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thestealth
Premium Member
join:2009-11-10
Saint-Hubert, QC

thestealth

Premium Member

[Internet] FTTH Maximum Drop Length?

I have a place out in the country and have noticed that Bell is installing FTTH hardware along my road. I will finally have some access to some high speed solutions soon (I can finally rid myself from Xplornet satellite). My property is set back a fair ways from the road and I was wondering what is the maximum drop length for the FTTH service.

Thanks
abcxyz123
join:2012-01-17
k2k0h2

abcxyz123

Member

From what I read it is about 10 km.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning to thestealth

Member

to thestealth
said by thestealth:

I have a place out in the country and have noticed that Bell is installing FTTH hardware along my road. I will finally have some access to some high speed solutions soon (I can finally rid myself from Xplornet satellite). My property is set back a fair ways from the road and I was wondering what is the maximum drop length for the FTTH service.

Unlike cable, drop length doesn't affect FTTH as much. Even if your drop is 1km from the road, you're only adding about .5 db of loss. You may run in to sag and clearance issues, but that can be handled with additional clearance poles.

hlo207
join:2012-11-16
North York, ON

hlo207 to thestealth

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Are you sure those fibre optics installations are meant for FTTH? Do they have the Conning terminals on the line? Picture will help.
btech805
join:2013-08-01
Canada

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Loss over fibre is extremely limited up to about 10km. So theoretically, you'll be fine. Now the question is whether you will pay.

Bell's basic installation includes drops up to 60m from the roadway or easement. All the drops are pre-made and ended (as are the fiber strands and terminals), and if i recall correctly, the longest drop a residential tech will carry is 100 or 150 m. However drops over 60 m for either FTTH or copper are subject to construction costs borne by the homeowner. This will include an engineering assessment to inspect the poles on the property to ensure they are still safe to be climbed, and strong enough to support the new weight. Poles that need to be replaced can go up to $1000/each. Generally you will need 1 pole every 100-150 m. Aerial drops traversing more than 2 Poles are generally sent to a special crew who will install an aircraft cable strand supported line.

The buried route is generally cheaper if you need poles replaced, however I don't know the exact price. I believe FTTH requires conduit, so the tech can lay a temp line and the local contractor will come trench in conduit and pull a fiber strand.
telco_mtl
join:2012-01-06

telco_mtl

Member

said by btech805:

Bell's basic installation includes drops up to 60m from the roadway or easement. All the drops are pre-made and ended (as are the fiber strands and terminals), and if i recall correctly, the longest drop a residential tech will carry is 100 or 150 m

when i got fibe last may the the fibre optic cable was on a spool and he terminated it in front of me, no pre made ends
btech805
join:2013-08-01
Canada

btech805

Member

Might be different in Quebec...
aereolis
join:2003-06-12
Brampton, ON

aereolis to telco_mtl

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said by telco_mtl:

said by btech805:

Bell's basic installation includes drops up to 60m from the roadway or easement. All the drops are pre-made and ended (as are the fiber strands and terminals), and if i recall correctly, the longest drop a residential tech will carry is 100 or 150 m

when i got fibe last may the the fibre optic cable was on a spool and he terminated it in front of me, no pre made ends

btech805 was talking about the 99% of customers, not the 1% that needs > 150 meters. For those who'd like to know ROGERS max ftth drop length is 3km. For the 99% the drops come pre-terminated on one end (with weatherproof connector) by the manufacturer at preset lengths for example 30M, 60M, 90M etc and they just cut off the excess at the side of the house... or bring it straight inside to the equipment.... i havent looked at one of their res fiber installs yet.

JC_
Premium Member
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON

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said by thestealth:

I have a place out in the country and have noticed that Bell is installing FTTH hardware along my road.

Can you get some pictures of the equipment that is being installed?
said by thestealth:

My property is set back a fair ways from the road and I was wondering what is the maximum drop length for the FTTH service.

