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battleop
join:2005-09-28
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battleop to arpawocky

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Re: [Voip.ms] Call 811 Before You Dig?

I've had several test phones from other carriers's Broadsoft and Meta switches and they all used 711 for anything other than TRS. Just out of curiosity I looked this morning and I can't find any calls or attempted calls to 211 or 711 in the last 12 months, not even test calls from us. I guess I better fix that.
battleop

battleop to Stewart

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to Stewart
The problem with me posting who I work for is that it breaks a long time "agreement" that I can say anything I want any place anywhere as long as I don't say who I work for.

We require a static IP for the HQ office where the bulk of the phones are located. If we do Hosted PBX for a customer they get a router, phones, and a POE switch. They have to open a ticket for us to setup a teleworker phone and send them a power supply for that phone. If they have a dynamic IP they can updated their e911 via the phone it's self or thought their user portal. Most people keep their dynamic IP for extended periods of time so we often have them give us their IP and we set it up like a static IP.
79176722 (banned)
VoIP.ms, Magento, and lotsa open tabs
join:2015-02-19
Miami, FL

1 recommendation

79176722 (banned)

Member

I think there could be several ways of knowing when a person with a new dynamic IP is still in fact in the same physical location as yesterday, without bothering the user. Something as simple as confirming that his phone's MAC address is connecting directly to a static router that is immobile. In other words, your IP address may change, but you stayed in the same physical location because you're now still connecting to the same ol' router in the same ol' closet.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

1 recommendation

PX Eliezer1 to battleop

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to battleop
said by battleop:

711 is supposed to tell you who your LD provider is.

No, as was said 711 is for TRS (Telecommunications Relay Services).

And---as it turns out---there is FCC mandate for all providers to do 711 for this purpose.

»www.fcc.gov/guides/711-t ··· -service
»transition.fcc.gov/711/
PX Eliezer1

PX Eliezer1 to battleop

Premium Member

to battleop
said by battleop:

Probably. Our E911 provider based in Canada probably to escape liabilities of some sorts. Their hardware is in the USA, NYC and LA if I remember correctly.

If you mean Northern911, they are a big company in Canada that also serves US customers.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

We use 911 Enable.
OzarkEdge
join:2014-02-23
USA

1 recommendation

OzarkEdge to battleop

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to battleop
said by battleop:

It's an extremely trivial task for a provider to setup 811. I can't understand why all US providers wouldn't do this. I create 211/311/511/811 dial plans for every new Area Code/LATA we add to our network. I have someone track down the local number for each service and create dial plans.

Thanks for the helpful discussion, everyone! It appears the best solution is to map unsupported x11 services to their 800 number in the user agent dial plan. An OBi can do this.

Here are my relevant US/state/city services:

211  Essential Community Services (by state) (»www.211.org)
311  Non-Emergency City Services (by city)
411  National Directory Assistance (NDA) (US/CA)
511  Traveler Information (by state)
611  Poison Control Center (US/CA) (was Report a Telephone Service Problem) (»www.aapcc.org)
711  Telecommunications Relay Service (by state) (»www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia ··· irectory t=tty/tdd/pc, v=voice)
811  Call Before You Dig/Miss Utility (by state) (»www.call811.com)
911  Emergency Services

For me, 311 is not used, and 411 and 911 are routed by VoIP.ms. I've mapped the others to their 800 number in (Msvc) and embedded this where required. I repurposed 611 to call the Poison Control Center.

I actually don't subscribe to 411... is there an 800 equivalent? What's the difference between 411 and npa-555-1212? I did stumble across this directory site »www.anywho.com/whitepages.

OE

arpawocky
Premium Member
join:2014-04-13
Columbus, OH

1 recommendation

arpawocky

Premium Member

said by OzarkEdge:

I actually don't subscribe to 411... is there an 800 equivalent?

Kindof... Marchex has a free (ad supported) 411 service which can be reached at 1-800-FREE-411
OzarkEdge
join:2014-02-23
USA

OzarkEdge

Member

Worth a try, I guess! Thanks!

