dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
10957
geokilla
join:2010-10-04
North York, ON

geokilla to xdrag

Member

to xdrag

Re: [Cable] 100/10 and 250/20 tier availability timeline

said by xdrag:

plenty of companies have grey tactics.

it's just whether the public knows about them and how much they can keep it "under wraps"

if you think anything else, it's ignorance

Anyways, I think there's growing frustration and dissatisfaction among TPIA/TSI customers. Rogers is pushing back hard and I can see a flood of customers moving back to Rogers if things don't improve soon.

As, I said, I was the first TSI DSL customers and supported them through these many years. However, TSI also had issues in the past (overselling capacity - network went to a crawl).

People should keep an open mind... Hopefully TSI is recognizing these concerns.

If you look at the posts on RFD, a lot of people have already left Teksavvy to go back to Rogers. And that's just a small number of ex-Teksavvy's customers that announced their change and switching the plan. I'm sure there's a large amount of customers going back. Plus with the bill credits and discounted pricing for the first 3 months, you're basically paying a bit more for a lot more.
wayner92
join:2006-01-17
Toronto, ON

wayner92 to xdrag

Member

to xdrag
said by xdrag:

Anyways, I think there's growing frustration and dissatisfaction among TPIA/TSI customers. Rogers is pushing back hard and I can see a flood of customers moving back to Rogers if things don't improve soon.

I wonder if some of this is because TSI's business model is changing now. I thought of them as providing a better service in terms of speed and data at a slightly lower price than the incumbents and they had better service.

But now for various reasons, perhaps unfair wholesale pricing, they can no long compete at the high end of the market - they haven't been able to offer a high end cable product for months now. The Cable 60 product with unlimited is now vastly inferior to Rogers Ignite 100 or Ignite 250 services.

So that means the only way to compete is with a lower priced product which means they will have to cut their internal costs - hence poorer customer service. And many of the folks who moved to TSI for unlimited data will go to Rogers for higher speeds, unlimited data, other "frills" that TSI can't offer like Shomi and GCL, not to mention fewer support hassles since there is no middleman to blame.

BACONATOR26
Premium Member
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON

BACONATOR26 to Triggahappy

Premium Member

to Triggahappy
There's a lot of things going on at TSI that are causing issues, one being wholesale pricing which is also starting to affect other TPIAs. But that alone is not the cause for support deterioration..
frustrated_
join:2015-01-28

frustrated_ to Triggahappy

Member

to Triggahappy
Yes, taking a hard look at the numbers, it's hard to justify staying with Teksavvy at this point. I think I'm going to cancel (created a thread, but it hasn't been approved).

I currently have 18/0.5 grandfathered @ $44.95/mo. If and when Teksavvy ever gets 100 or 250 service, that'll require the purchase of a new modem (included with Rogers). Actually, that modem purchase is required if I want to switch to anything. And given 60/10 unlimited is currently $10 more than Rogers, I have my doubts whether Teksavvy can be cost competitive, not even factoring the modem fee.

And free gamecenter live, and shomi? Not critical, but pretty nice icing on the cake

Poser
join:2002-07-28

Poser to Triggahappy

Member

to Triggahappy
I am buying my own house at the end of this month. If Teksavvy can get access to the new speeds by then, I will sign up with them. If they do not, I will be forced to go with Rogers.

I have to buy a new modem anyway, so Teksavvy can have my continued business if they can get access to the new speeds in 3-7 weeks.

BACONATOR26
Premium Member
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON

BACONATOR26

Premium Member

It won't be weeks, probably 3-6 months minimum. And they're still waiting on new modems anyways.
FatalX
join:2014-06-01

FatalX to Triggahappy

Member

to Triggahappy
It's unfortunately not an easy choice anymore at the higher tiers.. I was with teksavvy for many years, and all last year, waiting and waiting on the new modems, got myself grandfathered in on an old modem (8x4) at 150/10. With the issues they were having through Nov, Dec, I finally went over to Rogers again, with at 150/15 350gb plan, free modem and about the same price. Rogers gave me a $100 credit to cover the installation/fees and a bit of one month bill. I actually wrote the CRTC, because I do want to support the little(r) guys like Teksavvy, but under the current regime, they're not even close to competitive at any "high" speed tiers.

When these plans came out the other day, I called Rogers, even though I've only paid two months, and gotten a $100 credit, they were able to credit me the next 3 months $25 off, and upgrade me to 250/20 unlimited. I keep my current 32/8 modem, no change fees, no contract. I jumped ship from Rogers a long while back for good reasons... one of those reasons being that then Teksavvy was cheaper for equal speed with more bandwidth.. but not stay away for life good. At then end of the day, they've made all this pretty easy. The only thing they've done wrong so far, was that they tried to tell me these prices/promos were bundle only at first and sell me extra, but when they couldn't locate any of that in the fine print (it's not there, this *is* standalone), they did gave me the internet promo package anyways. Frankly the incumbents trying to sell me on ---- package is something I just live with every time I have to call them (1-2 times a year), with bell it's TV or internet when I call re: my cellphone.

