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Sanek
join:2006-08-10
Kanata, ON

1 edit

1 recommendation

Sanek to gojets

Member

to gojets

Re: [rCable] New Rogers Pricing and Speed Tiers.

I have both Start 60/10 (Thomson DCM476, 8d/3u channels) and Rogers 60/10 (Hitron CGN3, 20d/3u channels).

For those curious what the surface differences might be, I did a quick comparison for my setup, as I was curious as well.

Start:
Actual Speeds: 60Mbit down/10 Mbit up (as promised)
Speed Test: Speed test showed ~30 Mbit down/5 Mbit up instantly and gradually went up for both download and upload, until they maxed out at ~60 Mbit down / 10 Mbit up.
Ping: Very stable.
quote:
Google.ca: Minimum = 28ms, Maximum = 33ms, Average = 30ms
Start.ca: Minimum = 17ms, Maximum = 19ms, Average = 18ms
Rogers:
Actual Speeds: 100Mbit+ down/11.5 Mbit up (as promised, higher due to speed boost, some extra upload though)
Speed Test: Speed test showed ~70 Mbit down/8 Mbit up instantly, which grew to 100 Mbit+ down/11.5 Mbit up and was at 78 Mbit down/11.5 Mbit up by the end of the test, with the download speed dropping due to speed boost running out.
Ping: Jumpy, but relatively stable.
quote:
Google.ca: Minimum = 26ms, Maximum = 102ms, Average = 38ms
Start.ca: Minimum = 33ms, Maximum = 61ms, Average = 44ms
Overall, both seemed pretty stable, but it was interesting how the speed test over a Rogers connection started at ~70Mbit and went up due to speed boost, before slowly starting to drop again, while speed test over the Start connection started at ~30 Mbit and slowly went up to 60 Mbit over the duration of the test. Not quite sure why that would have happened - could that have something to do with 20 downstream channels?

Ping from the Start connection was way more stable than what I saw on the Rogers connection. Even though Rogers pings were OK, Start pings varied very little.

DavePC
join:2013-08-18
Scarborough, ON
Sagemcom F@st 5689
Technicolor CGM4331
Obihai OBi200

DavePC

Member

I doubt it's anything to do with the downstream channels, using an 8x4 Cisco Gateway in Bridge Mode over here, getting the same speedboost as you.

I don't know what start does, but I can verify that my friends with other TPIA services have the gradual increase as well.
Anzio
join:2008-11-22

Anzio

Member

Interesting. I don't remember seeing that. I recall our SpeedTests starting at about 57Mbps and quickly climbing to 60Mbps. I don't think I've ever seen them start out at 30Mbps. I'm not at home right now; however, next chance I get - I'll screen share with my folks and see if they see it. Curious.

Wonder if something has changed. I haven't ran a SpeedTest since I was home at Christmas.

damir
join:2013-12-12
CANADA

damir to Sanek

Member

to Sanek
said by Sanek:

Rogers:

quote:
Google.ca: Minimum = 26ms, Maximum = 102ms, Average = 38ms
Start.ca: Minimum = 33ms, Maximum = 61ms, Average = 44ms

Not sure why you are getting that high pings to google.

Rogers line (250\20 service)

C:\Windows\System32>ping google.ca -t
 
Pinging google.ca [66.185.84.49] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 66.185.84.49: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=59
Reply from 66.185.84.49: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=59
Reply from 66.185.84.49: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=59
Reply from 66.185.84.49: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=59
Reply from 66.185.84.49: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=59
Reply from 66.185.84.49: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=59
 
jdrom
join:2008-03-02
East York, ON

jdrom

Member

Not sure why both of you have such high pings to Google, for me on Start 60/10 I get:
quote:
Minimum = 7ms, Maximum = 19ms, Average = 9ms
I've always been impressed with the low latency provided by Cable, but from everything I've read, people claim VDSL is way better. On VMedia 50/10 VDSL I get:
quote:
Minimum = 18ms, Maximum = 43ms, Average = 24ms
My SpeedTests also start out at basically full speed, maybe 2Mbps increase after the first second.

Guess I'm outside of the "norm"

damir
join:2013-12-12
CANADA

damir

Member

Location matters, that is why!
Sanek
join:2006-08-10
Kanata, ON

Sanek to damir

Member

to damir
said by damir:

said by Sanek:

Rogers:

quote:
Google.ca: Minimum = 26ms, Maximum = 102ms, Average = 38ms
Start.ca: Minimum = 33ms, Maximum = 61ms, Average = 44ms

Not sure why you are getting that high pings to google.

