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LZYKNOWLEDGE
join:2015-03-02
Wasaga Beach, ON

LZYKNOWLEDGE to Trentelshark

Member

to Trentelshark

Re: How can Bell Compete?

I am going to tell you this, your down south big difference compared to direction of North on your compass. More people south than North and 2+2=4 Even in new area's in North bay still on old copper Need to get out more out of the area's close to major cities and you will see the difference

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to LZYKNOWLEDGE

Premium Member

to LZYKNOWLEDGE
said by LZYKNOWLEDGE:

"bell hasn't laid copper in a new subdivision", o they still do buddy, especially up north still. Need to get out more

"Up North" is BARC, not Bell Canada. You need to learn the difference

And even then, in any semi-major regional centre in Northern Ontario where services are preeminently aerial due to geology, I find it exceptionally hard to believe that they would ever run copper. Especially when BARC has been one of the most gung-ho with brownfield FTTH.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

1 recommendation

HeadSpinning to LZYKNOWLEDGE

Member

to LZYKNOWLEDGE
said by LZYKNOWLEDGE:

I have talked to the CEO from Bell who lives in my area and it's not cheap material

I have purchased and installed more fibre in the last 12 months than you'll ever buy in your lifetime. Meter for meter, fibre is significantly cheaper than copper.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to LZYKNOWLEDGE

Premium Member

to LZYKNOWLEDGE
said by LZYKNOWLEDGE:

Even in new area's in North bay still on old copper

Bull Shit. BARC has been overlaying North Bay with brownfield FTTH. There is no way "new areas" are going to have copper, and even if they did they would have already been overlaid with fibre.

Troll troll troll troll.
LZYKNOWLEDGE
join:2015-03-02
Wasaga Beach, ON

LZYKNOWLEDGE

Member

Nope not yet Ethier way, what does it take to have Rogers to come in and single handily take Bell customers from dsl/adsl/vdsl? To do ftth is expensive. I know that there are area's in Nobelton,Ontario that don't even have DSL but only phone service
LZYKNOWLEDGE

LZYKNOWLEDGE

Member

Nobleton, Ontario is still within Bell Canada District!!
LZYKNOWLEDGE

LZYKNOWLEDGE to HeadSpinning

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to HeadSpinning
If fibre was so cheap, cheaper than copper than everyone would be on fibre right NOW but in reality it is not cheap
Anzio
join:2008-11-22

Anzio to Mish

Member

to Mish
Even our small municipal telephone company is deploying fibre. I hardly think they wouldn't balance their options for the most cost effective deployment solution. Copper is expensive, no matter its use.

Except you're trying to say copper is cheaper, when really you mean that there are just more places outfitted with legacy copper. I don't think many (if any) areas are dropping new copper for new neighborhoods. There are more areas with copper deployed; however, that doesn't mean copper is cheaper.
LZYKNOWLEDGE
join:2015-03-02
Wasaga Beach, ON

LZYKNOWLEDGE

Member

Than why in certain area's in Nobleton, Ontario only have telephone service?

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to LZYKNOWLEDGE

Premium Member

to LZYKNOWLEDGE
said by LZYKNOWLEDGE:

Nobleton, Ontario is still within Bell Canada District!!

Nobelton is not "North" it's GTA. New areas with services laid post-2010 would be fibre.
Anzio
join:2008-11-22

Anzio to Mish

Member

to Mish
FWIW, we are covered by Tbaytel in Thunder Bay. They are deploying fibre throughout the city. I think we count as North.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

said by Anzio:

FWIW, we are covered by Tbaytel in Thunder Bay. They are deploying fibre throughout the city. I think we count as North.

