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fios1
join:2015-02-12

fios1

Member

When will Bell offer Gigabit speeds? (FTTH)

When can Bell customers (for those who have FTTH) expect to get gigabit speeds? 5, 10, 15 years from now?

Thanks.

Nitra
join:2011-09-15
Montreal

Nitra

Member

Could be tomorrow, could be 10 years.
It's impossible to answer this question

When the market reaches that point, they will offer it.

TypeS
join:2012-12-17
London, ON

1 recommendation

TypeS

Member

said by smogers :

never because no one needs that speed.

Pretty much, at least for the near future gigabit internet is simply just an arbitrary number.

The bigger problem is some have the speeds to do what they need/want on the internet and others don't. Many can't even get access to a lowly 6Mb/s DSL connection.

Getting more consistent broadband access to more Canadians is far more important then the meaningless race which ISP has the faster speed.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

said by TypeS:

Getting more consistent broadband access to more Canadians is far more important then the meaningless race which ISP has the faster speed.

Fastest speed matters for advertising. Consistent speeds doesn't.
ohreally
join:2014-11-21

ohreally to fios1

Member

to fios1
As others are saying, it's about marketing.

Google does it because it creates hype, and they can do it knowing that since gigabit is not necessary, it is unlikely that their customer base is going to all max out their gigabit connections at the same time. That enables them to oversell massively without much of a risk of customer complaints, and it keeps costs down.

FTTH in general, and a consistent service to as many customers as possible, is more important than the speeds that are offered over it. At least it is relatively futureproof and easily upgraded to whatever speeds customers really need in the future - whether that's gigabit or not. FTTH and say 200Mbps to everyone is more beneficial than 1Gbit to a tiny few (like Google is doing)
InvalidError
join:2008-02-03

InvalidError to fios1

Member

to fios1
15 years ago, the average speed was around 3Mbps, Youtube and Netflix did not exist and most people were relatively happy with that. Today, people are pushing for about 20-30Mbps to accommodate multiple online streams without having to worry about buffering.

If you extrapolate from these two points, it might take another 15 years before speeds around 300Mbps become mainstream but I seriously doubt the average family's bandwidth requirements will grow even half that fast.

Shaman
join:2014-12-16
Kingston, ON

Shaman

Member

TBH, I question why anyone really needs more than about 25Mbps. If you have an extended family, maybe... but you can stream several high-def videos and use the Internet for other things with that kind of speed, no issues.

JAMESMTL
Premium Member
join:2014-09-02

JAMESMTL

Premium Member

Simply put to move a lot of bits from one place to another. Downloading large video games, uploading & download large files such as vhd's from backups via google drive, etc...

The internet is greater than Netflix and personally I rather not wait all day to move those bits
fios1
join:2015-02-12

1 edit

fios1

Member

I'm surprised at some of the responses in this thread (about Internet speeds).

In my opinion, the prices us Canadians get charged for Internet is complete insanity. There's no way we should be charged for the prices we get charged for (I think most people will agree on that) I think we're getting screwed so bad that it's unreal... especially data caps, that shouldn't even exist in the first place, but we all know ISP's want to maximize profits and squeeze every little penny from their customers.

If I could get FTTH now with speeds of up to 300/400/500 mbps, I'd sign up in a heart beat. (assuming that there's no data cap and the price is fair/reasonable)

I definitely do agree that the average family/average Joe probably won't need that much bandwidth, but I'm sure there's people out there who would use a powerful connection to it's true potential. Why even deploy fiber if they're gonna max out at 175?

I think it's a fantastic thing that Bell is deploying fiber all over the GTA area, but I'm a bit surprised that the 175 package is the best you can get with a FTTH connection.

There probably should be an option for people who want something more than that, and offer a reasonable price that would still make them a lot of money, but make the customer very happy (for instance, IMO, something like $90/100 per month for 500/500)

Let's say I want to download a game from the Xbox One Store, it's a 45 GB file... with a 20 mbps connection it would take around 5 hours just to complete the download... with a 300 mbps connection, it would take only 22 minutes. Huge difference. With speeds like that, I'd probably stick to buying digital copies only and never go back to BestBuy/EB Games for hard copies. etc.

