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to garys_2k
Re: [Plumbing] Cold water shutoff for washing machinesaid by garys_2k:That does seem to the plumbing equivalent of using backstabs on electrical devices. That's the way I'm thinking. Legal but un-professional on the craftsman's part. |
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 Msradell
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY |
to garys_2k
said by garys_2k:That does seem to the plumbing equivalent of using backstabs on electrical devices. I would actually consider sharkbite fittings the equivalent of backstabs although they work much better. Soldering piping together is definitely old-school in a long time except the process, not something that was come up with to save time or make things easier which is why we have backstabs! |
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1 recommendation |
Soldering is not old school but most "plumbers" don't have the skill needed to solder properly because apprentice training is mostly non existent. You can do a job "quick" and then you can do a job "right". Depends on whether the person doing it cares. Any jackleg can stick a sharkbite on or stick a wire in a backstab. That's the quality of work we get now. |
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Boooost to garys_2k
Anon
2015-Mar-7 4:00 pm
to garys_2k
said by garys_2k:That does seem to the plumbing equivalent of using backstabs on electrical devices. That would be the "hydro equivalent". Urp! |
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 John97Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium Member
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL |
to garys_2k
said by robbin:Stems can be replaced. Everyone has apparently written it off as unrepairable without dis-assembly. I don't think we have enough information to make that judgement and I don't think the OP has determined that conclusively from what has been posted. said by garys_2k:Yeah, should be easy enough to remove the handle and packing nut to see what's going on in there. If it is a broken stem then replacing that would be simpler than fiddling with the piping. Tomorrow, I'm going to shut off the water, unscrew the hose from the back of the washer and stick it in the laundry sink to drain. I'll try removing the handle and packing nut to see what's going on there. I am definitely open to repairing the valve if it's possible... Stay tuned... FWIW, as far as I can tell these valves are original to the house. |
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That's the way to go, if you can do it. Super easy. |
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to John97
said by John97: I'll try removing the handle and packing nut to see what's going on there. One down one to go.  /tom |
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 Hawk
Premium Member
join:2003-08-25 |
to robbin
said by robbin:Stems can be replaced. Everyone has apparently written it off as unrepairable without dis-assembly. I don't think we have enough information to make that judgement and I don't think the OP has determined that conclusively from what has been posted. That's the way most of us old school guys were taught. Disassemble, replace the seat or reface it, flat washer, packing's, O-rings, stem if required, wire brush the crap out off of it, lube and reassemble providing we didn't just replace the entire part. Occasionally, I'd rob a new stem and bonnet off a like for like bib while on site and renewed it when I got back to the shop. Carried a large assortment of those parts on board in job boxes by P&M or whomever. The problem these days is those old-style bibs are difficult if not impossible to get the internal parts and nothing interchanges with them between other brands like the old days. Most don't even have replaceable seats anymore. Sure, you can replace flat washers, O-rings and such but try and find a bonnet or stem for some of those old valves. The beauty of DYI is you can do anything you're capable of to save some money. The pro has to perform with the mindset of a warranty/guarantee among other things upon completion. Quickly eats up any profits quick if you have to keep going back on the same issue for free. Probably somewhat explains the variety of responses and posts to an OP. Two different ballgames. But you're right, not enough info initially to properly diagnose the issue without taking it apart. |
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John97Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium Member
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL |
to tschmidt
I turned the water off to the house, flushed the toilets, and ran the sink in the laundry room to drain everything. I got the valve apart. I'm heading to Lowes/Depot now to see if I can get repair parts. |
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John97
4 recommendations |
John97
Premium Member
2015-Mar-8 1:31 pm
Update: I'm finished with this. I've thrown in the towel and am calling a plumber tomorrow.
The valve stem just spins and spins. Either the threading inside the valve body or on the stem itself is worn/stripped to the point where it just slips when it should be bottomed out when the valve is off.
I saw the same valve at Lowes and bought it thinking I could maybe swap the stem. But, they've since changed the design from a coarse to a fine thread, so that didn't work.
