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John97
Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium Member
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL

John97

Premium Member

[Plumbing] Cold water shutoff for washing machine


Cold water shutoff
I'm trying to figure out if there is anything I can even attempt in regards to fixing this myself, so I figured I'd snap a picture and share it here.

The knob/shaft just turns and turns, can't turn the water off. I cut away the drywall above the pipe to see what's there. The copper comes out of the block wall between my house and garage. There's a bunch of caulk that was squirted in around the hole in the drywall.

My inclination is to just call a plumber.

BTW, I have no idea why the picture is sideways in this post. It's fine on my phone and on my PC if I just open the file.

garys_2k
Premium Member
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI

garys_2k

Premium Member

That valve looks to be threaded onto the pipe behind it so it shouldn't be too hard to take off, if you want to DIY. One pipe wrench to hold the pipe as close to the wall as possible and another to turn the valve counter-clockwise to remove it. Clean and put new pipe dope on the threads, screw on the new valve, and check for leaks. Assuming none repair the wall and job done.

tschmidt
MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Consolidated Com..
·Republic Wireless
·Hollis Hosting

tschmidt to John97

MVM

to John97
Hard to tell exactly what is behind the wall but it looks like a regular boiler drain (hose bib) with a 1/2" thread (perhaps 3/4"). Be easy to replace it, rather then trying to rebuild the valve.

If it were my house I'd replace both hot and cold with 1/4 turn valves. When you attempt to remove the old value use a wrench to hold the female fitting in the wall so you don't apply too much torque to the fitting. New valve and some Teflon tape and you should be good to go.

Be a good idea to add a strainer to each hose at the valve rather then the washer to catch any crud in the lines. Easier to access at the shutoff then the washer.

While you are at it I'd replace the washer hoses with ones with a stainless steel outer braid for increased resistance to leaks.

/tom

tp0d
yabbazooie
Premium Member
join:2001-02-13
Bulger, PA

tp0d to John97

Premium Member

to John97
Nope.. Valve is sweated on.

John- if you own a pipe cutter, you may be able to clean up the crap on the existing valve, cut it off with minimal pipe lost, and put a new sharkbite female fitting on, then screw in a 1/2" boiler drain, 1/4 turn style.

Of course, you`ll have to drain the whole house to do this..

Might be easier with a plumber, just make sure he puts in female adapters, and then uses 1/2" threaded 1/4 turn boiler drains on it, so if one ever fails in the future, all you do is unscrew it, and replace. Do both hot and cold at the same time

good luck

-j

John97
Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium Member
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL

John97 to garys_2k

Premium Member

to garys_2k
said by garys_2k:

That valve looks to be threaded onto the pipe behind it so it shouldn't be too hard to take off, if you want to DIY. One pipe wrench to hold the pipe as close to the wall as possible and another to turn the valve counter-clockwise to remove it. Clean and put new pipe dope on the threads, screw on the new valve, and check for leaks. Assuming none repair the wall and job done.

I think those threads are part of the valve itself, like this and it's actually soldered onto the pipe.

EDIT: Thanks tp0d. That's what I thought...

Nope, not going to F around with this myself. And, I'll definitely have the plumber do both.

tschmidt
MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Consolidated Com..
·Republic Wireless
·Hollis Hosting

tschmidt

MVM

said by John97:

I think those threads are part of the valve itself, like this and it's actually soldered onto the pipe.

That is a possibility some valves have male NPT threads and internally sweat fitting. If they are sweated on that makes changing them more difficult.

/tom

garys_2k
Premium Member
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI

garys_2k

Premium Member

+1
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt to John97

Member

to John97
said by John97:

The knob/shaft just turns and turns, can't turn the water off.

Check out one of the hose shutoff's shown here as an example:

»www.lowes.com/Watering-I ··· llar|1#!

I had a problem like you had a long time ago, when I moved into a house with many plumbing problems. I used the straight through type of shutoff. At the time I purchased the shutoff all parts were brass. See if you can get a shutoff with all brass parts for strength.

shdesigns
Powered By Infinite Improbabilty Drive
Premium Member
join:2000-12-01
Stone Mountain, GA
(Software) pfSense
ARRIS SB6121

shdesigns to John97

Premium Member

to John97
That might be soldered on. It is hard to tell with the caulk around the base. If you clean it off, you might see it soldered or a male NPT fitting soldered on the pipe.

