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wmcfan
join:2015-03-15

wmcfan

Member

No CableCARDs at Verizon FiOS TV?

I use Windows Media Center on Windows 7 to record and watch TV. Because of changes at Cox Cable, I have started looking into going with FiOS TV since I already have FiOS Internet with Verizon to save a few bucks. My research is showing that FCC requires all carriers to offer CableCARD support, and even the Verizon web site mentions its support and price. But I just had a Chat session with a Verizon rep on the order process and he says CableCARDs are not available through Verizon. Can anyone confirm if this is true, has FCC changed this rule, or is the rep confused? Thanks.

KoolMoe
Aw Man
Premium Member
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD

KoolMoe

Premium Member

I have FIOS but do not have any cablecards, and availability may be dependent on location...but overall they certainly do offer them. Either the rep was 'confused', or perhaps they're 'out of stock' at the moment, or the rep meant they weren't available for specific features you may want:

»www.verizon.com/Support/ ··· 916.htm#

»forums.verizon.com/t5/Fi ··· /page/11

»www.verizon.com/Support/ ··· ards.htm

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

Thinkdiff to wmcfan

MVM,

to wmcfan
Some reps don't know what they are so they just say they don't offer them.

FiOS most definitely has CableCARDs. However, it is very difficult to order FiOS TV without a STB - I don't think the website allows it at all. You will most likely have to place the order over the phone or place an order for FiOS TV w/ STB online and then call to change the order.

almahix
Allegro ma non troppo
join:1999-10-18
Camarillo, CA

almahix to KoolMoe

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to KoolMoe
I had cable cards from verizon before I switched to quantum last summer. No problem.
bsangs
join:2002-08-21
Montclair, NJ

bsangs to wmcfan

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to wmcfan
I have two cable cards from FiOS right now.
fcfc2
join:2014-05-17

1 edit

fcfc2 to wmcfan

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to wmcfan
Hi, the Verizon CSR who you spoke to misrepresented the facts for some reason? Verizon has played games with getting cablecards and seems to have settled into their current pattern which is, on a new install, you cannot order a cablecard online. The easiest thing is simply place the order online with one STB, then call in to get the cablecard added to your order, but do not be surprised if the installer shows up without one. If you are lucky, and get the CC installed, just return the STB asap and go about your business but do not "refuse" the initial STB install. If not and there are local full service stores in your area, call to see if they have cablecards in stock. If so, take the STB and return it when you pick up the CC. If no stores, get ready to pay $20 or so to have them ship one to you and ask for a box to return the STB at the same time.
In case no one mentioned, the standard install for up to 75/75 is coax, and you will be told your options are to rent, buy, or provide your own Verizon router. The cheapest route is usually to buy one from Ebay. It also has been debated if you must have either the Gateway G1100, Actiontec Rev. I or if you are on one of the lower speed tiers you can still use an older/ cheaper Actiontec Revision.
Edit: This post was edited to reflect the concern from CSR Acc708 below, which indicates that on "some" packages the price is conditional on accepting the install of at least one STB, otherwise, you may find a very unpleasant surprise when your first bill arrives and apparently, you will be charged alacarte prices for the services. I guess you really need to get out the magnifying glasses and go over the contract to determine what you are going to get and for what price.
elefante72
join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

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I use CC w/ FiOS and W7MC ONLY, and CC is MANDATORY for a cable system, and once you place an order (and get the order#) you can go ahead and order the CC online or walk into a store and get one. It infuriates me that this stuff happens, but I would place a request in the Verizon direct forum to assist you. BTW it is $4.99 a month.

Please let us know how that goes.

You may even be able to skip the "mandatory" STB all together. Since you are already a FiOS sub, I am sure you have the router situation solved. If they insist on the STB, then simply walk into your local UPS store or Verizon store and send it back.

Sadly activating the CC is quite easy...You go to a website put in the CC info an bam you are up.

Strangely they offer me renewals all the time, and they never force a STB on me. All packages assume the same equipment.

I forgot to mention, CC are self-install so you don't need a truck roll if you know what you are doing.
wmcfan
join:2015-03-15

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Thanks fcfc2 and everyone for the information. It looks like I can probably get a card if I jump though the hoops. I wouldn't be surprised if the reps are instructed to discourage CableCARD use, given they're probably money losers for the providers and only make them available because of FCC regulations. Now I just have to decide if I want to take a chance on locking in a two-year contract even with the small risk that I won't get set up on a card. I actually won't need to return any STBs because I will need two of those (for convenience for the rest of the family) even with a card (for my HTPC running on a to be purchased HDHomerun Prime 3).
dfwguy
join:2013-10-24

dfwguy

Member

You can always order them after the fact, just not at installation. I've been using CableCard with FiOS and an HDHomeRun Prime for years. Phone/chat reps mostly know nothing, just use the Direct forum here if you need something done to the card (pairing and stuff). The website never worked for me.
compuguy
join:2003-05-26
Burke, VA

compuguy to Thinkdiff

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to Thinkdiff
said by Thinkdiff:

Some reps don't know what they are so they just say they don't offer them.