As others have said there are drops up 150m, however I know that there is an area in Ottawa where the fibre drops are up to 300m longs, however this is due to the way the area was engineered.
btech805
join:2013-08-01
Canada

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said by aereolis:

said by telco_mtl:

said by btech805:

Bell's basic installation includes drops up to 60m from the roadway or easement. All the drops are pre-made and ended (as are the fiber strands and terminals), and if i recall correctly, the longest drop a residential tech will carry is 100 or 150 m

when i got fibe last may the the fibre optic cable was on a spool and he terminated it in front of me, no pre made ends

btech805 was talking about the 99% of customers, not the 1% that needs > 150 meters. For those who'd like to know ROGERS max ftth drop length is 3km. For the 99% the drops come pre-terminated on one end (with weatherproof connector) by the manufacturer at preset lengths for example 30M, 60M, 90M etc and they just cut off the excess at the side of the house... or bring it straight inside to the equipment.... i havent looked at one of their res fiber installs yet.

This.

Also I've been informed I was mistaken, only drops greater than 165 m are subject to construction charges.

JC_
Premium Member
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON

JC_ to telco_mtl

Premium Member

to telco_mtl
said by telco_mtl:

said by btech805:

Bell's basic installation includes drops up to 60m from the roadway or easement. All the drops are pre-made and ended (as are the fiber strands and terminals), and if i recall correctly, the longest drop a residential tech will carry is 100 or 150 m

when i got fibe last may the the fibre optic cable was on a spool and he terminated it in front of me, no pre made ends

What type of infrastructure is in the area, aerial or buried? I know that a lot of the fibre guys carry a spool of fibre for use indoors or for going through conduit.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

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said by btech805:

Might be different in Quebec...

They're starting to use single end terminated cables here too. One end has the OptiTap connector factory installed, and the other is just a cut end. That way they don't have to spool the slack anywhere.
btech805
join:2013-08-01
Canada

btech805

Member

Yes that's what we do here too, and what i was referring to as pre-made
telco_mtl
join:2012-01-06

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to aereolis
said by aereolis:

said by telco_mtl:

said by btech805:

Bell's basic installation includes drops up to 60m from the roadway or easement. All the drops are pre-made and ended (as are the fiber strands and terminals), and if i recall correctly, the longest drop a residential tech will carry is 100 or 150 m

when i got fibe last may the the fibre optic cable was on a spool and he terminated it in front of me, no pre made ends

btech805 was talking about the 99% of customers, not the 1% that needs > 150 meters. For those who'd like to know ROGERS max ftth drop length is 3km. For the 99% the drops come pre-terminated on one end (with weatherproof connector) by the manufacturer at preset lengths for example 30M, 60M, 90M etc and they just cut off the excess at the side of the house... or bring it straight inside to the equipment.... i havent looked at one of their res fiber installs yet.

the pole was in my yard, he terminated the pole end in his truck, it was bulk cable that he used, drop is at most 40 feet
demonte21
join:2009-02-20
Mirabel, QC

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Longest drop lenght we have here is 300m, and we never charge customer for that kind of drop....We have also done 450m for some customer.. and there was no additional fee.
btech805
join:2013-08-01
Canada

btech805

Member

Again, you might have different rules in Quebec, you do for everything else so it wouldn't surprise me if this was different too LOL.

In Ontario, over 160m there are additional costs borne by the customer.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

said by btech805:

In Ontario, over 160m there are additional costs borne by the customer.

There's parts of Fort Erie similar to what JCohen described in Ottawa where length on the wire to the tap combined with the drop length to the customer would be over 160m. I find it highly unlikely Bell would ever charge a customer additional fees when their own network was engineered that way, so I don't think the 160m is a hard set rule for Ontario either.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning

Member

said by Gone:

find it highly unlikely Bell would ever charge a customer additional fees when their own network was engineered that way, so I don't think the 160m is a hard set rule for Ontario either.

I wonder if the decision is based not on the length of the drop, but the distance from the property line to the house. If someone is on a rural wooded lot and lives 500m from the road, Bell may not want to foot the entire bill.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

That would make a lot more sense.
btech805
join:2013-08-01
Canada

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Yes, that is exactly the situation I'm describing. It isn't the home owner's fault if the terminal happens to be 2 or 3 poles over from their property. What i should have been clear of is recessed properties (ie 160m from the roadway), as that sounds like what the OP was describing about their property.

However though, build out costs would be levied if for example, one lived on a cul de sac, and the main road has an FTTH terminal and the homeowner on the cul de sac wants FTTH, (as happened with my old house) because technically that cul de sac address doesn't qualify for FTTH service.