OE

arpawocky
Premium Member
join:2014-04-13
Columbus, OH

arpawocky

Premium Member

I use it for 411, and I haven't had any problems with it.. AFAIK CallCentric sends 411 calls there as well (I could be mistaken on this point)

My daughter (she's 1) likes to dial 411 and 944. I think it is her way of threatening to dial 911... Anyway, at least now when she dials 411, I dont incur a charge.
OzarkEdge
join:2014-02-23
USA

OzarkEdge

Member

You may not want to map 211... Social Services aka child welfare.

OE

battleop
join:2005-09-28
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battleop to PX Eliezer1

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to PX Eliezer1
After reading this I went online and looked up a few numbers for 711. I called a couple of them until I found a nice English speaking lady who sounded friendly and then pointed my 711 traffic to that number. Here is the website for their service and it's free. »goo.gl/On0JFK

WhyADuck
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join:2003-03-05

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WhyADuck to OzarkEdge

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to OzarkEdge
As far as I can determine, all that most of these number are (with 911 being the lone exception) are speed dial numbers that redirect to various toll-free (usually) or local numbers. And in many cases these numbers are published on various web pages; you just have to do a proper search (for example, the three digit code plus the jurisdiction will often turn up something).

211 is usually to an agency that serves a county, or multiple counties within a state. They almost always have an alternative toll-free or local number.

311 is rarely implemented in my experience, but when it is, it is often to a police non-emergency number. Google the local police web page and if they mention 311, it may say something like "311 or (some other number)", and that other number is how you redirect the calls.

411 is directory assistance - I wonder how long it will be until that is reassigned. For now I just redirect it to one of the free services, such as 1-800-FREE-411 (are there any others that still work)?

511 is a usually a statewide travel information line although I suppose it could go to different numbers in different regions of larger states. It's not used in all states, but most states do have a toll-free information number that gives current road conditions, and that's what I use.

611 is routed to customer service on most cell phone companies. Since the users on my system all know how to get in touch with me, I don't implement that, but if I did I'd just route it to my extension.

711 is supposed to go to the Telecommunications Relay Service. This one's a bit tricky because the number is different for each state, and even the list that OzarkEdge linked to is rather confusing with regard to some states, and shows no TTY number other than 711 for others. Fortunately, I have no hearing impaired users, or I might be more concerned about this. I map the ones I can, while the others just might wind up at a TTY center for an adjacent state (shhh!) but in the entire history of my switch, I have never seen a single attempt to call 711. In fact, if I ever saw it used, my first thought would be to wonder if a hacker had got into my system and was trying to defraud some business using 711.

811 is the universal number in the USA for underground utility location services. Again, OzarkEdge gave a great link that can be used to find the one(s) that serve the areas where your users are located (actually, here is the page that lists the state-specific numbers). In Canada, see this page.

If you have an Asterisk or FreePBX based switch, it is not too difficult to build translation tables in your outbound routes. Of course it's easier if all your users are in a single geographic location, but even if you have users in various locations, in most cases all you need to do is add some additional dial plan. For example, I have one outbound route that specifically handles toll-free calls. Here is a rule I might use to direct 811 calls for a couple of users in Minnesota (just as an example):

18002521166+811|/117[45]

This means if a call is from extension 1174 or 1175, and the dialed pattern was 811, replace it with 18002521166 before sending it to the trunk. There is nothing between the | and the / characters because I am doing a complete replacement, in other words if 811 is called I'm not passing any part of that 811 on to the trunk. This is a slightly unusual usage of the dial plan syntax, but it definitely works. Of course if it's not a toll free number, then I have to do this in a different outbound route.

if you have more than a few users out of the local area, this list could get a bit unwieldy rather quickly, especially if you map all of the possible n11 combinations, so there are probably better ways to accomplish this in that case. But even if you are only running a small system for the extended family, it's not too hard to map these. The exception comes when you have a user outside the USA and no local trunks to their area. If the destination is a toll-free number you might find it impossible to complete the call. For example, if you have users in Canada and some of the services map to toll-free numbers there, and you don't have a way to connect to toll-free Canadian numbers (is there even a free service that will do that?), then you are probably out of luck for those unless you can find an equivalent non-tollfree number and have a way to complete the call. This assumes that you even know what n11 mapping is supposed to be in that area. And does your user expect local n11 mapping, or USA n11 mapping because maybe they have a USA number through your switch? So in that case, all bets are off. And I'm not even touching 911 in this post.