Rogers line (250\20 service)

C:\Windows\System32>ping google.ca -t
 
Pinging google.ca [66.185.84.49] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 66.185.84.49: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=59
Reply from 66.185.84.49: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=59
Reply from 66.185.84.49: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=59
Reply from 66.185.84.49: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=59
Reply from 66.185.84.49: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=59
Reply from 66.185.84.49: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=59
 

I was using CGN3 in gateway mode, so perhaps its something stupid with that. I'll put it in bridge and retest later. My pings on Start are pretty good, but Rogers pings were jumpy. I also had a thought that there are a lot of different google servers, so there is a chance I got a bad one at one point. When I repeat the test, I'll make sure to ping the same servers by IP.

I'm in a pretty good area btw. I would not be surprised if I could max out whatever plan they give me. Must...resist...250/20 - man I hope CRTC makes some good decisions soon and we can get 250/20/unlimited on Start :D

damir
join:2013-12-12
CANADA

damir

Member

Yep, i've noticed with Rogers (as well) that, i was connecting to tons of different IPs (servers) compared to start.

10 ms or 30 ms, it really does not make any difference for browsing, especially not for google and their content.
Sanek
join:2006-08-10
Kanata, ON

Sanek

Member

said by damir:

Yep, i've noticed with Rogers (as well) that, i was connecting to tons of different IPs (servers) compared to start.

10 ms or 30 ms, it really does not make any difference for browsing, especially not for google and their content.

Yes, but I do care if I were to do some online gaming (which i don't do much these days) or for other time-critical applications. When I did the Rogers ping earlier, there were a few 100+ ms spikes and a couple of time-outs.

Read in the Rogers forum that turning off the gateway mode on CGN3 might help with the pings, so will try that later:
»Just moved to u250..

intranet
@shawcable.net

intranet

Anon

That will definitely help, but Rogers routing is quite a bit wonkier than Starts to some servers. Pings sometimes spike, and it is difficult to find out why.

jmck
formerly 'shaded'
join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON

jmck

Member

Rogers's peering is pretty rough, and they buy transit from less carriers.

damir
join:2013-12-12
CANADA

damir to Sanek

Member

to Sanek
said by Sanek:

said by damir:

Yep, i've noticed with Rogers (as well) that, i was connecting to tons of different IPs (servers) compared to start.

10 ms or 30 ms, it really does not make any difference for browsing, especially not for google and their content.

Yes, but I do care if I were to do some online gaming (which i don't do much these days) or for other time-critical applications. When I did the Rogers ping earlier, there were a few 100+ ms spikes and a couple of time-outs.

Read in the Rogers forum that turning off the gateway mode on CGN3 might help with the pings, so will try that later:
»Just moved to u250..

I completely understand.

To be honest with you, only game i play at the moment is World of Tanks, and to be honest (again) - i get better ping \ stable compared to Start.

Lots of times i had to talk to Rocca to fix the routing to Wargaming, where, i only complained once to Rogers about routing to Wargaming (months ago) - and since then it was stable.
They did re-route the traffic via different route, and as i said, all good.

Probably Rogers chooses less expensive uplinks (compared to what is start using) , but, i think ( might be wrong ) this is due to cost, as i don't think bandwidth (what is used @ rogers and what is used @ start can't be compared).

latency
@lakeheadu.ca

latency

Anon

DSL is still the answer for stable pings. My rCable Start connection, and my Rogers connection have nothing on my Start DSL connection

damir
join:2013-12-12
CANADA

damir

Member

Well, i don't find Cable pings any critical, to be honest with you.

If i am to chose between 10 mbit (that i can get from DSL) or 250-320 (that i can get from Cable), its gonna be Cable all the way.

Using cable for years now, work, games, personal use, no issues whatsoever, i am very happy with stability, pings, value.

DSL (in my own opinion - at least for now, until \ if ever *they change something that can offer similar speeds to Cable*) is history.

WiFi
It's In The Air
join:2002-06-06
NiagaraFalls

WiFi to iw

Member

to iw
So you would go back to the incumbent to save a few bucks? That your only reason? If so, you're wearing blinders. I've been with Start going on 3 years. Installation was 100%. Happy with speeds. VERY HAPPY with service...because I NEVER have to call them! Start is like the energizer bunny...it just keeps working. That is WORTH MORE to me than saving a few bucks and knowing that the incumbent will eventually shaft me again.
WiFi

WiFi to jibby

Member

to jibby
There are a few things you don't know about Rocca. If you did, you would not have written this. Start isn't going anywhere. Rocca is in this for the long haul.

rocca
Start.ca
Premium Member
join:2008-11-16
London, ON

rocca to gojets

Premium Member

to gojets
said by gojets:

Hi Rocca, how long realistically before you can offer new plans based on the agreed rates?

Sorry, a little gun-shy at giving timeline estimates - I'm sure someone will post a recent link as to why.

As for a high-level view, the 100/10 still has the same problem with the 24x8 modem which is something we're actively working on. As for the 15/1, we're struggling with the same issue we had when Cogeco changed their basic plan, specifically, should we continue to offer a lower price entry on a 10/1 product (which technically we have the capability of doing) or should we follow suit and offer a 15/1 albeit probably requiring a higher price. While we haven't made a decision yet, personally, I think it's important to have an affordable entry point that suits the needs of many Canadians.

