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dbamber
join:2003-02-07
Bandon, OR

dbamber to umwut

Member

to umwut

Re: Dodge RAM 1500 Diesel A Big Let Down In Canada

Opinions are like you know what! Our GLK250 is just about a year old. We are averaging over 30 MPG since new. The diesel version of the GLK is $500 less than the comparable gas version with all wheel drive. After driving just over 9000 miles it took less than 4 gallons of adblue for a cost of less than $18. Here on the Oregon coast diesel has been anywhere from a few cents less or more than more than regular unleaded. It's due for it first service and the cost at a local shop will be under $125. So other persons views may be different than your observations!

Cho Baka
MVM
join:2000-11-23
there

1 recommendation

Cho Baka

MVM

The point isn't your brand new car. The point is the complexity and maintenance required - not scheduled maintenance, but repairs required because things start going wrong.

Lets talk in 10 years, if the car is still on the road.

I feel for you though, so I will slaughter a goat as a sacrifice to the gods in hopes that they prevent your EGR and catalysts from clogging up.
dbamber
join:2003-02-07
Bandon, OR

dbamber

Member

I really can't understand the vitriol here.Over 40 years ago they came out with breakerless ignition systems, and an older mechanic mused to me one day at the dealership we worked at that we never saw a car getting towed in due to the points failing. Try to find an example of an ignition system with points, and a condenser today. It was forty years ago that catalytic converters were introduced in the 1975 models, and the use of unleaded gas. We have managed to be able to survive all of these technological advances to get to where we are at today. Like it or not we aren't going back to our vacumn tube radios, or television sets. The same goes for our cars, computers, home appliances etc.
fixrman
From a broken heart to a hole in the sky
Premium Member
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA
·Verizon FiOS

fixrman

Premium Member

I LOVE vacuum tubes. They sound rich and warm and handle overloads like nobody's business. Give me a tube amp any day. I don't mind having to wait 8 seconds for it to "warm up".

You never saw a vehicle towed in for points? I have, and I am not that old. Point contacts welded together, rubbing block gone...
telco_mtl
join:2012-01-06

telco_mtl

Member

said by fixrman:

You never saw a vehicle towed in for points? I have, and I am not that old. Point contacts welded together, rubbing block gone...

Agreed, i may be an old fashioned 37 year old, but when it comes to cars i have to admit as a child my fathers RWD detroit iron that he drove (chevy nova, pontiac phoenix and his last carbeurated car a 1983 j2000 (not so much detroit iron)) gave us more no starts than any of the electronic managed engines. Hell even my 97 grand prix that spends winter in a snow bank ALWAYS fires right up in the spring when i put a fresh battery in. In my 20 years of driving and owning cars the only times ive been left high and dry without warning are alternator failures and fuel pump failures. Most of the other problems i have had either tell me with a squeak or an idiot light. Yes there are more things to go wrong on a modern car, but give me individual coils over a distributor any day, same goes with multi point injection over a carb.
fixrman
From a broken heart to a hole in the sky
Premium Member
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

fixrman

Premium Member

Out of all of the cars "dad" had, that '83 was probably the most problematic, especially where the carburettor was concerned.

If the '97 Grand Prix gives you problems (probably was fixed for this long ago) in the stalling arena, the weak point in that vehicle was the ECM. Rear caliper slides seized, but that was from lack of use for the most part. Also, the front and rear edges of the intake valleys were sealed with an inferior RTV compound, else the amount was insufficient so it would break down causing an oil leak; the distributor drive plug (there was still a distributor shaft, even though the ignition was distributor-less) o-ring would shrink and leak. The former could actually be fixed very well with just a vacuum pump and a tube of good RTV, believe it or not. The factory wouldn't pay for that procedure though, so we had to do the entire gasket set. If it was my car, I'd have just done it the "sucky" way.

Cho Baka
MVM
join:2000-11-23
there

Cho Baka to dbamber

MVM

to dbamber
For me, it isn't so much a fear of tech in general, as it is an understanding of how the systems on a new diesel work, and why they are there.

2 simplified examples of concerns I have:
Diesels produce soot. Much of the exhaust aftertreatment on diesels is to address soot. A DPF captures soot by forcing the exhaust to flow through the walls of the catalyst/substrate. When it gets full, fuel is injected into the exhaust to burn off the soot that is stored in the walls of the catalyst/substrate. While I have no doubts that this can work in the short term, I am concerned in the longer term. I live in the salt belt and know well that exhaust components do not live forever.