Sault Ste Marie, North Bay, Sudbury and Timmins all have brownfield FTTH. Northern Ontario is ahead of the South when it comes to percentage of homes passed by fibre. Southern Ontario is only now starting to see any significant brownfield deployment activity.
LZYKNOWLEDGE
join:2015-03-02
Wasaga Beach, ON

LZYKNOWLEDGE to Anzio

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to Anzio
I am not saying that it's not happening LOL I am saying that are area's that don't have it right now and to bring it into area's like Mattawa, Ontario where I have property is not cost effective because there is not enough people.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

You said Nobleton before.

And with fibre being cheaper than copper, even new subdivisions in rural areas are getting FTTH. There's no copper anywhere in these new areas.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

2 recommendations

HeadSpinning to LZYKNOWLEDGE

Member

to LZYKNOWLEDGE
said by LZYKNOWLEDGE:

If fibre was so cheap, cheaper than copper than everyone would be on fibre right NOW but in reality it is not cheap

The fibre isn't the expensive part - it's the CONSTRUCTION TO INSTALL IT. The reason everyone is not on fibre now, is there is EXISTING COPPER THAT IS ALREADY PAID FOR. The cost to REPLACE it is huge.

You're just not getting, or you're intentionally not getting in order to troll.. not sure which it is, but the important point is that meter for meter, copper is more expensive than fibre - but if you have to go and REPLACE existing copper with fibre, you're going to be spending a LOT of money, because the construction costs are high - no matter what you're installing.
LZYKNOWLEDGE
join:2015-03-02
Wasaga Beach, ON

LZYKNOWLEDGE

Member

Let me ask you this. Has Bell not installed pvc pipe to nodes on the street to easily fish in future fibre? If they didn't it's not smart

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

They did here in subdivisions where services were laid in the early 2000s, so I guess they're smarter than you think.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning

Member

said by Gone:

They did here in subdivisions where services were laid in the early 2000s, so I guess they're smarter than you think.

My subdivision, built in the early 90's was direct buried copper. Cogeco has been installing CIC (Coax In Conduit) for a while - but more for added mechanical protection, rather than the ability to change media. The switch to FTTH for new builds seems to have started around 2011/2012 around here. There are a few streets that were serviced a while back, but no houses built until recently that are all on copper still.
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Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

2 edits

Gone to HeadSpinning

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to HeadSpinning

Re: How can Bell Compete?

said by HeadSpinning:

My subdivision, built in the early 90's was direct buried copper. Cogeco has been installing CIC (Coax In Conduit) for a while - but more for added mechanical protection, rather than the ability to change media. The switch to FTTH for new builds seems to have started around 2011/2012 around here. There are a few streets that were serviced a while back, but no houses built until recently that are all on copper still.

There's subdivisions up in St. Catharines that were the same way, services laid before but construction didn't start for a while after. The copper was, however, laid in conduit for both Bell and Cogeco. Stuff from the 80s and 90s is direct buried, there probably wasn't the foresight to do anything better like there would have been in the 2000s before the switchout to fibre.

Edit - knowing this, I wouldn't be surprised if Garrison Village Phase II here in Fort Erie is easily switched to FTTH as it's all buried in conduit. Phase I on the other hand I still question and wonder if they'll end up with FTTN.
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moon_1b
join:2001-11-23
Corunna, ON

moon_1b to Gone

Member

to Gone

Re: How can Bell Compete?

said by Gone:

said by LZYKNOWLEDGE:

In your world fibre is cheaper Life is bliss

Not just my world. Everyone's world. This is why Bell hasn't laid copper in a new subdivision since 2010.

They're still happily laying copper in my area (Sarnia-Lambton) Hundreds of new homes in multiple subdivisions around here, all copper. Not even FTTN, ancient 6meg DSL I wish someone would explain this one to me.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

Sarnia is BARC, not Bell Canada. And even then, it's possible for services to be set up and installed years before a subdivision ever breaks ground. There's a subdivision here in Fort Erie (well, Crystal Beach if you want to get technical) that is only just starting to see houses built but the services were installed years ago and are all copper.

moon_1b
join:2001-11-23
Corunna, ON

moon_1b

Member

Hmm. Aliant makes sense. But i can assure you these lots were just serviced. The area behind my house in Corunna was a bean field for as long as I remember (25+ years) before the new subdivision went in. This is the same with new developments in Sarnia I'm familiar with. As far as I know there is no fibre deployment or plans to do so anywhere in this area. I would assume Cogeco is cleaning up around here and obviously Aliant is just fine with that.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

I took a look through Google, you talking down off St. Clair? That looks like it is just an extension of the existing subdivision that was laid our a lot earlier. There isn't a new OPI or anything for it.