Fiber optic connections (with very high speeds) can change everything.

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

Guspaz to fios1

MVM

to fios1
When I first got DSL, it was 1.2 Mbps and it seemed so fast (certainly in comparison to trying to stream video on a 56k modem with much more primitive video compression than is available today). Usable speeds were only one megabit, and yet it seemed so blazing fast!

A few months ago, some sort of issue with my connection limited me to 3Mbps instead of my normal 60, and it felt like everything had slowed to a crawl. Web pages took forever to load, my usual pattern of browsing where I'd go down a site and open interesting links in new tabs just didn't work because trying to load multiple pages at once meant that none of them loaded in any reasonable amount of time, and video streaming worked but at substantially reduced quality.

It's not just a matter of being spoiled by higher speeds, the content we're consuming is growing larger and larger. Video is higher and higher bitrate and resolution, videogames that you download on Steam are getting bigger and bigger, websites are getting higher resolution images due to "retina" displays... and this trend is going to continue for the foreseeable future.

When I download a 50 gigabyte game on Steam, if it goes at full speed it takes a little under two hours. Not exactly instant gratification, but with a little pre-planning it's not much of a delay. Start the download when I get home from work and I'll have some time to play after dinner.

If I was on 1.2 megabit DSL like I was back in the day, that same download would take up to a week. At that point it's faster to buy a disc online and have it shipped to me, and having my Internet locked up downloading for a whole week would just be unacceptable.

Today, 60 megabit seems fine to me, but could I notice the difference if I managed to get a gigabit connection? Sure I could. Stuff would seem snappier, downloads would happen faster, that 50 gig game is now a 7 minute download, which is essentially instant gratification. It would be better. Is it something I need? No, it's not. But it'd be nice.

jmck
formerly 'shaded'
join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON

jmck

Member

and as you've explained, images, videos and games are growing in size and will continue to grow where 25-50Mbit will seem just as slow as 1-3Mbit today.

who knows when 4K video will become today's 1080P, but it's close. images are being offered now with 4 times the pixel density because of higher resolution screens on phones, tablets, computers.

50GB for a high end game is now now "normal" while 2-3 years ago 30GB was it.

Nitra
join:2011-09-15
Montreal

Nitra

Member

said by smogers :

never because no one needs that speed.

Speak for yourself.

Time is money friend.

g523
@acanac.net

g523 to fios1

Anon

to fios1
Right now with division of fiber and copper networks, there is only one peer YOU with only one access points ISP . remove that single peering point and your information becomes worth less. free even. all your information becomes free. zero privacy in fiber to home, multiple interconnection points. but also much more costly. fiber in a second can handle the traffic of your whole street in a single packet. of youtube and netflix and bitorrents. make it all fiber to the home. and 99% of your packets are 1Kbit game communication instead of 1GB chunks of films and movies distributed. less copper traffic, less benefit of fiber. cause most internet communications are fine on 56k modems. like update checks, html , emails, game traffic.

clog the peers with fiber to the home to everyone. the demand of light packets, limited by time. and processing all that LIGHT fiber packets of 1KB game traffic per second, becomes outrageous and our internet costs increase like our food costs compared to countries with better internet services.

$0.10 for a pasta fiesta in korea. $15 here.

v6movement
@pppoe.ca

v6movement

Anon

said by smogers :

never because no one needs that speed.

Speak for yourself. No one needs a cell phone yet practically everyone has them.
yyzlhr
join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON

yyzlhr to fios1

Member

to fios1
said by fios1:

I'm surprised at some of the responses in this thread (about Internet speeds).

In my opinion, the prices us Canadians get charged for Internet is complete insanity. There's no way we should be charged for the prices we get charged for (I think most people will agree on that) I think we're getting screwed so bad that it's unreal... especially data caps, that shouldn't even exist in the first place, but we all know ISP's want to maximize profits and squeeze every little penny from their customers.