FiOS most definitely has CableCARDs. However, it is very difficult to order FiOS TV without a STB - I don't think the website allows it at all. You will most likely have to place the order over the phone or place an order for FiOS TV w/ STB online and then call to change the order.

Funny thing is that before they pushed the router rentals, you could order FIOS with a cablecard. I remember doing that in the fall of 2013.
elefante72
join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

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Once you get it setup you will find an Xbox extender to be far superior to a STB because it runs many apps (including plex) and you can get them used for under $100. I actually decommed a few Roku and now only use Xbox360. The only app that it doesn't have that we use quite frequently is Pandora. You now also don't need XBG to get access.

That and I picked up a year of Xbox music for $31 yesterday and now I use both.

I would steer clear of Windows 8 for media center and stick w/ 7.

That and donate to comskip and automatically cut out commercials.

Acc708
join:2008-06-28

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said by fcfc2:

If you are lucky, and get the CC installed, just refuse the STB and go about your business.

Bad advice. I have literally been told the customer will not get the package price they were quoted if the stb was not installed. Apparently, some offers are tied to having a cable box installed on install. I fought it and lost. Even my supervisor couldn't override this.

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

Thinkdiff

MVM,

I don't know if this is true, but I tend to agree. Verizon billing is bad enough; trying to play games with refusing a STB on delivery or not letting the installer hook it up could lead to headaches. Seems more straight forward to install it, then return it the next day. I recently did this with a Double Play promotion without any resistance or billing issues.
wmcfan
join:2015-03-15

wmcfan to Acc708

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The STB shouldn't be a problem in my case, I will be using a couple of them for other rooms in the house. I need to look into what happens if I locked in a two-year contract and then find out they won't let me add the CableCARD. I'll try to get in touch with a local store or call them in the next few days when I'm up to some frustration LOL. It almost makes me want to just hook up an antenna in my attic. I already bought one last year when a good one was on sale, just to see what kind of signal I'd get, and it's not bad when I tested putting it in the attic. I already have a two-tuner Hauppauge board in my HTPC so there'd be no additional hardware change. There're a few cable-only channels we'd miss, but it's looking better every time they raise the price.

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

Thinkdiff

MVM,

said by wmcfan:

I need to look into what happens if I locked in a two-year contract and then find out they won't let me add the CableCARD.

Not sure what is giving you this impression, but you're overthinking it. You will be able to add a CableCARD to any FiOS TV package. No question about it. Worst case is you have to pay $20 (or $25?) for shipping.
dfwguy
join:2013-10-24

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said by Acc708:

Bad advice. I have literally been told the customer will not get the package price they were quoted if the stb was not installed. Apparently, some offers are tied to having a cable box installed on install. I fought it and lost. Even my supervisor couldn't override this.

Sounds like someone should have filed an FCC complaint, because that's a violation of CableCard regulations.

Acc708
join:2008-06-28

Acc708

Member

There was no violation. He was welcome to add a cablecard, but he was not permitted to get the package price without the stb as it was part of the deal.
elefante72
join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

elefante72

Member

I must admit Time Warner ordering systems are LIGHT Years better than Verizon. Verizon is a hot mess. I'm not under contract and checked for deals. In any case you get a grid that shows you triple play, you fiddle with the grid. For instance it tells me $10 less a month if I go from 75/75 to 50/50. I click on it, and the price remains the same. It says -$30 to go from prime to select, you click it and the price goes UP $20. I am pretty sure that you can't actually order anything at Verizon without a billing issue (I am 100% billing error on changes (4 of them)) since I moved over.

In fact Verizon's horrid cellular billing caused me to move family from postpaid to prepaid and onto GSM, and I will NEVER go back.

TWC systems were very nice. Order the 2 play package. Do you want a STB, DVR, or CableCard? Do you want to rent a modem or do you have your own? And it calculates the simple math correctly! You pick an install date w/ grid and 3 hour window. Install dates are only a few days out.

Verizon USED to be consumer friendly in FiOS, now the customer is simply a vessel to be upsold and riddled w/ below the line fees and unwanted packages. Sounds very Comcastic to me...

Depending upon the state
wmcfan
join:2015-03-15

wmcfan to Acc708

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said by Acc708:

There was no violation. He was welcome to add a cablecard, but he was not permitted to get the package price without the stb as it was part of the deal.

Actually this is what the rep said when I asked him how I can *add* a CableCARD to the two STBs I was including in the double play deal: "I apologize, but Verizon no longer support CableCARD as their equipment option through them. It would be mandatory for you to select 2 (he later corrected himself to say 3) set top boxes for your 3 TV's." I never asked him about ordering a package without a STB.

obeythelaw
Premium Member
join:2003-04-16
Warren, NJ

obeythelaw to wmcfan

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to wmcfan
What stinks is that now that the Federal Government and FCC will no longer require companies like Fios to offer the cablecard I feel that TiVo is some trouble and the whole cable card industry.

