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Albo23
join:2006-05-23
Sterling Heights, MI

Albo23

Member

[Connection] Does Comcast allow Clear QAM?

I am thinking of switching from another provider and I am curious if I can connect a direct coax cable into a TV and have it fetch local HD via QAM without the digital adapter Comcast provides?

telcodad
MVM
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ

telcodad

MVM

[Connection] Re: Does Comcast allow Clear QAM?

Sorry, but I think just about all Comcast markets are totally encrypted (no ClearQAM) now: »[Content] Report notifications of Limited Basic tier encryption here

These areas in Michigan included:

»[Content] Re: Report notifications of Limited Basic tier encryption here

»ClearQAM Gone in Ypsilanti MI
michiguide
join:2005-05-24
Sterling Heights, MI

michiguide to Albo23

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Telcodad is correct - the Comcast system here in Sterling Heights has all the locals encrypted now.

PaulGo
join:2005-01-29
Gaithersburg, MD

PaulGo to Albo23

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You would need at a minimum Limited Basic service. In my area for Limited Basic their is no HD fee required and you get up to three HD-DTAs free.

telcodad
MVM
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ

telcodad to Albo23

MVM

to Albo23
said by PaulGo:

You would need at a minimum Limited Basic service. In my area for Limited Basic their is no HD fee required and you get up to three HD-DTAs free.

That may not apply to new customers, though. See:

Encryption of Limited Basic Services FAQs
Updated on February 19, 2015 at 2:40 PM
»customer.comcast.com/hel ··· ryption/
quote:
I am a new Comcast customer, and channels were encrypted just before I signed up. Am I eligible for this offer?
Unfortunately, you will not be eligible.

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

1 recommendation

maartena to Albo23

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Re: Does Comcast allow Clear QAM?

There was a FCC vote in 2012. At the time, the council consisted of 3 GOP, and 2 DEMS. The vote brought the questions as to whether cable providers should be allowed to encrypt all basic cable channels including the locals. The vote was passed 3 GOP in favor, 2 DEM against.

As such, cable companies are now allowed to not only encrypt every channel they put on the cables, as a side effect it also means that most of the analog channels will finally be removed, so you will have to have a box or tuner adapter to get them.

This isn't much difference from most other providers by the way, all satellite providers are already digital-only and so are most IPTV providers. I think only FIOS still has some clear QAM on their lines, but who knows for how long.

Want free locals? Put an antenna on your roof. That's what I did, and I get a crystal clear picture for absolutely nothing.

F100
join:2013-01-15
Durham, NC
Alcatel-Lucent G-010G-A
(Software) pfSense
Pace 5268AC

1 recommendation

F100

Member

Time Warner still has full analog and clear QAM in some markets as well like here in central NC. With the launch of Max internet speeds though, it won't be long before they follow in the footsteps of Comcast and move everything to encrypted digital.

TWC is always a few years behind Comcast in deploying new technology or upgrades like DOCSIS 3.0, IPv6, etc. TWC also uses tuning adapters for Switched Digital Video. So with a HTPC or TIVO, you need a cable card and a tuning adapter. Just more stuff to deal with.

Funny part is the FCC still requires that any device called a TV must include the clear QAM tuner for digital TV, even though none of the providers will be using that tuner standard eventually. Only setups like universities, hotels and others that run their own internal TV network will use the clear QAM. The university I work at went all digital in December with 80 channels over clear QAM. Just plug in TV and scan.
rody_44
Premium Member
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA

rody_44

Premium Member

It make sense to require a qam tuner. Thats what allows people to use over the air via antenna.

camper
just visiting this planet
Premium Member
join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT

1 recommendation

camper

Premium Member

said by rody_44:

It make sense to require a qam tuner. Thats what allows people to use over the air via antenna.

 
QAM is the "over the cable" digital standard.

ATSC is the "over the air" digital standard (replacing the old NTSC).

Over the air TV reception requires an ATSC capable tuner.

telcodad
MVM
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ

telcodad

MVM

said by camper:

QAM is the "over the cable" digital standard.

ATSC is the "over the air" digital standard (replacing the old NTSC).