With only and inch and a half of copper coming out of the block wall, I am afraid to screw with it any further.
Thanks for all of the replies and efforts to help.
And yes, I am having the plumber also do the hot side. I'm also going to insist that the replacement valves can easily be removed/replaced by me in the future. |
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said by John97:Update: I'm finished with this. I've thrown in the towel and am calling a plumber tomorrow.
The valve stem just spins and spins. Either the threading inside the valve body or on the stem itself is worn/stripped to the point where it just slips when it should be bottomed out when the valve is off.
I saw the same valve at Lowes and bought it thinking I could maybe swap the stem. But, they've since changed the design from a coarse to a fine thread, so that didn't work.
With only and inch and a half of copper coming out of the block wall, I am afraid to screw with it any further.
Thanks for all of the replies and efforts to help.
And yes, I am having the plumber also do the hot side. I'm also going to insist that the replacement valves can easily be removed/replaced by me in the future. That should solve your problem. Good luck and hope you get a good plumber. |
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 bmetelsky
Premium Member
join:2005-10-16
Elyria, OH |
to John97
said by John97:Update: I'm finished with this. I've thrown in the towel and am calling a plumber tomorrow. Yeah, sometimes the best thing to do. It doesn't look like a job that would cost that much. |
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Hawk
Premium Member
join:2003-08-25 |
to John97
I think these come in 1/4 turn too |
I’m not going to make this a habit on the internet but this is just a quick estimate based on this area and our shop charges that may help as a cost base line. Of course prices may vary in your area. Description: Replace (2) washing machine bibs & hoses. •(2) 1/2 comp X 3/4 mht W/M hose bib(s) 17.09ea - $34.19
•(2) 3/4 X 3/4 X 60" Braided Stainless Steel Supply(s) 15.68ea – $31.36
•(2) 1/2 PC CU Escutcheon(s) 1.05ea - $2.10
•(1) Misc. $1.40
Material $69.05
Tax (8%) in Ca $5.52
Labor 1hr (No Travel) $88.00
Estimate $162.57Jacks suggestion of the W/M box in the wall would obviously be a cleaner installation but a little more expensive. TIP: If you're able to anticipate the techs arrival time, have the system drained and ready to go and the W/M out of the way so he's not standing around waiting on your dime. Good luck and I too hope you get an experianced tech. |
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John97Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium Member
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL
1 recommendation |
John97
Premium Member
2015-Mar-8 7:17 pm
Thanks. I'd love to have one of those nice recessed boxes in the wall as Jack illustrated, but there's only 1" of space between the drywall and the cinderblock wall behind it.
I'll definitely have the water shut off, lines drained, and the washer/dryer out of the way beforehand. |
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 pende_tim
Premium Member
join:2004-01-04
Selbyville, DE
1 recommendation |
to Jack in VA
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to pende_tim
Job security. BTW, if you were a plumber, and did 1 house a week for a builder, the money you saved scrimping on fittings, and labor would probably pay for a nice long weekend, or maybe even a trip to Disney World. Years ago I used a plumber who used American made ball valves. Separate circulators, instead of zone valves on boilers, with ball valves on each side of the circulator, etc, etc, etc. He still got sold down the road by contractors,when he got underbid on houses by as little as $25. The builders only cared about how little you could do the job for, as long as it met code. My late Daddy used to say that speculative construction was the Maximum out of the minimum. |
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John97Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium Member
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL |
John97
Premium Member
2015-Mar-9 11:01 am
I understand completely. This house was originally the sample/model for the builder who did many of the houses in my development, later it became the builder's personal home. So, I am sure this is how his plumbing contractor did them all. I've got many things in this house that were done above and beyond what was required, but that just isn't the case in this particular instance.
