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gatorcrunch
join:2015-03-13
United State

1 recommendation

gatorcrunch

Member

I have Frontier Metro Ethernet Service to a rural residence - AMA!

I found information to be extremely limited when contemplating a better solution in this last year.

I established a Metro Ethernet connection with frontier in rural northern Minnesota.

I work from the home (Mostly sell over Amazon).

I wished to open this thread (subject, may be the appropriate name here) should anyone else have similar questions as I did when looking to establish such a line, in particular with Frontier.
Melakion
join:2009-06-25
Marysville, WA

1 recommendation

Melakion

Member

What speed, and how much does it cost?
What other speeds were offered, and at what price points?
Did you have to pay installation, or is it rolled into a contract term?
Metered or unmetered?
What kind of Client Premise Equipment was required, and do you have to rent that too or is it included?

I'm imagining that something like 10/10mbps service is around $500-1000 per month, and that it gets much more expensive from there.
gatorcrunch
join:2015-03-13
United State

1 recommendation

gatorcrunch

Member

I was not the most simple of negotiators, and it went through multiple failures I saw incoming.

I have a 15 meg (up/down) line I got from them on a 5 year contract for $499.00/month

Dedicated line, no metering.

There was no additional charges. I will reply later with exacts of equipment.

So, I beat your estimations, which is good. I'm a difficult person to work with.

SuperSpy
join:2012-06-15
Coldwater, MI

1 recommendation

SuperSpy to gatorcrunch

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to gatorcrunch
That's an astounding amount of money for only 15/15 so I have to ask: why?
DeLiver3
Premium Member
join:2004-09-01
Cincinnatus, NY
Actiontec F2250
(Software) pfSense

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DeLiver3 to gatorcrunch

Premium Member

to gatorcrunch
Thanks for sharing that info, I've pondered a circuit myself. Nice to see what they offered and like Melakion, I'd also like to see how it is delivered and the distances involved.

Do let us know if there is any sticker-shock with the first bill.

Frontiertech
@frontier.com

1 recommendation

Frontiertech

Anon

Metro is a great service if feed by copper you can have 40meg (8 pairs) up and down if fiber feed the sky is the limit. we been selling a lot of it in WV to bussiness
54761437 (banned)
join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC

1 recommendation

54761437 (banned)

Member

So is business DSL (up to 40/10) delivered over VDSL2, or is that Metro-E?
gatorcrunch
join:2015-03-13
United State

1 recommendation

gatorcrunch to SuperSpy

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to SuperSpy
I think its a great pricing point - Are you comparing it to consumer grade DSL ?
gatorcrunch

1 edit

1 recommendation

gatorcrunch to DeLiver3

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to DeLiver3
There is fiber ran out towards a cell tower that touches a point of being 1.25 miles away. From there, its 4 pairs of copper (1 redundant)

EDIT: No sticker shock, just the flat price. I was very careful to confirm the details before / after. Even asking to see a bill of another customer with any personal information removed to understand precisely the billing structure.
gatorcrunch

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gatorcrunch to 54761437

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to 54761437
I can say for certain frontier's business DSL is not delivered by a metro e connection. However, I'm not sure of exactly which technology. In general, and anyone with more expert knowledge please chime in if my wording is off or you can improve ... But, Metro E can be a mix of technologies, but in no form is a DSL connection. As frontier mentioned above it can be fed in more than one way. In my case, for instance, I only have 5 pairs ran up to the house, so going 40 meg is going to require that chunk to be replaced or added on to. I think where I'm at now I've shifted a lot off to dedicated servers on faster lines else where - I would love to get fiber to here so I can negotiate frontier could click on a higher speed sometime
54761437 (banned)
join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC

1 recommendation

54761437 (banned)

Member

What kind of ping times do you see?

frontiertech
@frontier.com

frontiertech to 54761437

Anon

to 54761437
could be either depending on what state you are in
frontiertech

frontiertech to gatorcrunch

Anon

to gatorcrunch
metro is available just about anywhere the Engineer decides weather to use copper of fiber. (also depends what you order). But metro is only available for a business account not res and they can charge you for the build. depending on the state so the start up cost and be high. and I hope you are not in a hurry it could take 6 months or more to complete
atigerman
join:2002-01-19
Tigerton, WI

atigerman to gatorcrunch

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to gatorcrunch
What is a Metro Ethernet connection can you define if for me? I don't understand this term.
gatorcrunch
join:2015-03-13
United State

gatorcrunch to 54761437

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to 54761437
I guess it would largely depend on where to. I had uploaded a video from my phone to youtube for a buddy while back:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· dG5HYkWs


If you have any specifics you wish to know where to, happy to check it out for you.