Fyi: i didn't get FTTH at my old house, i kept 5/1 DSL.
jumpingryan
join:2008-07-27
Pembroke, ON

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One option if things get too expensive in terms of install distance (and what/if Bell wants to charge) is to install an outbuilding with power closer to the road (perhaps a decent sized storage shed for tractor storage or other uses).

In short, bring the demark closer to the road, and from the demark, you are running your wiring privately to your house and other outbuildings.

You would have to balance out the costs and go from there... I am not saying it will be cheaper... but it might be of better value to your household and/or property.....

The detached building would need power, but could be anything from a shed, to an enclosed school bus waiting area, to whatever.

Then you can go privately the rest of the way to the house with whatever infastructure you want (possibly coax, copper CAT 6, or direct burial fibre, or even private aerial/above ground setups.

What this could do is save you the upcharge that Bell may put onto the work.... in some cases they are cheap, but in other cases, they are either lazy, or cost a fortune.

Good luck, and let us know how things work out!
abcxyz123
join:2012-01-17
k2k0h2

abcxyz123 to thestealth

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Not quite the same as FTTH but an interesting article on the new max lengths of undersea cables without a repeater. The OP might be able to move his house back from the road a bit more with some new equipment. »www.theregister.co.uk/20 ··· ndwidth/

Martin
Premium Member
join:2005-05-05
Blainville, QC

Martin to thestealth

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to thestealth
600m is the max for home by FTTH and it's free! No additional fees n is charged to the customer. The maximum length is dictated by the service wire available and not by standard because the fiber can be up to 30km without problem.

JC_
Premium Member
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON

JC_ to Gone

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said by Gone:

said by btech805:

In Ontario, over 160m there are additional costs borne by the customer.

There's parts of Fort Erie similar to what JCohen described in Ottawa where length on the wire to the tap combined with the drop length to the customer would be over 160m. I find it highly unlikely Bell would ever charge a customer additional fees when their own network was engineered that way, so I don't think the 160m is a hard set rule for Ontario either.

Currently in Ontario if we have any drops that are over 165m we are supposed to send them into a department so that construction will be applied, however the customer will contacted first before any additional charges are added to the order.

This is most likely different in regards to fibre as with fibre the plant was engineered that way for whatever reason instead of just continuing down the road.
JC_

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said by HeadSpinning:

said by Gone:

find it highly unlikely Bell would ever charge a customer additional fees when their own network was engineered that way, so I don't think the 160m is a hard set rule for Ontario either.

I wonder if the decision is based not on the length of the drop, but the distance from the property line to the house. If someone is on a rural wooded lot and lives 500m from the road, Bell may not want to foot the entire bill.

For copper the distance is from the terminal to the demarcation point. We will always try to use the closest terminal to the house however if someone is at the end of the line than there is nothing that can be done in regards to distance.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

My demarc is actually over 100m away from the copper terminal because all of the phone lines run up the side streets and then dead-end. They then run drops from the terminal on the side street to the front of all the houses on this street. I suspect that when they deploy fibre it will be similar.

But since this is still less than 165m, we're good.

JC_
Premium Member
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON

JC_

Premium Member

said by Gone:

My demarc is actually over 100m away from the copper terminal because all of the phone lines run up the side streets and then dead-end. They then run drops from the terminal on the side street to the front of all the houses on this street. I suspect that when they deploy fibre it will be similar.

But since this is still less than 165m, we're good.

Are there existing poles in front or behind your house for hydro? If so it's possible that they'll run it on there instead.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

There's poles for hydro and cable out front. The copper for Bell is buried for the houses across the street.

hlo207
join:2012-11-16
North York, ON

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I suspect if Bell wants to make a brown field subdivision with deep lots FTTH capable, then they will have to run longer than normal fibre optics to the house from where the Conning connectors are. Nobody will want to pay thousands for extra poles regardless of how well off the neighborhood is. Either that or Bell will loose to the cable company.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning

Member

said by hlo207:

Either that or Bell will loose to the cable company.

Cable has huge challenges with deep lots. There are far more restrictions on drop length in the Cable world than there are in the Fibre world.