If I could get FTTH now with speeds of up to 300/400/500 mbps, I'd sign up in a heart beat. (assuming that there's no data cap and the price is fair/reasonable)

I definitely do agree that the average family/average Joe probably won't need that much bandwidth, but I'm sure there's people out there who would use a powerful connection to it's true potential. Why even deploy fiber if they're gonna max out at 175?

I think it's a fantastic thing that Bell is deploying fiber all over the GTA area, but I'm a bit surprised that the 175 package is the best you can get with a FTTH connection.

There probably should be an option for people who want something more than that, and offer a reasonable price that would still make them a lot of money, but make the customer very happy (for instance, IMO, something like $90/100 per month for 500/500)

Let's say I want to download a game from the Xbox One Store, it's a 45 GB file... with a 20 mbps connection it would take around 5 hours just to complete the download... with a 300 mbps connection, it would take only 22 minutes. Huge difference. With speeds like that, I'd probably stick to buying digital copies only and never go back to BestBuy/EB Games for hard copies. etc.

Fiber optic connections (with very high speeds) can change everything.

There's a difference between unnecessary speed and affordable prices. In countries where internet is reasonably priced, most individuals are usually on 25-50mbps connections at very reasonable rates.

Also fibre doesn't necessarily equate to break neck speeds. 175mbps is more than enough for residential use today. If ISPs like bell were to consistently deliver higher speeds, they would need to either have the fibre shared amongst fewer households or swap out the line cards to support other PON based technologies. All of these methods will ultimately increase the cost of the service while serving the needs of a relatively small market segment.

Nitra
join:2011-09-15
Montreal

Nitra

Member

Given the size of current media (PS4/Xbox One Games, 4K content) among many other things, the greater the speed, the better.

I for one have no interest in waiting around for 5 hours for something that could be delivered in 10 minutes.
Anyone that says you don't need the speed, doesn't consume any large media content.
Also, in coming years, this will only increase.
prairiesky
join:2008-12-08
canada

1 recommendation

prairiesky to Nitra

Member

to Nitra
said by Nitra:

said by smogers :

never because no one needs that speed.

Speak for yourself.

Time is money friend.

Most people are cheap. They barely want to pay $50 a month or ~1.70 a day for internet access. I think just about everyone can agree it's value is much higher than $1.70 a day. There should be packages for everyone. If you want to download that game in 10 minutes, fine, but it's not going to be $50 a month.

v6movement
@pppoe.ca

v6movement

Anon

said by prairiesky:

Most people are cheap. They barely want to pay $50 a month or ~1.70 a day for internet access. I think just about everyone can agree it's value is much higher than $1.70 a day. There should be packages for everyone. If you want to download that game in 10 minutes, fine, but it's not going to be $50 a month.

It's more like people have issues paying $50 a month for the typical slow Internet connections available now. If what they were being provided had much better value for the speed provided it wouldn't be anywhere near as much of an issue. Canadian Internet service over all is quite a rip off especially with the ridiculously low caps, that is just purely insulting to consumers.

Nitra
join:2011-09-15
Montreal

Nitra

Member

Heh, my overall internet bills total just over 2k right now, after next month, we'll be pushing over 10k/mo once the EU expansion is complete.
My home connections are just over $300/mo.
i_pk_pjers_i
join:2007-04-20
none

i_pk_pjers_i to TypeS

Member

to TypeS
said by TypeS:

said by smogers :

never because no one needs that speed.

Pretty much, at least for the near future gigabit internet is simply just an arbitrary number.

The bigger problem is some have the speeds to do what they need/want on the internet and others don't. Many can't even get access to a lowly 6Mb/s DSL connection.

Getting more consistent broadband access to more Canadians is far more important then the meaningless race which ISP has the faster speed.

Right, but in order to get more consistent broadband access, Bell are going to only want to lay down fiber cables and the newest infrastructure. The thing is, they already ARE rolling out fiber to some players in Ontario. For example, Bell just spent $35M on rolling out fiber to Peterborough so they clearly are upgrading.