arpawocky
Premium Member
join:2014-04-13
Columbus, OH

arpawocky to OzarkEdge

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said by OzarkEdge:

611  Poison Control Center (US/CA) (was Report a Telephone Service Problem) (»www.aapcc.org)

Doesn't quite follow the N-1-1 format, but 2-2-2 might be a good speed-dial for poison control.

And 6-6-6 could be mapped to AT&T customer service.

WhyADuck
Premium Member
join:2003-03-05

WhyADuck

Premium Member

said by arpawocky:

And 6-6-6 could be mapped to AT&T customer service.

No, that number's reserved for Comcast.

In all seriousness, be careful about doing stuff like that because there are exchanges and area codes that begin with three digit numbers like 222 or 666, and depending on your switch configuration you might inadvertently prevent users from dialing those exchanges or area codes.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

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PX Eliezer1 to WhyADuck

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to WhyADuck
Excellent roundup.

I would note that 311 is huge in many cities such as New York.

Launched in March 2003, 311 (in NYC) now fields on average more than 50,000 calls a day, offering information about more than 3,600 topics: school closings, recycling rules, homeless shelters, park events, pothole repairs. The service has translators on call to handle some 180 different languages.

»www.wired.com/2010/11/ff ··· ew_york/

arpawocky
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join:2014-04-13
Columbus, OH

arpawocky to WhyADuck

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said by WhyADuck:

said by arpawocky:

And 6-6-6 could be mapped to AT&T customer service.

No, that number's reserved for Comcast.

Better still, depending on the end-users physical location, it could route to Comcast or AT&T, unless the end user is in an area serviced by both (or neither), in which case it could route to Verizon. :P
said by WhyADuck:

In all seriousness, be careful about doing stuff like that because there are exchanges and area codes that begin with three digit numbers like 222 or 666, and depending on your switch configuration you might inadvertently prevent users from dialing those exchanges or area codes.

Two points:

1: Currently, neither 222 nor 666 are valid NANPA area codes, although both are listed by NANPA as assignable ERCs - so that could change in the future. Even so, a conflict can be avoided simply by requiring 1NPANXXXXXX instead of NPANXXXXXXX, and it is rather unlikely (IMHO) that 666 will ever get assigned by NANPA.

2: Even with 10-digit dialing, and even if 222 and 666 were both valid area codes, a sip server gets the entire RURI at once - so 2225551212@sip.example.com is clearly different from the switch's standpoint from 222@sip.example.com. The endpoint, whether phone or ATA, could conceivably have issues with it however - depending on its dialplan.
OzarkEdge
join:2014-02-23
USA

OzarkEdge to WhyADuck

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to WhyADuck
said by WhyADuck:

>>As far as I can determine, all that most of these number are (with 911 being the lone exception) are speed dial numbers that redirect to various toll-free (usually) or local numbers. And in many cases these numbers are published on various web pages; you just have to do a proper search (for example, the three digit code plus the jurisdiction will often turn up something).

Yeah, that's what I did. Hence my summary solution.

>>211 is usually to an agency that serves a county, or multiple counties within a state. They almost always have an alternative toll-free or local number.

Yeah, go to the website I posted, enter your zip code, and copy the 800 number that pops up.

>>311 is rarely implemented in my experience, but when it is, it is often to a police non-emergency number. Google the local police web page and if they mention 311, it may say something like "311 or (some other number)", and that other number is how you redirect the calls.

311 is Non-Emergency Municipal Services and Information... numerous localities use it. Google if yours and copy the number.

>>411 is directory assistance

This one's pretty obvious and doesn't need mapping.

>>511 is a usually a statewide travel information line although I suppose it could go to different numbers in different regions of larger states. It's not used in all states, but most states do have a toll-free information number that gives current road conditions, and that's what I use.

Yep, 511 is Travel Info... posted along highways all over the place... Google if your state and copy the number. It will likely be on your state DOT website.

