuse to use a Radeon. Too much pain in dealing with them. Nothing but trouble with their drivers from the moment I first had one till the moment I shunted off my last ATi/AMD card. Not to mention I noticed a lot of my newest games all have PhysX.

I've also had a similarly sour history with Western Digital... well, everything. Even now, while still technically alive, the one "green" drive that I have from them set aside as an external I basically have to use as a scratch drive because I'm forced to reformat it all the freaking time. Since it still physically works, WD refuses to RMA it.

Raible
join:2008-01-23
Plainfield, IN

Raible to C0deZer0

Member

to C0deZer0
You can get a GTX960 for $200. I don't see that being a problem.

Krisnatharok
PC Builder, Gamer
Premium Member
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit

Krisnatharok to C0deZer0

Premium Member

to C0deZer0
AMD > Nvidia right now, IMO, unless you want to game at 4K, and then the solution is a GTX 980. Nvidia has better power efficiency, but has had a problem lying about card specs, and AMD is developing open standards for things like Mantle/DX12, TressFX, Freesync, etc.

Moreover, driver stability is something that varies greatly generation to generation, and neither AMD nor Nvidia have cornered the market on that. You have to evaluate each generation against the competitor. Boycotting one or the other for life is a dumb thing to do.

And WD Black drives are fine. HDD vendors are the same way, and occasionally run into bad batches. WD's Green drives were a self-designed nightmare, however.

C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium Member
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ

C0deZer0

Premium Member

I've had their top end. I've had their mid range. I want nothing to do with the Radeon brand. Period. I have had great experience with AMD CPU's... but it sickens me that they bought out the Radeon brand, which tends to silently EOL support for stuff far too early for my liking, assuming they support it at all. Not to mention, I also have a bunch of OpenGL games that are MUST play, and no radeon driver has ever had them working without breaking somwthing else. It was a constant game kf driver hockey with Radeon graphics cards... if I ever had a problem with a game not running on my geforce, one driver update usually solved it.

I heard about the gtx 960... not that I'm doubting you, but is it indeed a worthy upgrade? From sites like hwcompare.com, I was led to believe I needed a minimum of a gtx 770 to see a significant enough upgrade for the price of the part, and a lot of the /pcmasterrace crowd harps like the 960 can't even 1080p, though that might jist be butt-mad about how it isn't a 4K thing.

kingdome74
Let's Go Orange
Premium Member
join:2002-03-27
Syracuse, NY

kingdome74 to C0deZer0

Premium Member

to C0deZer0
Granted I'm not a builder anymore but to me there's only one mech drive I used over the years and it's WD Blacks. Consistent performance. I've bought one Seagate and it failed so, like the OP, I don't like giving anything a second chance to disappoint especially if it's money is out of my pocket. The exception to this is superior ratings by sources I trust. 3 years ago I would never have bought an AMD/Radeon yet I have two in my game rig. The winds shift so suddenly in the computer vendor world that was once crap is now king.

Adalicia
Om Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE

Adalicia to C0deZer0

Member

to C0deZer0
The biggest problem you're going to run into is that anything past like a GTX 400 series and you might run into problems with the mobo working with the cards. Or so I've heard.

That PC is basically my media PC. I have an E8400 Core 2 Duo instead of the Q6600, and only 4 GB of RAM but basically the same PC (and my GTX 285 was running hot enough to boil water so EVGA RMA'd it for a GTX 470).

I've heard a 660 Ti will work with that motherboard but after that and it is anyone's guess.

Anyway, if you actually want to play newer games smoothly then as Kris said, it is time for an upgrade everything. Recycle what you can (case, drives, maybe PSU etc) and go from there. Or build from scratch and use the old one as a media PC or something, like I do. It is still a capable PC for most things, just not playing Dragon Age: Inquisition or Battlefield 4 or what have you.

Krisnatharok
PC Builder, Gamer
Premium Member
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit

Krisnatharok to C0deZer0

Premium Member

to C0deZer0
said by C0deZer0:

I've had their top end. I've had their mid range. I want nothing to do with the Radeon brand. Period. I have had great experience with AMD CPU's... but it sickens me that they bought out the Radeon brand, which tends to silently EOL support for stuff far too early for my liking, assuming they support it at all. Not to mention, I also have a bunch of OpenGL games that are MUST play, and no radeon driver has ever had them working without breaking somwthing else. It was a constant game kf driver hockey with Radeon graphics cards... if I ever had a problem with a game not running on my geforce, one driver update usually solved it.