@OP: I would estimate for most places in Ontario to have Fiber by 5-10 years, more likely 10.

v6movement
@pppoe.ca

v6movement

Anon

said by i_pk_pjers_i:

Right, but in order to get more consistent broadband access, Bell are going to only want to lay down fiber cables and the newest infrastructure.

What they need to deliver more consistent broadband is to build out period. The issue isn't the type of cabling. The vast majority of consumers are fine from both a want and need perspective with 50 - 100 Mbps connections and there is room for improvement even with the existing infrastructure. The rest are niche consumers fixated on a number.
said by i_pk_pjers_i:

@OP: I would estimate for most places in Ontario to have Fiber by 5-10 years, more likely 10.

Maybe as backhaul from the nodes that might be true. But to the home, not even close.

interactiom
@bhn.net

1 recommendation

interactiom to fios1

Anon

to fios1
said by fios1 See Profile
Let's say I want to download a game from the Xbox One Store, it's a 45 GB file... with a 20 mbps connection it would take around 5 hours just to complete the download... with a 300 mbps connection, it would take only 22 minutes. Huge difference. With speeds like that, I'd probably stick to buying digital copies only and never go back to BestBuy/EB Games for hard copies. etc.
[/bquote :

Or in 22 minutes you could get up off the couch, go out into the real world, go to the store buy the game and be back home. You could do even more stuff over the course of 5 hours.

fios1
join:2015-02-12

fios1

Member

Lmao, I don't even know what to say, I'm speechless. Typical backward/stone-age thinking.

Whether you like it or not, this will be a reality in the future. Deal with it.

Can't even believe someone has the nerve to tell me what to do with my own life. I hope you're trolling, lol.

jmck
formerly 'shaded'
join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON

jmck to interactiom

Member

to interactiom
said by interactiom :

said by fios1 See Profile
Let's say I want to download a game from the Xbox One Store, it's a 45 GB file... with a 20 mbps connection it would take around 5 hours just to complete the download... with a 300 mbps connection, it would take only 22 minutes. Huge difference. With speeds like that, I'd probably stick to buying digital copies only and never go back to BestBuy/EB Games for hard copies. etc.
[/bquote :

Or in 22 minutes you could get up off the couch, go out into the real world, go to the store buy the game and be back home. You could do even more stuff over the course of 5 hours.

great logic.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to fios1

Premium Member

to fios1
said by fios1:

When can Bell customers (for those who have FTTH) expect to get gigabit speeds? 5, 10, 15 years from now?

That day is coming closer ..... it's -40C with the wind chill today, so hell is getting closer to freezing over.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues to Guspaz

Premium Member

to Guspaz
I can top that, I went from 300bps to 1200bps on dial up and boy did my LD phone bill go through the roof , when I was calling AE Lines.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS ··· _Express
fios1
join:2015-02-12

fios1 to MaynardKrebs

Member

to MaynardKrebs
LOL! In my opinion, it's sad to see that ISP's here in Canada are stuck in the stone ages, but that'll never change, we'll always be behind in terms of quality service here in Canada.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues

Premium Member

said by fios1:

LOL! In my opinion, it's sad to see that ISP's here in Canada are stuck in the stone ages, but that'll never change, we'll always be behind in terms of quality service here in Canada.

It's not a matter of being stuck in the stone age, the cartel has no interested in giving us higher speeds, there is a finite amount of money (even though those higher speeds costs to the cartel are negligible) they can extract from the consumer. If we got those higher speeds you bet your bottom dollar that they'll try and take us to the cleaners.

Right now those very limited availability, higher speeds are just penis envy between members of the Robellus cartel.

Nitra
join:2011-09-15
Montreal

Nitra

Member

Heh, Elwood, we were using »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet
for many moons in Northern Ontario
InvalidError
join:2008-02-03

InvalidError to jmck

Member

to jmck
said by jmck:

who knows when 4K video will become today's 1080P, but it's close.

The two main problems with betting on higher resolution video to drive bandwidth demand up are that most people cannot easily tell the difference with resolutions beyond 1080p under typical living room couch viewing conditions and quadrupling the resolution typically requires less than twice as much bandwidth.