Over the air TV reception requires an ATSC capable tuner.

And I guess you can say some of the newer TV sets can also receive "over the internet" i.e., "Smart" TVs: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_TV
rody_44
Premium Member
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA

1 edit

rody_44 to camper

Premium Member

to camper
Same device within the tv. Still just another board within.

andyross
MVM
join:2003-05-04
Aurora, IL

andyross to camper

MVM

to camper
QAM is the modulation scheme used for cable (256QAM is the most common.)

8VSB is the modulation scheme for antenna.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8VSB

ATSC is just a standard how the digital data is packaged.

telcodad
MVM
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ

telcodad

MVM

said by andyross:

8VSB is the modulation scheme for antenna.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8VSB

ATSC is just a standard how the digital data is packaged.

Yes, but most TV set descriptions/documentation still use the term "ATSC tuner": »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC_tuner

camper
just visiting this planet
Premium Member
join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT

1 recommendation

camper to andyross

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to andyross
said by andyross:

ATSC is just a standard how the digital data is packaged.

 
That's true. When you're buying a TV and looking at the TV specs, you'll likely see "ATSC tuner" on the spec sheet, not "8vSB modulation".

telcodad
MVM
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ

telcodad

MVM

And not to get too far OT, but the latest ATSC 3.0 standard uses Orthogonal Frequency-Division Multiplexing (OFDM) for its modulation: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT ··· ATSC_3.0

PaulGo
join:2005-01-29
Gaithersburg, MD

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Re: [Connection] Re: Does Comcast allow Clear QAM?

said by telcodad:

said by PaulGo:

You would need at a minimum Limited Basic service. In my area for Limited Basic their is no HD fee required and you get up to three HD-DTAs free.

That may not apply to new customers, though. See:

Encryption of Limited Basic Services FAQs
Updated on February 19, 2015 at 2:40 PM
»customer.comcast.com/hel ··· ryption/
quote:
I am a new Comcast customer, and channels were encrypted just before I signed up. Am I eligible for this offer?
Unfortunately, you will not be eligible.

The information I provided is from the Comcast Services and Pricing Sheet dated Feb. 1, 2015 which was included as an insert with all January bills for Montgomery County, MD. Their are no exclusions and they apply to all customers.
logger
join:2012-06-14
Carmel, NY

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Re: Does Comcast allow Clear QAM?

said by F100:

Funny part is the FCC still requires that any device called a TV must include the clear QAM tuner for digital TV

I would appreciate it if you, or someone else, would provide a link, or URL, to that FCC requirement. The FCC requires a tuner capable of tuning digital over-the-air signals. However, QAM is not part of the digital broadcast signal standard.

telcodad
MVM
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ

telcodad

MVM

said by logger:

said by F100:

Funny part is the FCC still requires that any device called a TV must include the clear QAM tuner for digital TV

I would appreciate it if you, or someone else, would provide a link, or URL, to that FCC requirement. The FCC requires a tuner capable of tuning digital over-the-air signals. However, QAM is not part of the digital broadcast signal standard.

From this page on the FCC site, it appears that, as of March 1, 2007, only an over-the-air digital tuner is required in all "television receivers":

DTV Enforcement
»www.fcc.gov/guides/dtv-e ··· orcement
quote:
The Commission's DTV-related enforcement efforts have focused on protecting consumers by enforcing our rules as this transition takes place. To date, the Commission has taken enforcement action in several areas:
(1) the prohibition on the importation and shipment of television receivers without integrated digital tuners;
(2) the labeling requirement for television receivers incapable of receiving over-the-air digital signals without a converter box; ...


maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena

Premium Member

said by telcodad:

said by logger:

said by F100:

Funny part is the FCC still requires that any device called a TV must include the clear QAM tuner for digital TV

I would appreciate it if you, or someone else, would provide a link, or URL, to that FCC requirement. The FCC requires a tuner capable of tuning digital over-the-air signals. However, QAM is not part of the digital broadcast signal standard.

