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Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd

Premium Member

[Electrical] Is this a normal method in wiring?

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switch
This here is from me replacing a bathroom switch today and this is the old switch. The thing I am wondering if normal is that is it normal for the hot coming from the panel to have just that little mid section stripped and then continue onward, and then the hot to the lamp itself to be backstabbed? the GND also did this "continuous" loop thing.

Only wondering because I never saw anything like this in our house in CT that was built in the 1950s. This house here is from the mid 1990s.

no faults with the system everything works fine just never seen a setup like that.
Dodge
Premium Member
join:2002-11-27

Dodge

Premium Member

The backstab is bad, don't repeat that when you redo the switch. Don't know if the other connection is normal or not, when I changed my switches I fixed connections like that into a wirenut with a pigtail going into the switch. Also the yellow wirenut in the back, are the wires stripped past the wirenut itself or is that the lighting?
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd

Premium Member

the lighting, As for the backstab I do not believe in them. All three I replaced today were redone using the screw terminals.

Unlike the guys who were putting them in when the development was being mass produced I do not care about spending an extra few seconds to use the terminals instead of jab and go.
HarryH3
Premium Member
join:2005-02-21

HarryH3 to Kearnstd

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to Kearnstd
I've seen it quite often. The rule is that only ONE wire can go under the head of the screw. Doing it that way saves the time to make up a true pigtail, while still passing inspection.

cowboyro
Premium Member
join:2000-10-11
CT

cowboyro to Kearnstd

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to Kearnstd
It's normal for "professionals". After all it saves 30 seconds and guarantees a return visit to repair.
Hellrazor
Bah Humbug
join:2002-02-02
Abyss, PA

4 recommendations

Hellrazor

Member

said by cowboyro:

It's normal for "professionals". After all it saves 30 seconds and guarantees a return visit to repair.

Still having your temper tantrum about electricians?

OP - Not normal. Don't use the back stabs for any reason. The terminals are the best way to go by far.

IMO - Probably some handyman thought it was a good idea right after they repaired the TV. Right cowboyro?

Jack in VA
Premium Member
join:2014-07-07
North, VA

Jack in VA

Premium Member

said by Hellrazor:

said by cowboyro:

It's normal for "professionals". After all it saves 30 seconds and guarantees a return visit to repair.

Still having your temper tantrum about electricians?

OP - Not normal. Don't use the back stabs for any reason. The terminals are the best way to go by far.

IMO - Probably some handyman thought it was a good idea right after they repaired the TV. Right cowboyro?

+1
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

LittleBill to Kearnstd

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to Kearnstd
what i would like to know, is what tool they are using to strip the insulation in the middle like that, its not a knife, but wire cutters take way too long to do that. any idea's i know its something simple

Not me
@myvzw.com

Not me

Anon

A wire stripper will cut the insulation cleanly and slide it up the solid wire.

@ the OP

I see looped continuous pigtails pretty regularly in multi - gang boxes with multiple switches being fed from the same hot. What was done is probably better than using the terminal screw for one conductor and the stab for the other. At least the current for the loads downstream don't pass through the stab in connection. Ground is odd but at least it's connected. In older residential work, I see MANY switches with no ground connected.

guppy_fish
Premium Member
join:2003-12-09
Palm Harbor, FL

guppy_fish to LittleBill

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to LittleBill
said by LittleBill:

any idea's i know its something simple

Commercial wire strippers, takes 5 seconds

»mdwindustrialsupply.com/ ··· 825.html
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to Hellrazor

Premium Member

to Hellrazor
I must be old fashioned then because every switch is backstabbed... But I refuse to use anything other than the screws. I would not trust any other method honestly.

Of course I am not a builder tossing up a whole development of a few hundred homes, So I can afford to take the time and secure the wires good and tight in the screw terminals.

Jack in VA
Premium Member
join:2014-07-07
North, VA

Jack in VA to guppy_fish

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to guppy_fish
said by guppy_fish:

said by LittleBill:

any idea's i know its something simple

Commercial wire strippers, takes 5 seconds

»mdwindustrialsupply.com/ ··· 825.html

Can you explain how that stripper will remove say 1" of insulation in the wire in order to bend the wire over the screw and continue on to the next device?

cybersaga
join:2011-12-19
Selby, ON

2 recommendations

cybersaga

Member

It doesn't remove 1" of insulation. It cuts the insulation and pushes it apart.

Jack in VA
Premium Member
join:2014-07-07
North, VA

Jack in VA

Premium Member

Pushes it apart? Where does it push it to? That type stripper works great on the end where it cuts the insulation and pushes it off the conductor. But.....what if it's not the end of the wire and you just want to remove enough insulation to be able to make a loop to go under the screw?