In addition, diesels are also equipped with EGR. This requires the addition of coolers in the EGR circuit. Wait... Diesels produce soot. This soot can plug the EGR coolers. In addition, because of the EGR, you now have sooty gasses being introduced into the intake. Again, this is more of a long term thing. Stripping an engine to decarbonize it isn't cheap - hopefully none of the bolts on that fancy exhaust hardware are seized....

tryagain
@optonline.net

tryagain to dbamber

Anon

to dbamber
A year old, meaning you have almost no experience with it... I would hope in a year the thing still ran down the road with out major issues.

There is a difference between opinions and fact... you likely have no idea how your exhaust system works or what that "adblue" is for, the SCR system, SCR, o ya, selective catalyst reduction system, the thing before the DPF, DPF? Diesel particulate filter. Google DPF cleaning you will see an oven, also a blow gun machine to clean them. Check out the price of new exhaust system parts, check out how your regen works. On that car I do not know how it works, I can tell you on a ford powerjoke it dumps raw fuel into 7 and 8 on the exhaust stroke, it overheats 7 and 8, and the turbo. As I mentioned at least some tractor trailers (all I would hope) have a doser injector prevents overheating of the turbo... once the filter gets really plugged and it keeps going into regen it really kills 7 8 and the turbo...

The reason the new fords have 2 cooling systems is due to the egr cooler (exhaust gas re-circulation, an emissions thing) cracking and draining out all the coolant resulting in the motor blowing due to overheating from lack of coolant. The fix for this was to put another cooling system in for that... that's a fact, an emissions related system could destroy your 10k's of motor... and it was not a once in a blue moon issue, as like I said, ford put a whole nother cooling system on the truck to avoid that issue.

Again, as I said, the 6.0 powerjoke motor in a bus, worked fine, when they put it in a pickup and hooked up the emissions, it was a huge disaster. That is a fact, not an opinion.

The fact is, the emissions killed the diesel motors... hell the reason there are so FEW diesels here are emissions, they can't make it... or they can't make it worth it...

Again, 1 year, 9000miles... when you get to 10 years 150k let me know how well that system is working for you.

And again to bring this back to work trucks, they can see 100k's miles a year, or 1000's of hours of idle time... idle kills the exhaust system so does stop and go, and under 40mph...

Diesel here 3.39 reg gas 2.54.

Also adblue is not what I was talking about when I talked about diesel FUEL additive, that is exhaust system additive... fuel additive is to bring back the lost lubricity... diesel is just a lite oil... the act of removing the sulfur also stripped alot of the lubrication of the fuel, before getting to the pump, lube SHOULD be added back in... but, most fuel here does not even meet the bosch lubricity numbers... and, like I really trust them to get the lube back into the fuel. I take care of that myself... of course please don't put 2 stroke or anything for that matter that does not say it is okay for use in 2007 and up vehicles your DPF will die. Ya sure new motors might be fine with out additive, I aint trying that on my old stuff however...

Also lol, 9k miles $18... now, put that into a fleet of trucks... all of a sudden your operation costs have gone up... again not that is even what I am talking about...

But please anyone who can find me any article anywhere that gives praise to the diesel exhaust system I'd love to see... not one that says how it's saving the environment but how its good for the engine and end user, or at least how it has no effect.

You will not find any, all you will find is how it is causing more down time, costing more money, and doing more damage to the engine.

But whatever, everyone else can keep disputing what I say, I'm done trying to counter it. Google it... read the articles, don't take my word for it...
The emissions systems on a diesel, raise initial cost, operation costs, maintenance costs, and reduce engine life.

At least SOMEONE in this thread understands what I am talking about in relation to the disaster the emissions is causing...

I love how we are on coils, points, none of this has anything to do with emissions...

Backing soot up into the turbo charger and motor is not good. Fact again.

Lurch77
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
Green Bay, WI

3 recommendations

Lurch77

Premium Member

said by tryagain :

But whatever, everyone else can keep disputing what I say, I'm done trying to counter it.