From this page on the FCC site, it appears that, as of March 1, 2007, only an over-the-air digital tuner is required in all "television receivers":

DTV Enforcement
»www.fcc.gov/guides/dtv-e ··· orcement
quote:
The Commission's DTV-related enforcement efforts have focused on protecting consumers by enforcing our rules as this transition takes place. To date, the Commission has taken enforcement action in several areas:
(1) the prohibition on the importation and shipment of television receivers without integrated digital tuners;
(2) the labeling requirement for television receivers incapable of receiving over-the-air digital signals without a converter box; ...

Yep, this is correct. And that made sense in preparation for the all-digital transition that happened a couple of years ago. There is absolutely NO requirement whatsoever to have a QAM tuner.

If you still have clear QAM and analog channels, be happy. In many markets they will be removed to make room for better/faster internet services.

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1

2 edits

Anonymous_ to maartena

Premium Member

to maartena
said by maartena:

There was a FCC vote in 2012. At the time, the council consisted of 3 GOP, and 2 DEMS. The vote brought the questions as to whether cable providers should be allowed to encrypt all basic cable channels including the locals. The vote was passed 3 GOP in favor, 2 DEM against.

As such, cable companies are now allowed to not only encrypt every channel they put on the cables, as a side effect it also means that most of the analog channels will finally be removed, so you will have to have a box or tuner adapter to get them.

This isn't much difference from most other providers by the way, all satellite providers are already digital-only and so are most IPTV providers. I think only FIOS still has some clear QAM on their lines, but who knows for how long.

Want free locals? Put an antenna on your roof. That's what I did, and I get a crystal clear picture for absolutely nothing.



Encrypting will not stop people from stealing cable. I all ready thought of a 3 ways to steal cable even though it's now has "encryption"

and none of them include breaking or hacking the "encryption" btw

F100
join:2013-01-15
Durham, NC
Alcatel-Lucent G-010G-A
(Software) pfSense
Pace 5268AC

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Re: [Connection] Does Comcast allow Clear QAM?

Thanks telcodad. It does look like only the ATSC tuner is required if the screen is labeled a TV. Most manufactures have included Clear QAM tuners as well though on their TV's though that may stop once everything is encrypted and they see there is really no market for QAM in the clear. When I worked at Best Buy some years ago, both were included in TV's. The only place I have seen ATSC only is in digital converter boxes that people used the government coupons for.

The other market now is for "Monitors" that are TV's without the tuners but all the video inputs and other connections like network built in. Forgo the tuners as most people will never use them as everything needs a box or a dongle plugged in.

Encrypted QAM with Cable Card Support may not survive too much longer either. QAM tuners should be more like cable modems so you don't need a special card to communicate. The provider could authenticate the MAC address to their system like they do with cable modems that are already on the same network.

It's interesting to see what Google has done with Sage TV and how they have integrated it into Google fiber. I was deciding between Windows Media Center and Sage TV and ultimately went with WMC. WMC works great with OTA. Cabale support is there but requires too much setup for most non-tech folks.

telcodad
MVM
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ

telcodad

MVM

With the recent passage of the STELAR bill, the FCC has now created the "Downloadable Security Technical Advisory Committee" (DSTAC) that will assist them in determining the successor to CableCARD:

Obama Signs CableCARD Death Warrant
By Mari Silbey, Light Reading - December 5, 2014
»www.lightreading.com/cab ··· d/712444

FCC Finalizing Downloadable Security Tech Committee
Comcast, Charter, AT&T, Cablevision Among Those Said To Be On List

By Jeff Baumgartner, Multichannel News - January 23, 2015
»www.multichannel.com/new ··· e/387194

'Black Box' Talk Dominates FCC's First DSTAC Meeting
Also Debates If OTT Should Be Part of Committee's Scope

By Jeff Baumgartner, Multichannel News - February 23, 2015
»www.multichannel.com/new ··· g/388266

andyross
MVM
join:2003-05-04
Aurora, IL

1 recommendation

andyross

MVM

Cable companies have been talking about cardless security for 10+ years. They constantly stall and delay so they don't give up the rental income.

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena

Premium Member

said by andyross:

Cable companies have been talking about cardless security for 10+ years. They constantly stall and delay so they don't give up the rental income.

