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onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium Member
join:2002-03-30
Pennsylvania

onebadmofo

Premium Member

Security of a different kind

My apologies if I'm not in the right forum for this. I wouldn't know where else to post it.

So with that said:

For years in our building we have had security cards with magnetic stripes on them. Leaving out the fact that they can get lost or stolen...they all eventually end up broken, worn out, or bent. Some sooner than others.

When that happens we have to replace them and once inventory gets low we have to order more. And at $3.71 a piece, they come in a pack of 100. And usually we're needing at least 200 and that ends up being just shy of $700 when shipping is tacked on. That total just eats at you and makes you feel like you're throwing money away when these things end up broken and what not.

My thought has been why not just get a key-fob system in place of what we have now. They're more durable than cards, would last much longer, and is easier and quicker to use (no trying to slide the card in a slot).

The answer that I've always heard is that, that key fob system would cost too much to install. And that it can't be installed using the existing wiring. They would have to run all new wiring. Is this true? ...i dunno. I'd like to google it, but I'm unsure on even what to Google to find out if it is.

So does anyone here know anything about key fob systems?
Can we use existing wiring for a new system?
And would the installation cost would be astronomical?
lawsoncl
join:2008-10-28
Spirit Lake, ID

lawsoncl

Member


Call a professional alarm/access-control company. They can tell you what wiring you need to the access point readers. More than likely there are adequate wires, but the new readers and potentially the rest of the the system would need to support RFID tags versus barcodes.

Ian1
Premium Member
join:2002-06-18
ON

1 edit

Ian1 to onebadmofo

Premium Member

to onebadmofo
Without knowing what the exact details of your security system are, it's hard to say how easy it is to swap one authentication system with another.

I am not an installer of such things, but I can see many reasons why doing something like this should be non-trivial.

You wouldn't want it to be some dirt-simple software system that accepts any old input as being "authenticated, open the door". So changing from one to reader to another should never be THAT easy to do. But it could be just a matter of it needing to transmit a simple number over a serial port of some kind.

Unless you're ordering $700 worth of cards a month, I can't see changing the readers as being cheap to do. AFAIK usually these things are done by changing the entire system. Is this tied into payroll as well?

onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium Member
join:2002-03-30
Pennsylvania

onebadmofo

Premium Member

Nah this isn't tied into payroll at all.
And there an't any barcode on the cards at all.

I know this probably doesn't help in getting further information but what the hell, here is one of the card readers we have in the building.


lawsoncl
join:2008-10-28
Spirit Lake, ID

lawsoncl

Member

Looks like either an MR10 or SR10a. »www.mercury-security.com ··· ds/sr10a

So the question becomes whether they are standalone readers controlling individual door strikes, or if there is a central control system. Standalone is how hotel doors work, the card gets programmed at the front office with something the card reader will like (they're actually more sophisticated as the card number also specifies dates to allow access) and it opens the door strike. For central control the authentication doesn't happen at the reader. The reader just reads the card and sends the digits from the card out to the central controller which then opens the door remotely. There is far more control in the central approach, including revoking lost cards and access logging.

I think you might be way overpaying for the cards if they're just cheap pvc magstripes. »www.idcardgroup.com/sear ··· tripepvc. Sounds like maybe they are ordering the RFID/HD proximity cards and just not using the magstripe. If you're getting them pre-printed, that might raise the cost.

onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium Member
join:2002-03-30
Pennsylvania

onebadmofo

Premium Member

I don't think they're standalone. We have a management system in place called C-CURE which is installed on a standard desktop computer.

I don't know much about the system because I sorta got handed the responsibility/volunteered to do it when the person who did do it, was moved elsewhere.

These cards, from what I'm told, are priced as they are because they are preprogrammed for our system by HID. They have numbers printed on the back of the card. I create a new user in the C-CURE system, enter that card number to the respective user, click create and the card is now active and ready to be used. I can deactivate and re-activate that card at any moment as many times as needed. I can set access times and deny access to specific doors. It's pretty detailed.

...so that would be central control. Right?

So it's because of that price that I'd like to get away from cards and try to move onto proximity key fob system. Every other office we have uses them. But we were the first office so we're still stuck on old tech.

But I'd like to know if they're blowing smoke up our asses by saying it would be too pricey to upgrade.

GuruGuy
Premium Member
join:2002-12-16
Atlanta, GA

GuruGuy

Premium Member

said by onebadmofo:

I don't think they're standalone. We have a management system in place called C-CURE which is installed on a standard desktop computer.

I don't know much about the system because I sorta got handed the responsibility/volunteered to do it when the person who did do it, was moved elsewhere.

These cards, from what I'm told, are priced as they are because they are preprogrammed for our system by HID. They have numbers printed on the back of the card. I create a new user in the C-CURE system, enter that card number to the respective user, click create and the card is now active and ready to be used. I can deactivate and re-activate that card at any moment as many times as needed. I can set access times and deny access to specific doors. It's pretty detailed.

...so that would be central control. Right?

So it's because of that price that I'd like to get away from cards and try to move onto proximity key fob system. Every other office we have uses them. But we were the first office so we're still stuck on old tech.

But I'd like to know if they're blowing smoke up our asses by saying it would be too pricey to upgrade.

If every other office other than your particular building has the new system, sounds like someone already knows what it cost. I'd ask that person(s).

Ian1
Premium Member
join:2002-06-18
ON

Ian1 to onebadmofo

Premium Member

to onebadmofo
said by onebadmofo:

But I'd like to know if they're blowing smoke up our asses by saying it would be too pricey to upgrade.

There might be some coding involved in the system, or not. If all it's doing is transmitting a number, there might be some flexibility in the system.

Cards that you don't have to manipulate as much might be an option too. I like the RFID key cards. Your wallet only needs to be close to the reader, so you don't have to remove the card.

But if you actually want to enhance security and REALLY make it easier for people, a thumb-print scanner might even be an option. As it is, anyone in possession of an active card can access the door, by the sounds of it.

People lose their thumbs less often than their keys or cards too, saving de-activating/re-programming time.

camper
just visiting this planet
Premium Member
join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT

camper to onebadmofo

Premium Member

to onebadmofo
said by onebadmofo:

My thought has been why not just get a key-fob system in place of what we have now.

 
Personally, I've always preferred the card to the fob, as I do not want yet another blob on my keychain.

One company I worked for had a proximity card system, and I kept the card in my wallet. Unfortunately, the readers were mounted a bit too high to just back into them and have the card read. You could always tell the people who kept the cards in their wallets, because they would do this odd turn-around and jump motion to get the card close enough to the reader to allow them through the door.....

Ian1
Premium Member
join:2002-06-18
ON

Ian1

Premium Member

said by camper:

because they would do this odd turn-around and jump motion to get the card close enough to the reader to allow them through the door.....

That sounds like a benefit-cost reducing employee exercise program right there. This new reader system "Capital Equipment Justification Form BX9/12" is just writing itself!

Although for every one of those, there will be employees who choose to enclose them in an enormous purse (perhaps with a Faraday Cage in the lining) requiring an examination of 6200 other cards and items each morning to get in. This is why I still like the thumb reader idea.

camper
just visiting this planet
Premium Member
join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT

camper

Premium Member

said by Ian1:

This is why I still like the thumb reader idea.

 
I refuse to provide biometric ID scans for routine types of identification, which includes company IDs.

Given the current state of corporate security, the risks are too excessive for the benefits to me.