Adding a shutoff sounds like a simple idea. Another option may be taking the valve apart and replacing the guts.

cowboyro
Premium Member
join:2000-10-11
CT

cowboyro to John97

Premium Member

to John97
Sweating pipes is trivial if you manage to get past the nay-sayers ("you'll burn the house", "you'll have a leak and insurance won't cover").
Just get a decent torch, it will make your life much easier. Make sure you have a pipe brush and flux. All the supplies will cost you less than half of the labor for a plumber.

Jack in VA
Premium Member
join:2014-07-07
North, VA

2 edits

Jack in VA to John97

Premium Member

to John97
OP this is what you need. A half-turn ball Female NPT vale. Take a small pipe wrench or good channel lock and unscrew the existing valve careful not to put torque on the threaded extension coming out of the wall. Clean up the threads with a wire brush and use pipe dope or Teflon tape on the extension before installing the new valve.

On a side note those hoses look like they are very old design. I'd replace them with new washer braided SS Hoses.
tomupnorth
join:2005-01-14
UpperMidwest

tomupnorth to cowboyro

Member

to cowboyro
said by cowboyro:

Just get a decent torch, it will make your life much easier.

What would folks recommend for "a decent torch". I watch Richard on Ask This Old House and he makes it look so easy...

cowboyro
Premium Member
join:2000-10-11
CT

cowboyro

Premium Member

said by tomupnorth:

What would folks recommend for "a decent torch". I watch Richard on Ask This Old House and he makes it look so easy...

I have this one »www.lowes.com/pd_387416- ··· 50126389
No issue soldering 1" pipe.

Msradell
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

2 recommendations

Msradell to Mr Matt

Premium Member

to Mr Matt
said by Mr Matt:

Check Out one of The hose shutoff's shown here as an example:

»www.lowes.com/Watering-I ··· llar|1#!

I had a problem like you had a long time ago, when I moved into a house with many plumbing problems. I used the straight through type of shutoff. At the time I purchased the shutoff all parts were brass. See if you can get a shutoff with all brass parts for strength.

the ones on that page are junk! They are designed for outside use for sprinkler hoses and are not designed to be constantly pressurized. They also are not designed to be used inside your home and are very prone to failure.

Jack in VA
Premium Member
join:2014-07-07
North, VA

Jack in VA to John97

Premium Member

to John97
OP I don't know why the discussion on torches. You don't need one unless you break the pipe coming through the wall and have to repair the copper line. Just turn the water off and drain the pressure off and carefully unscrew the old valve and replace it with a new brass 1/2 turn ball valve. It should be a very easy repair.
tomupnorth
join:2005-01-14
UpperMidwest

tomupnorth to cowboyro

Member

to cowboyro
said by cowboyro:

said by tomupnorth:

What would folks recommend for "a decent torch". I watch Richard on Ask This Old House and he makes it look so easy...

I have this one »www.lowes.com/pd_387416- ··· 50126389
No issue soldering 1" pipe.

Thanks a lot cowboyro. I have a cheap propane torch and now know what I'll get to replace it!
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt to Msradell

Member

to Msradell
said by Msradell:

the ones on that page are junk!

I agree, that is why I recommended a high quality all brass shutoff. I used one that included a globe valve and brass female connector. That was in 1980.
Mr Matt

Mr Matt to John97

Member

to John97
 
 
Here is an alternative:

»www.lowes.com/pd_248916- ··· cetInfo=

»www.lowes.com/pd_34763-1 ··· cetInfo=

Some assembly required!

Don't forget the Teflon Tape.

Jack in VA
Premium Member
join:2014-07-07
North, VA

Jack in VA

Premium Member

The top fitting is not what OP has. He has a copper pipe to male NPT thread fitting. The bottom fitting is the same as I posted except for the shut off handle.

pende_tim
Premium Member
join:2004-01-04
Selbyville, DE

pende_tim to Jack in VA

Premium Member

to Jack in VA
I think it has been established that the 1/2" copper is sweated into the valve. I have a bunch of valves like that in my house also. The plumber saved ,what?,~$1.00 per connection by not having to use a sweat x FPT adapter. Now a PITA for the next guy having to work at at painted/wall paper finished wall.

John97
Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium Member
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL

1 edit

John97 to Jack in VA

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to Jack in VA
Thanks for all the replies. I am going to try and scrape all the crap off there and get a better idea of what's really there.