"Cardless" is probably still a bit of time away.... but even "Cablecard" should have been upgraded to a better system ages ago. In Europe they use a new standard based on DVB that also allows guide information, interactive PPV purchases, on-demand and such things as long as the device that it is inserted in supports those things. TV's come with the slots, and Europe pretty much agreed on the standard continent-wide.

How the cards are billed is a different question, some charge a one-time-free of 25 EUR for a card and call it a day (and if the card breaks you just have to buy a new one), others charge 2 EUR per card per month, etc.

Advantage is that you can buy your own DVR that way, and there is actually competition in consumer-purchasable DVR's and such. Doesn't seem like cable companies in North America will be interested in that because they make a KILLING in rental income.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

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Re: Does Comcast allow Clear QAM?

said by F100:

Time Warner still has full analog and clear QAM in some markets as well like here in central NC. With the launch of Max internet speeds though, it won't be long before they follow in the footsteps of Comcast and move everything to encrypted digital.

Maxx is being deployed now on Oahu and the rest of the Hawaiian islands later this year. Oceanic is NOT moving to all digital according to management. Thank goodness! There are NO plans for Oceanic to go full digital anytime soon. It would be a nightmare just renegotiating all bulk contracts besides freaking out a lot of folks here who have analog. Of course, this could change but I am hoping we keep analog and clear QAM for a long time.

I watch nothing except broadcast channels in HD via clear QAM. I have bulk analog Standard package. The TWC tuner is HORRIBLE (I tried it) and in Hawaii most good channels on analog were deliberately left off the tuner. So, it is worthless. I am not going to pay for digital with that huge number of garbage cable channels when the ONLY channels I watch are ABC, CBS, NBC and PUBLIC. Plus, I don't want a cable box that is hideously ugly and full of cockroaches and that forces me to use the horrible Oceanic clicker instead of my Samung one. I am also praying hard that the gobble up of TWC by Comcast fails. I would prefer NO TV to only digital cable. I can't put any antenna on the roof as this is a condo building and dish is not available to this building due to no south facing windows.
floydb1982
join:2004-08-25
Kent, WA

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Re: [Connection] Does Comcast allow Clear QAM?

I live in the Kent, WA and I unhooked my Xfinity HD-uDTA-M from my 1080p HDTV and just hooked my 1080p HDTV directly to the wall and was able to get no channels what so ever at all. I even had my HDTV do a scan twice for all channels and it found no Standard or High Def channels what so ever at all. It was only when I hooked back up the HD-uDAT-M to my TV I was able to get channels in Standard and High Def but from the cable box only.

andyross
MVM
join:2003-05-04
Aurora, IL

andyross

MVM

By me, there is the OnDemand preview window and an EAS details channel that are ClearQAM.

fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium Member
join:2005-07-01
Palm Springs, CA
Hitron EN2251
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Re: Does Comcast allow Clear QAM?

said by telcodad:

some of the newer TV sets can also receive "over the internet" i.e., "Smart" TVs

Huh???? You must have a valid Wi-Fi connection, which is a short-range, localized set up, to connect a smart TV to the internet. That means you either need internet service to your home, or you're "borrowing" service from a neighbor.
fuziwuzi

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Re: [Connection] Does Comcast allow Clear QAM?

I know in Atlanta, Comcast began encrypting all of their channels last year, so now nothing is available in clear QAM. Which is why I now have a nice little flat-panel antenna in my closet to pick up the local channels. And the OTA signal is even better quality than what is delivered by Comcast.

F100
join:2013-01-15
Durham, NC
Alcatel-Lucent G-010G-A
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Pace 5268AC

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I also recently read that Google was going to be open sourcing the Sage TV platform that they bought which is the underpinnings for Goggle Fiber's TV service. If that platform could get Cable labs support for encryption, then it could become the new replacement for WMC since Microsoft had moved on from WMC.

WMC is great of over the Air ATSC. It works with Clear QAM but is a pain to get the channel mapping setup correctly. Guess I'm getting ready for my ATSC cut over as my area is going all digital in May/June to setup for TWC Max internet speed upgrades.