Poser
join:2002-07-28

Poser to BACONATOR26

Member

to BACONATOR26
Well then, I guess I have my answer. Selling my soul shortly after I move into the new house...
morisato
join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON

morisato

Member

Ya i got activation waived. Install waived and a $100 dollar credit as well as 25 for 3 months
So its hard to say no, But i was a heavier ZTC user so perhaps i am Doing Tek a favour.
i_pk_pjers_i
join:2007-04-20
none

i_pk_pjers_i to Poser

Member

to Poser
Why not get Teksavvy DSL instead of Robbers Cable?

RLBL
join:2012-11-26
Gloucester, ON

RLBL

Member

said by i_pk_pjers_i:

Why not get Teksavvy DSL instead of Robbers Cable?

he said he wants "access to the new (higher) speeds".

TKK
@microsoft.com

TKK to morisato

Anon

to morisato
said by morisato:

Ya i got activation waived. Install waived and a $100 dollar credit as well as 25 for 3 months
So its hard to say no, But i was a heavier ZTC user so perhaps i am Doing Tek a favour.

How did you get the deal? Did you have any other service with rogers?
I called, and they said the only thing they could give me is 25 for 3 months. What did you tell them??
notfred
join:2012-09-15

notfred to Triggahappy

Member

to Triggahappy
I can't believe you guys even consider doing business with a bait'n'switch outfit like that rather than TSI who tell you what the price is up front. No need to know the magical words and spend half a day on the phone every couple of months.
morisato
join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON

morisato

Member

No i had no other service i called that mike guy thats listed on rfd TLL, he called me back supposedly last day for that deal but u know how it is that changes every other day, - And i consider it notfred because i am a Proactive consumer I don;t mind spending a hour or 2 on the phone if it saves me 40-50 a month.. every 6 months.
chipface
join:2011-07-13

chipface to notfred

Member

to notfred
said by notfred:

I can't believe you guys even consider doing business with a bait'n'switch outfit like that rather than TSI who tell you what the price is up front. No need to know the magical words and spend half a day on the phone every couple of months.

With them not being allowed to require 30 days notice to cancel anymore it gives them less of an incentive to pull the kinda crap they used to. I'm tempted to go for the offer as long as it's not a contract.

Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium Member
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON

Teddy Boom

Premium Member

The CRTC site finally has the tariff letters up:
»www.crtc.gc.ca/8740/eng/ ··· /r28.htm

They mention the whole principle of pricing at the nearest lower speed that Shaw got caught with. Maybe if a cost study is included, then new interim pricing can be approved?

moffa
join:2007-10-14
North York, ON

1 edit

moffa

Member

Wow $1400/100 Mbps connection. Torix charges $100 for a 1Gbps. Not sure how this pricing works.

Am I misreading this or something? Just the aggregate POI connection charge is $1400 a month for a 100 Mbps link?

jmck
formerly 'shaded'
join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON

jmck

Member

said by moffa:

Wow $1400/100 Mbps connection. Torix charges $100 for a 1Gbps. Not sure how this pricing works.

Am I misreading this or something? Just the aggregate POI connection charge is $1400 a month for a 100 Mbps link?

you're missing a lot. forget the fact that TorIX is an exchange and is simply charging for a port... but try to comprehend how much it costs a cable carrier to maintain access to every single home in it's territory (millions) even if they don't sign up for service, then the DOCSIS network and so on.

TLS2000
Premium Member
join:2004-02-24
Elmsdale, NS
Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Ubiquiti U6-LR
Ubiquiti UniFi UAP-nanoHD

TLS2000 to Triggahappy

Premium Member

to Triggahappy
Sadly, I've been unable to convince my girlfriend to switch to TekSavvy after we moved in together. Unfortunately, they don't have a competitive product anymore. It's not fair that they can't get immediate relief from Rogers' pricing tactics, but at the same time, as a consumer, I have to go with what suits my wallet best.

Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium Member
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON

Teddy Boom to moffa

Premium Member

to moffa
You are reading it correctly, and it is pretty outrageous. The costs jmck mentions are supposed to mostly be carried in the fixed portion of the bill. $23 for 100 down 10 up, for example. Of course splitting the costs between the fixed portion and the capacity is very difficult, and there is lots of room for interpretation.

The fixed prices used to be pretty reasonable, but in the last couple of years Rogers has been pushing the prices unreasonably high on that front too. With high prices on all aspects of the bill, cable internet prices look high...

jmck is totally correct that $100 per gigabit isn't even on the table. However, it is pretty likely that the $1400 number is at least double what it should be, possibly 4x.