SuperSpy
join:2012-06-15
Coldwater, MI

1 recommendation

SuperSpy to gatorcrunch

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to gatorcrunch
Well I was comparing it to other business class connections. I mostly don't get what makes metro-e worth it unless you were looking for 100M+ speeds.

Also I was curious what you used it for that could justify the cost on such a fairly low speed connection.

ILpt4U
Premium Member
join:2006-11-12
Saint Louis, MO
ARRIS TM822
Asus RT-N66

1 recommendation

ILpt4U

Premium Member

said by SuperSpy:

Well I was comparing it to other business class connections. I mostly don't get what makes metro-e worth it unless you were looking for 100M+ speeds.

Also I was curious what you used it for that could justify the cost on such a fairly low speed connection.

Depending on the presence of and terms of a Service Level Agreement/SLA, slower speeds that are guaranteed to be up can be worth more, especially to businesses, than faster speeds with no/very little SLA/guaranteed uptime, as most Residential/Small Business DSL type connections tend to have

That being said: To the OP: Do you have a SLA on the circuit? And if so, what are the terms?
gatorcrunch
join:2015-03-13
United State

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gatorcrunch to SuperSpy

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to SuperSpy
I was too and thought the pricing was really competitive - Which ones were you thinking of ?

I want the connection to always be there, and for trucks to be flying out to my rescue if its ever down. The price is for a dedicated line, not a "best effort" service. If I'm not getting precisely the speed I should, something is wrong and will get attention 24/7. If the latency doubles, something is wrong, and will get the same attention. The line is leased end to end, dedicated completely (or partitioned appropriately to be so) for my use.

I don't want to call and maybe hear back in a day or two because techs are busy doing installs or be told the earliest time they can be out is "next Tuesday". That kind of thing makes me want to pull my hair out, go the bar and waste hours that could be better spent working. Maybe I'm a weird guy, but that's how I feel about it. The average amount of downtime or time period I stare angrily at a regular connection is more than made up for by thinking every day what a pleasure it is to have.

Maybe someone can word it better than me the difference, but to me its like a dirty thailand hotel versus a private beach villa. I don't reset a modem or reboot a router. Its just there. All the time.
gatorcrunch

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gatorcrunch to ILpt4U

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to ILpt4U
Pretty long in legal wording - My finding with this server (EDIT: service) with Frontier is they have offered me more than I felt right about taking. For instance, wanting to give me DSL fed from the box w/ fiber 1.25 miles away that. They pretty much custom made a 16/2 connection for me when I was seeing before about 1M / .3M. They wanted to give it for free until set up, I told them I felt right paying the $29.99 as I was before at the most. While there are the legal terms, I don't think saying "The line was down for 8 hours, made me do poorly, I'd like a 20% credit on this month's bill would be a request I would need to fight for". That said, maybe I just have the most common sense coolest rep I'm working with that really sees eye to eye with me.

I don't believe there is any latency guarantee, but the work is done right and the best I think it can possibly be. Credits are set to be a limit of 1/720th of the monthly bill per hour the line is down. The speed is guaranteed to be as state.

The common sense of it all is where I'm really impressed. For instance there was a lot of extra copper lines shoved towards me (they redid a 25 pair run of about 3/8ths of a mile to me based on it being finicky, no charge for me, and I do know the local crew well enough it wasn't free lets just say). I don't think they *had* to redo it, but they did anyway, because why were some pairs failing ? Then setting me up using 4 pairs with one as redundant was an awesome request they honored at no charge. Just. Cool.

So, my experience has been not one of a legal mumbo jumbo this or that, but a common sense one that has held together well to date (getting close to a year out). Sure, there is backup remedies for me if I have to view them, but the contract is in fact a little more geared towards them than it is "you".

cralt
join:2011-01-07
CT

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cralt to SuperSpy

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to SuperSpy
said by SuperSpy:

That's an astounding amount of money for only 15/15 so I have to ask: why?

Its actually not that bad depending on the SLA. Have you ever priced a p2p T1 (1.54m) or a simple analog 4wire leased line? The T1 is going to be more then $500 no problem and doesn't come with internet access.

I have found FTR's "commercial" side to actually be good. Its hard to believe they are the same company as the retail side which is a total nightmare.

You get 1 number to call that someone picks up with out phone tree nonsense and you just give them the circuit number and basic problem (LOS, bouncing,slipping, etc) and thats it.No questions they just roll a tech.

I called in a T1 last week for LOS around 4:30PM and had a tech calling me back at 1:30AM the same night who was onsite and reporting it repaired. I've also been surprised to see them show up late on a SUNDAY.

AT&T would roll next business day if after 3PM and didn't do anything on weekends.

rebus9
join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay

1 edit

1 recommendation

rebus9

Member

said by cralt:

said by SuperSpy:

That's an astounding amount of money for only 15/15 so I have to ask: why?