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

Thinkdiff

MVM,

CableCARD is still required, AFAIK. The recent change was that the providers' own boxes no longer need to use CableCARD. Currently, there's a CableCARD in every Verizon STB (except the IP-STBs, obviously).
dfwguy
join:2013-10-24

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said by Acc708:

There was no violation. He was welcome to add a cablecard, but he was not permitted to get the package price without the stb as it was part of the deal.

That is a violation. Cable providers are not permitted to require the use of their own equipment in bundles or anything else. They can offer a bundle with hardware, but must also make the same thing available with a CableCard and provide a discount for customer-owned equipment on top of it. And for these purposes Verizon is a cable provider.
nowayout
join:2009-06-22
Allentown, PA

3 edits

1 recommendation

nowayout to obeythelaw

Member

to obeythelaw
said by obeythelaw:

What stinks is that now that the Federal Government and FCC will no longer require companies like Fios to offer the cablecard I feel that TiVo is some trouble and the whole cable card industry.

Cablecards are still required. Verizon's just being dumb to make people jump through hoops. In the meantime, the industry is hashing out a downloadable security standard this year to replace cablecards, and everybody will likely have to follow the new rules, including satellite and fiber.

On the contrary, the replacement may be a boon to the 3rd party STB industry. TV manufacturers are in the discussions as well. They could potentially build the security mechanism into the set and not require a box.

The DSTAC group:

»www.fcc.gov/dstac

Acc708
join:2008-06-28

Acc708 to dfwguy

Member

to dfwguy
said by dfwguy:

They can offer a bundle with hardware, but must also make the same thing available with a CableCard and provide a discount for customer-owned equipment on top of it.

Can you show me where that is in writing?
fcfc2
join:2014-05-17

fcfc2

Member

said by Acc708:

Can you show me where that is in writing?

I think this is great advice, now why don't you take it yourself and give us some quotes from the actual customer contract to back up your unsubstantiated claims.
nowayout
join:2009-06-22
Allentown, PA

2 edits

nowayout to Acc708

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to Acc708
CableCARD: Know Your Rights

»www.fcc.gov/guides/cable ··· r-rights

Pay only for equipment you have. Your operator must give you a discount on any packages that include the price of a set-top box if you choose to use your own CableCARD-enabled device. FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(5).

If anybody feels like Verizon is giving them the run-around on the cablecard issue, file a complaint on the provided webpage. Complaints are frequently resolved, and Verizon should be made aware as much as possible of the limitation of their ordering process.

Acc708
join:2008-06-28

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Thanks nowayout. I would love to have been able to direct the sub toward that link.
Acc708

Acc708 to fcfc2

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said by fcfc2:

I think this is great advice, now why don't you take it yourself and give us some quotes from the actual customer contract to back up your unsubstantiated claims.

There is nothing to substantiate. I did the install as per the subs request without a stb, and was called later in the day to advise that I needed to activate the stb in order for the sub to get the quoted price, otherwise the deal would not be honored. Whether you believe that or not is strictly up to you, but telling someone to do something and it blows up in their face is not what I recommend.
fcfc2
join:2014-05-17

1 edit

fcfc2

Member

said by Acc708:

There is nothing to substantiate.

Hi,
Just to be clear, I am not saying that you are lying or misrepresenting something which you were told by your supervisor, or even that someone in the chain of command at Verizon might have told your Supervisor that same information. But in making such a "claim" if you will, that my advice was "bad" and would result, in fact, in voiding the contract with the customer resulting in the customer unknowingly suffering a much greater financial burden.
My point was that you requested "written" evidence based on your understanding of current FCC regulations regarding the use of "cablecards". I in turn, requested the language in the customer contact which would cover and verify your claim. In other words, is there language in the customer contract, which states that the use of a cablecard device in place of a Verizon STB in some way voids the contract or results in a denial of any discounts or promotions, which is, in fact, a voiding of the contract.
I know you don't have that because it isn't there, at least, in any language which would be recognizable a reasonable man. Verizon is not stupid enough to put something in writing which is a clear violation of the FCC statute. The problem is that time and again, Verizon customers have been told things as factual by CSR's including the "chat" folks, which is blatantly false such as
said by wmcfan:

But I just had a Chat session with a Verizon rep on the order process and he says CableCARDs are not available through Verizon.

I do not doubt that most of these representatives probably believe what they are told but someone higher up is passing the "kool-aid" on with a purpose in mind. The purpose I believe is fairly transparent, Verizon makes a lot more profit from renting their equipment than from renting a cablecard.
By the way, I have dealt with 3 Verizon installers and several store representatives, and had nothing but positive interactions but I have also dealt with phone and chat reps who were both ignorant and apparently been drinking "kool-aid" from day one.
Also, I would not try to use the FCC site to argue with anyone at Verizon, unless you want to get labeled as a "troublemaker" or "PITA".

Acc708
join:2008-06-28

Acc708

Member

It's all good.