I'll miss you, anonymous forum member.
rody_44
Premium Member
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA

2 edits

rody_44 to tryagain

Premium Member

to tryagain
Yet all these people u know still continue to buy them. Want to know why that is? I will grant you the 04 6.0 powerstroke kind of sucked with reliability. Subsequent years were not near as bad as you are making out them to be. Like i said you only need to look at your local construction and utility companies to see its still the engine to get when your planning to use a truck for what a truck was built for.
rfnut
Premium Member
join:2002-04-27
Fisher, IL

rfnut to Xstar_Lumini

Premium Member

to Xstar_Lumini
I am glad the tone changed. I was beginning to expect 19579823 See Profile was influencing the thought process.

tryagain
@optonline.net

tryagain to rody_44

Anon

to rody_44
Please don't put words in my mouth, I never said anyone I know will buy one, infact, no one I know will buy anything with a DPF. One guy did, 07 or 08 peterbilt, used of course. By the time he got it back here he was pretty much crying as it had already been in for service 2 times JUST ON THE TRIP HOME, it would not regen. Ended up doing a delete on it. Infact, I know people who have gone to gas for there flatbed tow trucks, and they will *never* go back to diesel. I think he has 3 trucks, the newest one is a gas.

At least dispute what I say with something more than, look at what so and so bought.
rody_44
Premium Member
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA

rody_44

Premium Member

So you know 1 person that has three trucks. Not a very big test pot. Like i said you only need to look at your local utility and construction companies to see diesels still rule. As far as the big rigs, yea i know truckers are not very happy about the new emissions but its part of doing business now. The delete while illegal is the way most are going anyway. Cheaper to pay the fine if caught than repairing but again we arent talking about big rigs. Its not like a gas engine could begin to do the work of big rigs.

bigwutnoa
@optonline.net

bigwutnoa

Anon

Again, please do not assume I know nothing and have a sample size of about 0 just because I gave *one* example? I know a ton of people, and you just proved my point, it is easier to do the illegal thing (delete emissions) and pay the fine than deal with the system. And those tractor trailers have a better system (they have there own injector for the exhaust) than the pickups...

Who I know, oh golly here is a short list just quickly

Towing company 1, 2 trucks, no emissions
Towing company 2, 3 trucks 2 diesel (not sure if emissions or not I want to say not) newest is gas
TC3, 2 trucks, 1 gas 1 non emission diesel
TC4, I think 3 trucks, all non emission diesel
TC5, new trucks, they get replaced about once every 3 years. Also pays off the local cops so... really as far as the average company comparison goes... meh also as I said, sure in 3 years... the thing should still be running... should...
TC6, diesel all non emission
TC7, new trucks (emissions), has said *don't* buy the new trucks repair the old ones new ones are junk

Landscaper 1, 1 emission tractor trailer truck, "no problems" rest non emissions.
Landscaper 2, gas fleet
LS3, non emissions diesels
LS3, 1 emissions tractor trailer truck, nothing but issues, removed DPF rest non emissions.
LS4, emissions trucks + gas pick up, the illegal Mexicans drive them around in limp mode hitting a whole 35mph half the time.
LS5, non emissions diesel.

Local utility, never seen a diesel truck new enough to have emissions, everything small is gas and TBH most of the trucks I seen even bucket have been gas.

Construction, with out doing a full over check, most everything seems to be non emissions or gas, I believe one of the larger guys went emissions as it was going to be required to bid state jobs, that fell though (the requirement) and he is pissed off as the emissions vehicles don't work.

2 local gravel banks, all run old non emissions stuff...

Large $$$$$$$$$ garbage trucking company, always has at least one of the new emissions trucks down due to, emissions related issues.

Now note everyone who does not have an emissions diesel has said they are going to do everything they can to NOT get one or just go to gas as the reason to have a diesel (fuel costs) is gone (more $$ fuel lower mpg)

Again, never gave you my "full" test pot. Not to mention as well, just look around online... lol.

Oh and one other guy has like 8 vans i think, overloaded to death... had 2 diesels was told, sell the 6.0 asap, about 1.5 year later it was sold off as parts, low oil pressure, all injectors shot... 230k? Only diesel I think that is left is a 7.3, note these were all bought used...

Just fyi I do have an account here, and it's age is on par with alot of others in this thread... idk if that makes you feel like maybe I have a clue as to what I am talking about but again, please don't put words in my mouth or assume things.

At least Cho Baka See Profile has an idea of whats going on.

Lurch77
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
Green Bay, WI

2 recommendations

Lurch77

Premium Member

I thought you were done with this. We're not listen, anyway.
fixrman
From a broken heart to a hole in the sky
Premium Member
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA
·Verizon FiOS

fixrman

Premium Member

If Feds call you and say bad on me it may prove what I said are truth, they are afraid of it.