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

1 edit

Davesnothere

Premium Member

said by Teddy Boom:

....However, it is pretty likely that the [Rogers] $1,400 number is at least double what it should be, possibly 4x.

 
Given that Bell dropped their pants on CBB price pretty early, and Cogeco has made several reductions, changing their originally highest Ontario CBB rate to almost the lowest now, it makes Rogers (who originally was lowest at $1,400) now the highest, as THEY have made no reductions themselves.

All 3 are still ridiculous and predatory, each at above $1,000.
btech805
join:2013-08-01
Canada

btech805 to Teddy Boom

Member

to Teddy Boom

Different parts of the annual and quarterly reports are fairly easy to comprehend. The keys to look at are general revenue, profits and investments. BCE publishes fairly regular shareholder materials which gives fairly good insight into coming products and investments into technology.

The truth is we too are getting hammered by Rogers speed tiers, where we simply cant compete over copper. Even with pair bonding the most we'd be able to offer is in the 100-150 mbps range, and once a person gets hooked onto a speed, going down is never an option. 1 & 2 meg used to seem real quick to us, a person more than likely wont drop from a 250 tier to 100. Rogers pricing isn't an attack on the TPIA, it's an attack on Bell to win back the 10's of thousands of subscribers they've lost since Fibe rolled out.

BACONATOR26
Premium Member
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON

BACONATOR26

Premium Member

Even then as I recall Rogers didn't lose as much cable subscribers to Bell as it has been made to believe. Part of it was also to wholesale at one point.
Triggahappy
join:2011-08-15
Mississauga, ON

Triggahappy to btech805

Member

to btech805
If this really is just an attempt to winback bell customers, and not a way to shut down some TPIA's shouldn't someone from TSI be in contact with Rogers and be able to at least provide a sprinkle of hope / timelines / current roadblocks to providing a timeline?

BACONATOR26
Premium Member
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON

BACONATOR26

Premium Member

Rogers doesn't communicate such information to TPIAs. They file tariffs with the CRTC and then all parties deal with the CRTC with their regulatory lawyers to negotiate the rates. Rogers does not much care about wholesale accounts, they make little money and compared to their own retail customer base, not enough to compete that much for the wholesale business when they can just change their retail rates.

However, a portion of the recent changes I would say are to compete with Bell. All they have to do is a few upgrades and then are able to offer much higher speeds. Pretty soon Bell will have no leverage and will have to deploy FTTH or risk little market share in the regions where they compete with Rogers.

Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium Member
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON

Teddy Boom to btech805

Premium Member

to btech805
said by btech805:

The truth is we too are getting hammered by Rogers speed tiers, where we simply cant compete over copper. Even with pair bonding the most we'd be able to offer is in the 100-150 mbps range, and once a person gets hooked onto a speed, going down is never an option. 1 & 2 meg used to seem real quick to us, a person more than likely wont drop from a 250 tier to 100.

I think the push for faster speeds is more about marketing than people getting hooked. I think the reason nobody switches down is simply that people don't like to change. If the service works, they stick with it. You can see that proved in the pricing strategy of all the incumbents and some of the indies too.

If Bell wanted to attract customers, they could offer something with serious value, like 25/10, at $40/month. They'd sell tons of it. Incumbents don't see that level of customer as valuable though.

That's the biggest motivation for me, I think. $40/month isn't enough? It should be plenty. It should be easy enough to have a lite offering at $25 too.

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt

Premium Member

We're not customers. We're units, measured in ARPU's.

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

Davesnothere to Teddy Boom

Premium Member

to Teddy Boom
said by Teddy Boom:

I think the push for faster speeds is more about marketing than people getting hooked.....

 
MY feeling on the matter is that folks often choose the faster speeds more to get a larger usage cap, as traditionally, those two factors have been joined at the hip.

They don't want to go back down in speed if it means a lower cap, as it could cost them more than staying where they are, in possible overage charges.

As always, money talks.
vincom
join:2009-03-06
Bolton, ON

vincom

Member

years ago i went from 10mb dl w/rogers to 6mb dsl unlimited tpia.
why because rogers started charging for overages where as b4 they didnt.
doesnt sound much of a downgrade from 10 to 6 but it was almost 1/2

v6movement
@pppoe.ca

v6movement

Anon

said by vincom:

years ago i went from 10mb dl w/rogers to 6mb dsl unlimited tpia.
why because rogers started charging for overages where as b4 they didnt.
doesnt sound much of a downgrade from 10 to 6 but it was almost 1/2

The cable connections are almost always over-provisioned and that 6Mb connection is closer to 5. So yes it is half.