Regarding the washer hoses, they aren't old. They are the factory hoses that came with my LG steam frontloading washer. But, they are getting replaced anyway. We bought a newer Samsung set from a neighbor who was moving out of state. The LG is going to my stepdaughter who currently has an apartment. They charge $25/month to supply a washer/dryer in her apartment. She'll save some coin by inheriting our LG set.

Jack in VA
Premium Member
join:2014-07-07
North, VA

Jack in VA to pende_tim

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to pende_tim
said by pende_tim:

I think it has been established that the 1/2" copper is sweated into the valve. I have a bunch of valves like that in my house also. The plumber saved ,what?,~$1.00 per connection by not having to use a sweat x FPT adapter. Now a PITA for the next guy having to work at at painted/wall paper finished wall.

I don't think we've established that. As anyone can see the valve is a female NPT and the Male NPT is a copper pipe to NPT adapter. The valve is screwed on the threaded adapter.
walta
join:2001-05-22
Saint Louis, MO

walta to John97

Member

to John97
If it were mine and the valve was a threaded on the pipe I would replace the valve with a new valve.

If the valve is solder on I would try repairing it. Is the shaft turning with the knob?

There is not much to the valves. Do you know where the main valve is? If you turn off the main and open a tap does the water completely stop coming out of the tap?

If the main will not stop the flow I think you should call a plumber.

Walta

robbin
Mod
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX

2 recommendations

robbin to Jack in VA

Mod

to Jack in VA
said by Jack in VA:

As anyone can see the valve is a female NPT and the Male NPT is a copper pipe to NPT adapter.

No, the valve is male NPT and solder and it was soldered directly to copper.



Jack in VA
Premium Member
join:2014-07-07
North, VA

Jack in VA

Premium Member

Baloney. No the valve is female NPT and the pipe out of the wall is male NPT. It is not soldered. No one in their right mind solders a brass valve directly to a copper pipe unless they're doing a hack job. I've soldered many copper to npt pipe male adapters on and then screwed the hose bib on. You can either have a male npt adapter to female npt on the valve or female valve to male npt adapter. Either would work equally well making the valve easily replaceable.

pende_tim
Premium Member
join:2004-01-04
Selbyville, DE

1 recommendation

pende_tim

Premium Member

Click for full size
Click for full size
As I said in an earlier post I have the same setup in my house in a few spots..

At least AUD ( plumber ) was kind enough to leave a stub out from the wall so I can make repairs is needed.

robbin
Mod
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX

1 recommendation

robbin to Jack in VA

Mod

to Jack in VA
said by Jack in VA:

No one in their right mind solders a brass valve directly to a copper pipe unless they're doing a hack job.

Or a plumber who want to make sure that it takes more skill and tools than a couple of wrenches to replace it. Like it or not, I've seen it done many times and it was always done by a plumber, not a hack. It actually takes more time to solder it directly as the valve has to be disassembled before soldering.

Jack in VA
Premium Member
join:2014-07-07
North, VA

Jack in VA

Premium Member

said by robbin:

said by Jack in VA:

No one in their right mind solders a brass valve directly to a copper pipe unless they're doing a hack job.

Or a plumber who want to make sure that it takes more skill and tools than a couple of wrenches to replace it. Like it or not, I've seen it done many times and it was always done by a plumber, not a hack. It actually takes more time to solder it directly as the valve has to be disassembled before soldering.

Plumber or not it's still a hack job and something that is very difficult to repair/replace the the valve. Here's what I put in for mine.

pende_tim
Premium Member
join:2004-01-04
Selbyville, DE

pende_tim to robbin

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to robbin
said by robbin:

It actually takes more time to solder it directly as the valve has to be disassembled before soldering.

Or the valve unseated and a wet rag over the discharge end.....Time is of the essence, we get paid by the job, not the hour. LOL

Jack in VA
Premium Member
join:2014-07-07
North, VA

Jack in VA to pende_tim

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to pende_tim
said by pende_tim:

As I said in an earlier post I have the same setup in my house in a few spots..

At least AUD ( plumber ) was kind enough to leave a stub out from the wall so I can make repairs is needed.

Yes looks like he left you some slack but would not it be better having the valves screw into an adapter on the pipes? Would make it very easy to replace the valve with a 1/2 turn ball valve.