>>611 is routed to customer service on most cell phone companies. Since the users on my system all know how to get in touch with me, I don't implement that, but if I did I'd just route it to my extension.

611 is not officially assigned. Feel free to re-use it.

>>711 is supposed to go to the Telecommunications Relay Service.

It does. Copy the number in the front of your local phone book.

>>811 is the universal number in the USA for underground utility location services.

Another easy one. Copy the number in the front of your local phone book. Or find your state on the website »www.call811.com/state-sp ··· fic.aspx I posted and copy the number.

OE
OzarkEdge

OzarkEdge to arpawocky

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to arpawocky
said by arpawocky:

said by OzarkEdge:

611  Poison Control Center (US/CA) (was Report a Telephone Service Problem) (»www.aapcc.org)

Doesn't quite follow the N-1-1 format, but 2-2-2 might be a good speed-dial for poison control.

And 6-6-6 could be mapped to AT&T customer service.

I'll stick with 611... I've always thought about a speed dial to the PCC... 611 will do just fine.

OE
79176722 (banned)
VoIP.ms, Magento, and lotsa open tabs
join:2015-02-19
Miami, FL

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79176722 (banned)

Member

I thought about this topic for a little bit and I arrived at the realization that other than 911, it would be a waste of time for me to support any other x11 for my own lines because I (and everyone else in the family) will never remember what # needs to be dialed for what service (and I'd always get better info on the web equivalent of that service anyway). 411 is dead for our family. Much easier grabbing the smartphone and yelling "call Pizza Hut on 10th St". No pointless "city please?" or going through audio lists that I can read on the smartphone screen in a fraction of the time.

I'm not sure, but I get a feeling that 911 can also act as poison control or transfer you there in mere seconds.

Thus, because 911 is the real deal, I may end up mapping any (unused) 1 to 4 digit # to 911, or at least all emergency #'s used worldwide. For short #'s not used for emergency anywhere in the world I guess it could sound a brief "calling emergency [4 second silence]" just before connecting the call to give the chance to hang up if not wishing to actually call 911 (but rather to dial some extension but not dialing the extension right)...

Actually, for emergency #'s that conflict with regular (non-emergency) dialed US numbers such as 1X, 1XX, and 1XXX, the audio msg should be reversed "[4 second silence] calling emergency" since you wouldn't want to confuse users dialing 1-800-FLOWERS, for example, the instant they finished dialing just the 18 or 180 (both of which are emergency #'s somewhere in the world).
OzarkEdge
join:2014-02-23
USA

OzarkEdge

Member

My goal is academic... to finish replacing my landline for any prospective user.

I do agree not to lift a finger to order pizza.

And I think I'll repurpose 111 to dial USNO telephone time... that can be handy.

Heads up... Obihai is beta testing an OBiTALK interface to NEST products... here comes the IoTs for better or for worse.

OE
mikev
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Leesburg, VA
·Verizon FiOS
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mikev to OzarkEdge

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to OzarkEdge
Just a note that in case your provider might not redirect those numbers, most devices can also do number replacement in the dial plan. For example, here in Virginia, I use the following in the dial plan for my phone...

<511:18666951182>|<811:18005527001>
OzarkEdge
join:2014-02-23
USA

OzarkEdge

Member

Right... that's what this topic has concluded... in the absence of ITSP support... put it in the dial plan.

My dial plan (in my notes) now has:

(Msvc) = Service = (<111:2027621401>|<211:8002306977>|<511:8666951182>|<611:8002221222>|<711:8008281140>|<811:8005527001>)

I omit the NDD prefix (1) except where required... it's mostly not required.

No 311 here... so I think I'll map 311 to the local non-emergency police number. Sometimes you need to call those guys to give them some non-emergency assistance.

OE
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

2 recommendations

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

said by OzarkEdge:

I omit the NDD prefix (1) except where required... it's mostly not required.

I always use the North American (1) prefix both in dial plans and manually, for several reasons:

1) Some providers do need it (eg CWU and CC but others too).

2) It never hurts.