Its actually not that bad depending on the SLA. Have you ever priced a p2p T1 (1.54m) or a simple analog 4wire leased line? The T1 is going to be more then $500 no problem and doesn't come with internet access.

T1s have come down quite a bit, and I'm buying them now (in metro areas) for $325 for the loop plus transit. But they're only 1.5 Mbps and too slow for daily use, so we use them strictly as emergency standby circuits at locations that absolutely cannot go offline.

$325 for 1.5 Mbps... compared to the OP's $499 price for 15 Mbps on Metro-E. OP is getting a pretty good deal, although the 5 year term is a bit long. I keep ours to a max of 3 years.
said by cralt:

You get 1 number to call that someone picks up with out phone tree nonsense and you just give them the circuit number and basic problem (LOS, bouncing,slipping, etc) and thats it.No questions they just roll a tech.

And that is HUGE. During an outage, the worst thing is hitting a clueless Level 1 broadband tech who tells everyone to power-cycle and reboot. You want an empowered NOC tech with a clue. If they can't resolve, it gets escalated immediately.

That's when you enjoy some payback on that big monthly investment.
said by cralt:

AT&T would roll next business day if after 3PM and didn't do anything on weekends.

I've never dealt with AT&T (fortunately!!!). But with the carriers I use, the magic words at order time are "critical service" and they note the account. It helps that I deal a lot with healthcare. When I say "circuit down" and "in-patient unit caring for the critically ill", response is usually fast.

The problem is when the problem is isolated to the local loop provided by the ILEC. Verizon usually repairs their loops faster than CenturyLink does. Sadly, when we do have a T1 problem, it almost always involves one on CenturyLink copper.
coryw
join:2013-12-22
Flagstaff, AZ

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coryw to gatorcrunch

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to gatorcrunch
I'd be interested in seeing some photos and/or hearing more details about the exact equipment, what the setup is like, etc. Does the traditional demarcation point changed now that you're paying $499/mo for what's presumably some kind of managed service?

If you're only using three pairs worth of throughput, this is almost certainly g.shdsl. Also, the "one pair redundant" thing is interesting. Is that pair active, does your CPE show that you have 20 megs total available, but you're throttled in software to 15?

cralt
join:2011-01-07
CT

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cralt to rebus9

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to rebus9
said by rebus9:

But with the carriers I use, the magic words at order time are "critical service" and they note the account.

AT&T wouldn't care. lol. They didn't want to spend the big union bucks to bring someone in on OT so they would use up every second of their SLA.
said by rebus9:

T1s have come down quite a bit,

Thats good to hear.Around here the last one i heard the price on was around $1200 but that went around 30miles and pre-Frontier. In town 4wires are still in to the $300+ range I know that.
jelavich
join:2006-05-22
Elkins, WV

1 recommendation

jelavich to cralt

Member

to cralt
yes, when I had a T-1 to my house they would show up anytime day or night. It is a service that I was very happy to pay for.

I would probably consider buying their metro ethernet if they offered it here in WV. my 20/2 ADSL is very stable, but sometimes I'm pushing a lot of data over my work VPN and I could use something more solid. (and yes, it's worth me paying for it).

clara80
join:2012-02-15
Rochester, NY

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clara80 to SuperSpy

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to SuperSpy
said by SuperSpy:

That's an astounding amount of money for only 15/15 so I have to ask: why?

As others have also stated, you're mainly paying for the business class service should you have a problem with your circuit. Something else to keep in mind are the usual TCP ports that are blocked on residential lines are all wide open for business lines. The most important one for me at least is port 25 for hosting my own mail server.
tazeat
join:2004-10-22
Bothell, WA

1 recommendation

tazeat

Member

Do most ISPs even do that anymore? I thought for the most part all the port restrictions have been lifted, I know Frontier Fios here doesn't have any...

The SLA would be the only thing that I would care about, but even as a small business, the regular business class internets or even going cable AND dsl/fiber where available would be a hell of a lot more cost effective at orders of magnitude faster speeds. Then again you go more rural it changes quickly.

treich
join:2006-12-12

1 recommendation

treich to gatorcrunch

Member

to gatorcrunch
Im getting 100/100 fiber from frontier for 1400 dollars and Im in an rural area in ohio but the small co already have fiber connection in it.

I was told by frontier rep and outside plant mgt anything 50 less would be done in metro e and anything over 50meg haves to be done pure fiber.

landrover
join:2013-09-17
Martinsburg, WV

1 recommendation

landrover

Member

How long is your fiber run out of curiosity? That price doesn't seem to bad for symmetrical. (I'm not expert though).
atigerman
join:2002-01-19
Tigerton, WI

atigerman to treich

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to treich
1400 dollars a year, a month????

treich
join:2006-12-12

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treich

Member

an month.