Cho Baka
MVM
join:2000-11-23
there

3 recommendations

Cho Baka

MVM

Go to approx 59 seconds:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· R72oDGE8

cybersaga
join:2011-12-19
Selby, ON

cybersaga to Jack in VA

Member

to Jack in VA
said by Jack in VA:

That type stripper works great on the end where it cuts the insulation and pushes it off the conductor

That's exactly what's happening. That technique may not be able to move the insulation if you're trying to do that in the middle of a 10-foot run, but in this case, there is only a few inches between there and the end of that wire.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

nunya to Kearnstd

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to Kearnstd
I mostly see that in residential developments. Depending where you are located, resi guys can be "less than qualified" to do the work. "Hey Jim-Bob, come down off the roof, you're running wire today".
Personally I wouldn't use that method. The screw smashes the wire somewhat, leaving the possibility of trouble to the field in the future.
It doesn't take that long to install a wing nut.

Jack in VA
Premium Member
join:2014-07-07
North, VA

Jack in VA to Cho Baka

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to Cho Baka
said by Cho Baka:

Go to approx 59 seconds:

(youtube clip)

Thanks. I've never seen one of these. Seems to work well.
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

LittleBill to Cho Baka

Member

to Cho Baka
said by Cho Baka:

Go to approx 59 seconds:

(youtube clip)

lol i just bought this. seems way faster then my normal strippers
Speedy Petey
join:2008-01-19

Speedy Petey to nunya

Member

to nunya
said by nunya:

I mostly see that in residential developments. Depending where you are located, resi guys can be "less than qualified" to do the work. "Hey Jim-Bob, come down off the roof, you're running wire today".

I know "resi guys" get a bad wrap from industrial guys, but what you are describing is NOT a residential electrician. It's those all-in-one contractors that think that can do a professional job of framing, insulation, sheetrock & taping, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, etc.
NO ONE can do a professional job at every trade.
Speedy Petey

4 recommendations

Speedy Petey to cowboyro

Member

to cowboyro
said by cowboyro:

It's normal for "professionals". After all it saves 30 seconds and guarantees a return visit to repair.

You're pathetic, really.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO

nunya to Speedy Petey

MVM

to Speedy Petey
I should have been more specific. Residential home builders. Where there is one Master Electrician who sits in a 75 degree office year round and allegedly supervises the electrical work being done on job sites.

cowboyro
Premium Member
join:2000-10-11
CT

cowboyro to Speedy Petey

Premium Member

to Speedy Petey
said by Speedy Petey:

said by cowboyro:

It's normal for "professionals". After all it saves 30 seconds and guarantees a return visit to repair.

You're pathetic, really.

Is there any other reason for making such crappy work? Any? Hmmm?
Silently defending crappy unsafe work... Talk about being pathetic...

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO

1 recommendation

nunya

MVM

It was probably done by an IT guy.

garys_2k
Premium Member
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI

garys_2k to nunya

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to nunya
said by nunya:

Personally I wouldn't use that method. The screw smashes the wire somewhat, leaving the possibility of trouble to the field in the future.

Thanks, I'd wondered about that method and what the down sides may be. It *seems* like a reasonable way to avoid a splice, but I see what you mean about possibly reducing the wire's cross section (and hence current capacity) where it's compressed. Thanks.

cowboyro
Premium Member
join:2000-10-11
CT

cowboyro to nunya

Premium Member

to nunya
said by nunya:

It was probably done by an IT guy.

Extremely doubtful, IT guys know how to wire things, after all they have to fix the crap that electricians leave behind.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO

nunya

MVM

IT guys are the worst. Way overpaid for doing a job anybody could do after 8 weeks at DeVry. Always ripping people off. Most of them just sit around and play video games all day.
nunya

8 recommendations

nunya

MVM

*BTW to any IT guys, I don't really think that. I actually know what it's really like to do IT (and programming) work. Just trying to prove that it's not so funny when someone generalizes YOUR profession as "less than noble".
telco_mtl
join:2012-01-06

telco_mtl

Member

said by nunya:

*BTW to any IT guys, I don't really think that. I actually know what it's really like to do IT (and programming) work. Just trying to prove that it's not so funny when someone generalizes YOUR profession as "less than noble".

Thanks, Im an IT guy, and had i ignored my guidance counselor i would have been an electrician, what i wanted to do since i was six, sadly i assumed she knew what she was talking about. Any time i have had a job done by a skilled trades person it has always been done right, on time and not half assed. Sadly my 1950s house previous owner fancied himself an electrician, plumber and a whole bunch of other trades. thankfully i have friends in the trades. And Nunya, thanks for being a voice of reason on these sometimes topsy turvy message boards

John97
Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium Member
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL

1 recommendation

John97 to nunya

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to nunya
ROFL...

I'm an IT guy (that's why I look for help here on alot of this stuff). After reading all of the posts here over the years, I went through every outlet and switch in my house and "de-backstabbed" them all. It was very time-consuming. I forget the count, but there are a buttload of outlets and switches in this place.

During the process, I also discovered and replaced a few worn switches and outlets that needed to be replaced, which made it an even more worthwhile endeavor.