3) Sometimes it may save your butt. If you were to dial the Washington, DC number you mentioned 2027621401 on CWU without the (1) you would be calling Cairo.

4) Sometimes various devices seem to "miss" the first keypress. Hitting the (1) for example on my fax machine or my mobile, helps to wake it up.

I've never seen where dialing (1) causes a problem. I do it always.

And it does literally say that Canada and the USA are #1.

arpawocky
Premium Member
join:2014-04-13
Columbus, OH

arpawocky

Premium Member

said by PX Eliezer1:

I always use the North American (1) prefix both in dial plans and manually

Me too. On my PBX, if you dial 614XXXXXXX you'll reach Australia (New South Wales, If I remember correctly). If you dial 1614XXXXXXX or +1614XXXXXXX you'll reach Columbus, OH.

(and yes, I actually put a sticker on all the phones about the dialing format - in addition to the typical e911 warnings - because guests are not used to having to dial a 1 when making a local call...)

For me, it is about consistency and standardization. I'm a bit OCD, and the idea of dialing a country code for some locations and not others just seems weird, as weird as dialing an area code for some locations and not others.

For the same reason, I use E164 format for incoming caller id.
said by PX Eliezer1:

And it does literally say that Canada and the USA are #1.

Amen!

And, if you use the full E.164 format, you're saying +1 to North America every time you place a call to a North American destination.

cb14
join:2013-02-04
Miami Beach, FL

cb14 to 79176722

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said by 79176722:

No pointless "city please?"

Pointless indeed. Our metro area has been chopped up in tiny strips of suburbia each with giant city hall and it is often difficult to say, unless you have a smart phone and exact address in order to check the property appraiser's web site, in which "city" or 'unincorporated metro 'the business/ person is located.
79176722 (banned)
VoIP.ms, Magento, and lotsa open tabs
join:2015-02-19
Miami, FL

3 edits

79176722 (banned) to OzarkEdge

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to OzarkEdge
said by OzarkEdge:

Sometimes you need to call those guys to give them some non-emergency assistance.

The question is: will you remember this 311 shortcut months/years from now after not needing to use it?

For these rare cases I personally just dial 911 and tell them I don't have an emergency and they've always helped me by forwarding the call to the right party. What I'm doing is probably technically illegal, but I seriously doubt that my once in a blue moon call will cause an overflow at the 911 call center which would prevent a real emergency from getting a hold of a dispatcher.

If I were to stop doing that last bit, then instead I'd probably choose to simply add "LOCAL POLICE" to my searchable contacts. I already have contacts for the water dept, garbage collection dept and a few others that I call every few months.
said by arpawocky:

(and yes, I actually put a sticker on all the phones about the dialing format - in addition to the typical e911 warnings - because guests are not used to having to dial a 1 when making a local call...)

Sounds to me like unnecessary headache. I'd allow guests to dial whichever way they're used to, especially if I don't need to call Australia anyway. I understand the viewpoint of wanting consistency, but I personally usually prefer some added one-time complexity in order to get long-time simplicity/convenience/peace of mind.
MartinM
VoIP.ms
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join:2008-07-21

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MartinM to cb14

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to cb14
said by cb14:

Callcentric doesn't allow it.
Callcentric at least has the decency to play a message explaining you that 811 is a special service number which cannot be reached from your Callcentric phone. Thumbs up. The other providers just leave you with error message

We do this to not screw the dial plan of the customer (e.g: Asterisk falling back to other carriers), however, we're in the process of adding an option for customers to choose voice error messages instead of SIP codes if they wish to.

We do have 311, 511 and 811 in Canada though, for USA, I will look into it.

arpawocky
Premium Member
join:2014-04-13
Columbus, OH

arpawocky

Premium Member

said by MartinM:

We do have 311, 511 and 811 in Canada though, for USA, I will look into it.

Do it. Add 211 & 711 too. You'll be in the minority of BYOD providers that have full N11 in the U.S. (as you already have 911 and (IIRC) 411..)

311 (and 211) is almost always going to route to a local number, which specific number may vary by county or city. 511 & 811 (and 711, for that matter) will route to a different toll-free number depending on the state.
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