BTW, plumber is coming this afternoon. They're going to call me when he's on the way and I'll turn the water off and move the w/d out of the way before he gets here. |
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Be sure to post a pic of his completed repair/replacement |
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pende_tim
Premium Member
join:2004-01-04
Selbyville, DE
1 edit |
to Jack in VA
Random duplicate post  |
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John97Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium Member
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL
1 recommendation |
to Jack in VA
Hot supply | 
Cold supply |
said by Jack in VA:Be sure to post a pic of his completed repair/replacement It's done. He really had the job done in what seemed to be no time at all. He torched the old ones off, cleaned up the pipe and sweated the new ones on. I know, I know.... I said I was going to ask that he install something removable. I'm just not worried about it. The job cost me $107 total. I'm happy. I'll gladly pay it again years down the road if there's somehow an issue with one of the ball valves. The plumber told me this is one of their most frequent type of calls in this area. Apparently all of the houses around here were done the same way. It's standard procedure to just replace both valves and to only install ball valves as replacements. They get lots of calls to repair pipes because people see the exposed threads on the valves, throw a wrench on there and start cranking away. Note: Gotta love the electrical outlet for the washing machine directly beneath the hot water supply. It's not even a GFCI. I'll be addressing that issue promptly. |
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said by John97: Gotta love the electrical outlet for the washing machine directly beneath the hot water supply. You could move it if you wanted but it will be a lot easier to just throw an outdoor rain cover over it to protect from leaks. /tom |
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John97Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium Member
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL |
John97
Premium Member
2015-Mar-9 6:11 pm
I like the rain cover idea. Thanks! I'll still probably change it to GFCI. |
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nonymous (banned)
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ |
to John97
said by John97: I said I was going to ask that he install something removable. I'm just not worried about it. The job cost me $107 total. I'm happy. I'll gladly pay it again years down the road if there's somehow an issue with one of the ball valves. My thing is the valve would go bad the next day.  Seriously, the water is just bad in Phoenix on plumbing. I would have insisted and paid the difference. |
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Hawk
Premium Member
join:2003-08-25
1 edit |
to John97
John97  , I'm afraid we're gonna have to tear a corner off your "Man Card"  No compression bibs, No Escutcheons, No Braided Stainless Supplies? Soldering brass to copper? What am I missing guys? Edit: said by John97:I'll gladly pay it again years down the road Oh yeah, my kinda customer!  |
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John97Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium Member
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL
1 recommendation |
John97
Premium Member
2015-Mar-9 8:49 pm
said by nonymous:My thing is the valve would go bad the next day.
Seriously, the water is just bad in Phoenix on plumbing. I would have insisted and paid the difference. The original gate valve lasted 30 years... I think I'll be ok. Yeah, yeah... I already addressed the supply hoses in above post They are getting changed. I got the new ones in the package. We're in process of redoing the laundry room (tile floor, paint, and cabinets). Also have a new (to us) set of Samsung frontloaders that are going in as well. That's how I discovered the shutoff valve didn't work. I was going to get the machines out of there so we could start painting. Again, the original valve lasted 30 years. |
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 randavis74 Challenger 440 4bbl
join:2000-01-19
Blue Springs, MO |
I have had trouble with threaded fittings leaking far more often than failed solder joints. Even though it may take a little longer to accomplish, I feel more secure with a soldered joint.
I use pipe dope on the threads, teflon tape usually shreds on tightening. Then those fine pieces find places to lodge downstream.
Just my $0.02. |
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Hawk
Premium Member
join:2003-08-25 |
to John97
Glad it all work out for you ... |
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to Hawk
said by Hawk:John97, I'm afraid we're gonna have to tear a corner off your "Man Card" No compression bibs, No Escutcheons, No Braided Stainless Supplies? Soldering brass to copper? What am I missing guys? Nuttin'. Wow. Just wow. And after all the energy expended here. |
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jarhead222
Anon
2015-Mar-10 8:41 am
what does "sweated" mean when you guys say the pipes sweated off? |
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·Consolidated Com..
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said by jarhead222 :what does "sweated" mean when you guys say the pipes sweated off? The process of soldering copper plumbing fittings is called sweating. I have no idea how that term came to be used and my Googlefu failed me. /tom |
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No compression bibs, No Escutcheons, No Braided Stainless Supplies? Soldering brass to copper? 