I hear what you are saying, but to show you how dated that impression is, the AMD FX CPUs are trash. They completely dropped the ball on the successor to the Phenom II's and actually took a step backward in a lot of areas. AMD APUs are OK, but generally a budget, sub-$600 option.

What games are you playing on OpenGL? A lot of older games have been re-released with current support for Windows 8.1. If that's a show-stopper, get the GTX 960 or GTX 970 and don't look back. Just realize the 970 isn't adequate for running above 1080/1440p due to the spec fiasco.

Raible
join:2008-01-23
Plainfield, IN

Raible to C0deZer0

Member

to C0deZer0
said by C0deZer0:

I heard about the gtx 960... not that I'm doubting you, but is it indeed a worthy upgrade? From sites like hwcompare.com, I was led to believe I needed a minimum of a gtx 770 to see a significant enough upgrade for the price of the part

I use Tom's and he says the 960 would be a 5 tier upgrade for you. The 770 would be 6 tiers. They say go at least 3 tiers to make it worth your while. Real benchmarks between the 960 and 770 are very close. I think the 960 even beats the 770 in one of them.

»www.tomshardware.com/rev ··· 8-4.html

There's no question here about which cards are better than others. It's not like it's difficult to read benchmarks. It's just a matter of price and I was under the impression you were on a budget. 960-$200, 770-$280, 970-$340.

But yes, I would say the 960 is a very good performance/$ upgrade for you given where you are now. I would stand by that.

El Quintron
Cancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna

El Quintron

Premium Member

said by Raible:

But yes, I would say the 960 is a very good performance/$ upgrade for you given where you are now. I would stand by that.

If the OP refuses to go AMD, then I think the 960 is probably the best option. Is there any way to get it working on the OP's current motherboard?

Adalicia
Om Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE

Adalicia

Member

Unlikely. That motherboard came out in November of 2006. I haven't run into compatibility issues on mine but I haven't stuck anything newer than a 400 series card in it.

El Quintron
Cancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna

El Quintron

Premium Member

said by Adalicia:

Unlikely. That motherboard came out in November of 2006. I haven't run into compatibility issues on mine but I haven't stuck anything newer than a 400 series card in it.

Hmm let me do some digging, I put a 7950, in my old P5Q (a P45 board) for a friend, so there might be some hope for the OP
El Quintron

El Quintron to Adalicia

Premium Member

to Adalicia
said by Adalicia:

Unlikely. That motherboard came out in November of 2006. I haven't run into compatibility issues on mine but I haven't stuck anything newer than a 400 series card in it.

It turns out that motherboard has PCIe 1.1, and not 2.0, like my old P5Q, so any PCI 3.0 card is going to be a crapshoot if it works at all.

Sorry OP.

C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium Member
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ

C0deZer0 to Krisnatharok

Premium Member

to Krisnatharok
I've a few OpenGL games in my steam library. But the absolute must run are the two KotOR games. ATi, and then the AMD Radeon brand, dropped the ball spectacularly in the single biggest fail with that series. For nearly a full year from its release, it was an automatic crash fest on a Radeon card, and for nearly a full year, AMD refused to acknowledge there was a problem at all. And when it was finally fixed in one driver update, it was immediately broken in next month's driver release, thereby invalidating all the work and all the complaints and making it more rounds of driver hockey. I don't even want to get into the bloat of requiring .net for a device river, especially one so critical to using a system as the video driver.

Tirael
BOHICA
Premium Member
join:2009-03-18
Sacramento, CA

Tirael

Premium Member

Honestly, your best bet is to wait until a GTX 960 ti is released (rumored to be March). However, if you have the dough now, this is what I recommend (since you think WD and AMD are teh devil)

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($209.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($25.98 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M Anniversary Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($63.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($74.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($69.99 @ Micro Center)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($43.79 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 960 2GB Superclocked Video Card ($199.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Corsair 300R ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair CSM 450W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($54.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24F1ST DVD/CD Writer ($14.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $808.67
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-10 10:36 EST-0500

C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium Member
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ

C0deZer0

Premium Member

That's a little more like it. I have had consistently better luck with Seagate for mechanical drives. Why microATX? Where would I put my XFi?

Tirael
BOHICA
Premium Member
join:2009-03-18
Sacramento, CA

Tirael

Premium Member

I just picked the cheapest board (from a good company). If you need more PCI-E slots you could go with something like this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($209.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($25.98 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI Z97S SLI Krait Edition ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($109.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($74.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($69.99 @ Micro Center)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($43.79 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 960 2GB Superclocked Video Card ($199.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Corsair 300R ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair CSM 450W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($54.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24F1ST DVD/CD Writer ($14.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $854.67
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-10 10:45 EST-0500

C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium Member
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ

C0deZer0

Premium Member

So I guess the big question is how big of an upgrade is a gtx 960 over a 285?