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

3 edits

Davesnothere

Premium Member

said by rocca:

....As for the 15/1, we're struggling with the same issue we had when Cogeco changed their basic plan, specifically, should we continue to offer a lower price entry on a 10/1 product (which technically we have the capability of doing), or should we follow suit and offer a 15/1 albeit probably requiring a higher price.

While we haven't made a decision yet, personally, I think it's important to have an affordable entry point that suits the needs of many Canadians.

 
The high-end plans do not interest everyone, but....

Would it be possible/worthwhile to offer a 10 plan AND a 15 thru cCable ?

(maybe a 10/1/100 and a 15/2/150 ?)

Would your technology let this happen ?

Would it cause insanity in the accounting dept ?

(And I realize that we are in a thread for rCable.)

Or what about a 15/5 plan of some kind on cCable, to sort of do a spread of various upstream speeds similar to what Rogers offers.

EDIT : to UN-inject 'cCable' in my quote

LondonDave
Premium Member
join:2011-09-05
London, ON

LondonDave

Premium Member

For the sake of new followers we are still talking about Rcable correct?

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

Davesnothere

Premium Member

 
Yes, the thread is supposed to be about rCable, but Da Boss digressed first.

rocca
Start.ca
Premium Member
join:2008-11-16
London, ON

rocca

Premium Member

No I didn't, I used a recent example with another carrier to indicate we were facing a similar situation with the subject of this topic.

But to answer your off-topic question (teasing) ... we've always tried to keep things simple and 10 and 15 are too similar to for us to market as distinct plans, especially when costing is already so close between existing tiers. It's the same reason we don't offer 7 or 10 on DSL as there aren't enough significant cost differentiators to distinguish an already narrow speed and price differences between plans.

»www.nytimes.com/2010/02/ ··· uts.html
rocca

rocca to LondonDave

Premium Member

to LondonDave
said by LondonDave:

For the sake of new followers we are still talking about Rcable correct?

I am, yes.

jasmo34
join:2008-03-20
~ London ~

jasmo34 to Davesnothere

Member

to Davesnothere
Wait a second...

DNH... Did YOU inject the "cCABLE" in your quote of Rocca? That's quite improper.

I believe Rocca is talking about the new Rogers 15/1 speed, now available to TPIA's.

rocca
Start.ca
Premium Member
join:2008-11-16
London, ON

rocca

Premium Member

said by jasmo34:

DNH... Did YOU inject the "cCABLE" in your quote of Rocca? That's quite improper.

Yikes, didn't even notice that.
said by jasmo34:

I believe Rocca is talking about the new Rogers 15/1 speed, now available to TPIA's.

Correct.

jasmo34
join:2008-03-20
~ London ~

jasmo34

Member

DNH... "UN-injection" recognized, and accepted!

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

Davesnothere to jasmo34

Premium Member

to jasmo34
said by jasmo34:

Wait a second...

DNH... Did YOU inject the "cCABLE" in your quote of Rocca? That's quite improper.

I believe Rocca is talking about the new Rogers 15/1 speed, now available to TPIA's.

 
Consider it UN-injected.

I had not heard that Rogers had done this.

My read was that it must have been Cogeco, as his sentence continued with their name.

But in that case, his response would seem to be applicable to both carriers, regarding START not seeing much point in having both a 10 and a 15 plan.

Though I did offer an idea as to how to differentiate them more, in terms of the upstream speeds, more like in the various Rogers tiers ( no response so far to that particular comment ).
Davesnothere

Davesnothere to jasmo34

Premium Member

to jasmo34
said by jasmo34:

DNH... "UN-injection" recognized, and accepted!

 
How'd you do that ?

I hadn't finished writing the post where I drew attention to that, and made my tirade of excuses.

jasmo34
join:2008-03-20
~ London ~

jasmo34

Member

I'm on Start DSL... I invoked the time-warp option!

rocca
Start.ca
Premium Member
join:2008-11-16
London, ON

1 edit

rocca to Davesnothere

Premium Member

to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:

in terms of the upstream speeds, more like in the various Rogers tiers

It'd be a zero cost difference to us so it'd be strictly an artificial limitation, which ain't my style. And probably still too similar to really differentiate it. When we offered the optional 10Mbps upload on the 25/2 package then that was pretty substantial.
said by Davesnothere:

no response so far to that particular comment

Still off-topic, but hey...

Okay, now returning to the thread at hand - aka, please ignore the previous 11 comments.

edit: Corrected count.

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

Davesnothere

Premium Member

 
Actually, it's more than 7, but you were not in a position to say/do much in response to the latest ON-topic questions, so yer welcome for my bringing something to discuss where you DO have autonomy.