If you take a look at this here: »www.google.ca/maps/@42.9 ··· !3m1!1e3 everything on Old Mill Road and to the east is copper, whereas everything to the west behind it is FTTH. It looks like one subdivision, but is actually two. The CSP for the west side is here: »www.google.ca/maps/@42.9 ··· 9D1Q!2e0 The west side was laid out in ~2011ish, the east side in the mid-2000s.

moon_1b
join:2001-11-23
Corunna, ON

moon_1b

Member

Yep thats it off St. Clair, and yes the west side of that subdivision has been there 10+ years. Guess I won't hold out hope around here as basically everything that could be developed in Corunna would be considered an extension of a subdivision as this whole town is one big subdivision. Spent the last little while poking around google maps at the new houses' addresses going up in Sarnia/Bright's Grove/Wyoming and checking them on the bell site, nothing but 5Mbps everywhere. If there's better than that anywhere around I'd like to hear it just for my own amusement, but I won't hold my breath. All the wires are buried around here so an aerial overlay is out, guess it's cogeco for the next decade or two.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

Bell's deploying underground overlay fibre here in Fort Erie. This is what it looks like: »www.google.ca/maps/@42.9 ··· rlrg!2e0 (albeit there are some areas that have peds just like what they do in new subdivisons, that neighbourhood with the ground vaults has a mixture of both: »www.google.ca/maps/@42.9 ··· rN-A!2e0). Being in BARC territory may change things but it's certainly going to happen a lot sooner than a decade or two.
wayner92
join:2006-01-17
Toronto, ON

wayner92 to Knopflerfan

Member

to Knopflerfan
said by Knopflerfan :

I will never again go to Cable but at this point DSL is being sadly left in the dust and it bugs me.

Why not because of congestion? That doesn't happen anymore - this isn't 2004. For the higher end packages Rogers uses 24x8 modems. Each of the 24 channels can handle about 40 Mbps - so there is a ton of overhead. I switched from Bell to Rogers years ago and I very rarely get under my rated speed. I think the biggest bottleneck is my router as it can "only" handle around 250Mbps whereas with a direct connection I pretty much always get 320 Mbps vs a rated spped of 250.
btech805
join:2013-08-01
Canada

btech805 to moon_1b

Member

to moon_1b
It goes by how old the development is, not the home. If the development was begun prior to 2010/2011 (as many were here in Ottawa), then all new houses built within that development will continue to get copper because that's what was laid when the roads and utilities were put in.
Ive seen plenty of brand new homes myself put up with copper (both FTTN and co-based) thats ive installed in. It goes by the age of the development or phase of development. Heck, i installed 5 meg co-based DSL last week in a brand new house in Rockland last week. The house was just finished and there were a few dozen surrounding it under construction, but the development was started in 2009. Phase 2 which is starting this spring, will be FTTH.

What the developer is willing to pay also factors in too as Bell pays next to nothing out of pocket when wiring up a neighborhood, the developer pays it all and then passes the costs on to the home buyers. However, as has been mentioned several times in this thread, foot to foot, fiber is cheaper than copper.
wayner92
join:2006-01-17
Toronto, ON

wayner92

Member

said by btech805:

i installed 5 meg co-based DSL last week

This would seriously prevent me from buying a house in this area. 5Meg wired internet in 2015 is a joke. Am I correct in assuming that in such homes they install only phone or cable, not both?