Because my reasoning is that I could possibly get the 960, give the 285 to my fiancee's machine so she could have something... since she doesn't play tf2 at all, that issue wouldn't apply to her, and she would have something strong enough so we could finally play BL2 co-op together... and I having something to help Bioshock Infinite at least run better.

Adalicia
Om Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE

Adalicia

Member

A GTX 285 is on par, slightly under but close, to a GTX 470.

So...

C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium Member
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ

C0deZer0

Premium Member

That doesn't mean much. According to this, the 960 is significantly more power efficient (which I appreciate, since electricity bills and all), but it seems memory starved according to the results there... I have to wonder how much that will come into play.

Adalicia
Om Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE

Adalicia

Member

I'll let someone more knowledgeable than me field the meaning behind that data comparison. I think one thing to keep in mind is that it is DDR5 rather than DDR3 for the VRAM and there is twice as much.

The GTX 285 was a fantastic card, the GTX 470 EVGA replaced it with when it died is a great card.

Ghastlyone
Premium Member
join:2009-01-07
Nashville, TN

Ghastlyone to C0deZer0

Premium Member

to C0deZer0
said by C0deZer0:

That doesn't mean much. According to this, the 960 is significantly more power efficient (which I appreciate, since electricity bills and all), but it seems memory starved according to the results there... I have to wonder how much that will come into play.

You're comparing those two cards and worried about "memory bandwidth" on the GTX 960 while on paper the 2 "might" compare with each other.

In the real world though, that 960 will shit all over that ancient ass GTX 285 for gaming.

Tirael
BOHICA
Premium Member
join:2009-03-18
Sacramento, CA

Tirael to C0deZer0

Premium Member

to C0deZer0
said by C0deZer0:

but it seems memory starved according to the results there

It has a smaller bus (128 vs 512), so its memory bandwidth is lower. However, it also processes data nearly twice as fast and craps all over the GTX 285 in almost all other categories.

Jehu
Premium Member
join:2002-09-13
MA

2 edits

Jehu to C0deZer0

Premium Member

to C0deZer0
Zer0 - I have been very lazy upgrading my pc and have similar specs. c2 Quad 96* (modestly overclocked), 8 GB RAM, Win 8.1

A couple years ago I had a GTX 2-- card. I decided to cap my resolution to 1080p and bought an evga GTX 770. I've had no problems running modern games @ max with steady 60 fps. Cool story I know.

The new card made an enormous difference.

-- I should probably mention that I have several case fans (but silent!) icing everything down.
me1212
join:2008-11-20
Lees Summit, MO
·Google Fiber

me1212 to C0deZer0

Member

to C0deZer0
I can run the KOTOR games fine on my 7950. I don't mean to sound rude, but you are basing your choice off of data that is at least 6 years out dated(going off the the age of the 285), right now I wouldn't touch an nvidia card unless I was paid. Not just because of them being less than honest about the 970 or them disabling overclocking on their mobile 900 series cards. But because they are over priced no matter what resolution you are running right now. Heck amd cpus aren't what they used to be these days ether, unless you are aiming to spend $120 or less(or just want to stream on twitch) on a cpu intel is the only way to go. Things change in the world of computers, if you don't accept that you're gonna have a bad time.

That said if you really don't want amd, get a 960 it may not have much vram but its a solid card all around.

Octavean
MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY

Octavean to C0deZer0

MVM

to C0deZer0
The exclusion of AMD GPU solutions only limits your choices which of course is entirely within your rights. I see no reason to belabor over AMD / nVidia merits or lack thereof either way. If nVidia is your self imposed only choice, then in the ~$200 price range you don't really have much of an option other then the GTX 960. If you can pay more then buy the GTX 970 in the ~$330+ range or the GTX 980 in the ~$550+ range. Its really that simple,...

Buying an older nVidia card like the GTX 770 or GTX 760 is also an option but the advantages of doing so are debatable outside of deep discounts IMO. Any of the above cards are better then what you have currently though,....

If you have questions about the performance of the GTX 960 for example you should probably just take stock of the games you like to play with specificity and see which of the cards you're considering performs the best with said games. Then simply consider how much you're willing to spend. Its obvious how these cards will perform with respect to each other within their generation though.

For what its worth I have a new GTX 960 (which I have yet to install), two GTX 760 cards, a GTX 670 and a GTX 280. I have no gripes with AMD and I buy their cards as well.