»forum.opencarry.org/foru ··· et-troll
moes
Premium Member
join:2009-11-15
Cedar City, UT

moes to umwut

Premium Member

to umwut
that's why we buy mostly pre 07 models.

sadsadsad
@optonline.net

sadsadsad to Lurch77

Anon

to Lurch77
said by Lurch77:

I thought you were done with this. We're not listen, anyway.

I was, however I will correct someone "putting words in my mouth"... telling me everyone I know still buys em, I only have a sample size of one company 3 trucks. Etc.

Sad how you people would rather bash someone who chooses to post anon however, gives tons of info to support his stance vs those who say "I had it for a year" "look what so and so buys" etc...

Lurch77
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
Green Bay, WI

1 edit

Lurch77

Premium Member

Hey, he/she/they are the ones that said we weren't listening, so they were done arguing the point. Only to come back and enlighten up further. And how is a wordy post from an anonymous member, with no citation, anymore reliable or trustworthy that anything else listed here? It's all hearsay and speculation without citation.

Besides, they just keep referencing the 6.0 Ford engine, which everyone already knows was a turd.
buckweet1980
join:2011-12-31
Saint Petersburg, FL

buckweet1980

Member

said by Lurch77:

Besides, they just keep referencing the 6.0 Ford engine, which everyone already knows was a turd.

I had an 05 F250 with that engine years ago.. I had to do quite a few things to it, but I loved that truck. I had a tune (not a tricker) on it to remap the engine and transmission programming. Talk about insane amounts of power, I can't imagine what could be done on the new engines.

In my few years of owing that, I had to delete the EGR because the cooler blew out. I replaced the alternator, replaced injectors that had stiction (started happening after I ran it dry of fuel with a hot tune, doh!!), replaced the head gaskets and put ARP studs on the engine. Replaced the oil cooler and a few other things that I can't remember. Some required, some just preventative because they were known issues. Since I had the truck torn apart to fix the EGR issue I just did all of the fixins at once.

As pointed out already the problems with the engine were somewhat because of the emissions, but also because of the design/manufacturing process. The stock head bolts aren't strong enough and would stretch causing the heads to warp. They also had problems where sand didn't get cleaned out properly during the casting and thus showed up in the cooling system afterwards. I never had a problem with the turbo luckily.

I bought a piece of land and needed to tow a decent size trailer and utility tractor to take care of the property. I originally bought a used 2004 Dodge Ram 2500 with the 5.7 litre hemi. That thing struggled towing the trailer, it took forever to get up to highway speeds. I then bought the F250 with 125K miles on it. Towing between the two was night and day difference between the two, it sold me on diesels. Now that we're starting to see gas engines with forced induction it changes the picture a bit. I saw some youtube videos comparing the v6 ecoboost f150 to the new dodge ecodiesel and it destroyed it in towing times.

F100
join:2013-01-15
Durham, NC
Alcatel-Lucent G-010G-A
(Software) pfSense
Pace 5268AC

F100 to Xstar_Lumini

Member

to Xstar_Lumini
Just look at my Avitar. It's 49 years old and I'm about to go get in it to leave from work. Think I'll even do a burnout just for fun on the way home. Just for your Xstar_Lumini.

There is a reason you don't see as many old Dodge truck as you do Fords and Chevy's. They didn't make as good of truck then and they still don't now. I'm not knocking on Dodge, just going on what I see at Auto shows and still on the road after a number of years. The good stuff lasts and gets restored.

None of the stuff is made as good as my 66 F100 and cars/trucks of that era were. That's why the market to restore is huge. I added an MSD distributor to get rid of points ignition and its runs as good as new trucks. If I fuel injected it and changed the gearing, it would get as good as mileage as current trucks.

The base entry level truck now is meant to replace the small pickup market that died; think Ranger, S-10. That's why they don't work as well or carry the load a 1/2 ton truck used to carry. People use them as cars now with no load.

Throw your sandbags in my truck and we'll go to town with them.

Lurch77
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
Green Bay, WI

Lurch77

Premium Member

But we're talking diesel engines here, and Dodge rules them all with Cummins' cooperation.
dbamber
join:2003-02-07
Bandon, OR

dbamber

Member

Not trying to cause dissension here, but the Ram 1500 diesel is a joint venture between Fiat, and GM. GM apparently bowed out when they entered bankruptcy in 2008. I believe.

Lurch77
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
Green Bay, WI

Lurch77

Premium Member

True, that is what this thread started with. I forgot, and my mind automatically goes to the heavy duty trucks when we talk diesel.