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IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
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join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

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Electronic dog containment systems

I'm wondering if I should consider installing an electronic dog containment system in the backyard so the dog could run and play. No cutting through concrete or anything, just run the wire through an existing hole and into the soil.

Dog is a 10 year old Alaskan Malamute. It would be in the backyard.

Has anyone had any luck with these.
Hellrazor
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join:2002-02-02
Abyss, PA

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Hellrazor

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How stubborn is your dog? Neighbor had 2 blue trick/beagle mix and they would just run through the fence and take the hit.

Pher9999
join:2011-07-06
Saucier, MS

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it is based on the dog. Ours was scared of any white flags after the first "test" shock so thy learn it happens. Our system stopped working but the dog never went near the edge of the yard.

keyboard5684
Sam
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I am not sure I would feel good about making my dog fearful of walking around.
A normal fence is expensive and more difficult, I get that.

Reminds me of an old boss I had, ruled with fear.
The guy is now misreable and alone, he was sort of like a dog.

Pher9999
join:2011-07-06
Saucier, MS

Pher9999

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This dog was scared of the cat too. who would stand int he door way to mess with the dog. He was a big softy of a dog.

John97
Over The Hills And Far Away
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said by keyboard5684:

Reminds me of an old boss I had, ruled with fear.
The guy is now misreable and alone, he was sort of like a dog.

I worked for someone like that too. He ended up the same way.

I don't trust those fence systems. I've seen too many dogs go through it, then they don't want to take another hit so they won't come back into the yard...

garys_2k
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Farmington, MI

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we have one and it works, the dogs won't go through. But the fur on our dogs is relatively easy for the contacts to get through, some really hairy dogs don't make good contact and aren't reliably zapped.

As for fear, the dogs do not fear going outside or running around, they just stay clear of the edges.
b_p_smith
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Merrickville, ON

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I've never used one, but I know a few who have. From what I've been told, they're effective more often than not, and I think worth a shot. The theory is that you use the flags, and the dog learns to fear the flags. Eventually, you don't even need power to the system. I know at least one person who trained his dog at home, and could then go camping and just poke some of the flags around the trailer and presto.

However, from what I've heard this works best on young dogs, and the success rate goes down with older dogs (something about you can't teach an old dog new tricks, or something).

However, make sure you ground the control box properly. One guy I know took a lightning hit on his property that ended up following the buried antenna back into his garage, where the controller burst into flames. Luckily he was home at the time and noticed it quickly. It could have been a disaster.

Brad.

mityfowl
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My one friend with that system had 2 dogs. 1 a giant tough smart dobie the other a mutt rescue dog.

The big tough smart dog obeyed the wire the mutt, lover that she was would just take the hit, go through the wire and yelp time after time. Sort of funny to watch.

fphall
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The whole idea is to keep your dog safe and secure. An electronic fence will not protect your dog from other animals/preditors... a REAL fence will.
Hellrazor
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BTW - I put up a 5' chainlink fence when I was weighing options. I have a field trial ESS and she has no fear when in "hunting mode". I had the option of 4' vs 5' and I am glad I went with 5'. She can easily jump a 4' fence.

It was a $5000+ investment but I have around 1/4 an acre fenced in.

cowboyro
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I have a PetSafe inground fence. Dog learned the deal in less than 1hr. Only ran through once at the beginning when it was set with a too narrow boundary. After that he figured that crossing is a bad idea. The shock of the collar is adjustable and also gives a warning sound when the dog gets close to the fence, so it's not an instant shock.

Camelot One
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Bloomington, IN

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Electronic fences are only as effective as the training you provide, and even then, they aren't perfect.

We had one a few years ago, and 80% of the time it worked great. But if the dog (120lb lab) saw another animal or something he wanted to chase, he was willing to take the shock as he sprinted out of the yard. But then the e-fence would prevent him from coming back into the yard, so I would have to retrieve him from a neighbor.

They are better than nothing, but I would never trust one to get the job done.
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

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Same i wouldn't trust them to work. I trained our mini pin who had a bad habit of running out in to the street after running out the door by leading her around the yard and when she tried to go out of it getting her with the end of the leash. After she stopped wanting to run out of the yard at that stage i would deliberately walk her out with out saying any thing and would again give her a swat not hard mind you. I would do this in 15 minute sessions each time i took her out to use the bathroom. Did this for a few days strait. Eventually you would simply dig in hard and refuse to go out. Now being that i did want to be able to take her for walks on the road i added a next stage. At that point i used a long leash that would reach the middle of the road. And would use the same commands i did in the yard with her heal come stay etc. After a bit of coaxing i got her to come to me at the road edge with the heal command or come. Once she did that i rewarded her. Then back through the yard re enforcing her refusal to come out when i did not tell her come or heal. And the leash end negative re-enforcement when she did. After about 2 weeks of this i had a dog that i could let out with out fear of her becoming a mini pin brown and tan and red road pancake that i could also take for walks where ever and when ever i wanted.

I never give treats for obedience or safety behavior. Tricks get treats the rest gets praise only. Positive re enforcement is not enough with most dogs negative is also needed.

I laughed very hard at her one day when she decided to chase a squirrel that ran out in to the road. She slammed on the breaks 5 feet from the road and tumbled. Two days later the same squirrel met his end in her teeth her revenge for embarrassing her i suppose. The squirrel had a half a tail from a car hitting it so i knew it was him that she got.
joewho
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I'm a handler and obedience trainer. Not Cesar Milan, but enough to show our spayed, 85lb., female lab the boundaries of the yard and not to cross them. Have worked with a Vizsla that would cross the electronic fence and take the hit. Even with the power turned all the way up. To me, that's abuse. She learned that the front yard is not powered and was able to get her back that way. Most of the time, she wouldn't cross it.

My experience is that the white flags show boundaries, that you could do without any fence at all. It's just a lot of work. It's the pavlov thing, with the shock, but no reward.

My contribution to this thread is to advise exercise and socialization. Dogs need to socialize with other dogs and get walked. If you have a dog that will cross the e-fence, doing those two things will help a lot.
Expand your moderator at work
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Re: Electronic dog containment systems

A true e-fence sends a "rattle" to the collar as the dog approaches the boundary. After a certain point, it gets a shock. 10 yr. old Malamute? Is this your mom's dog? DIY e-fence is possible, but to do it correctly, you'd have to do just as much work as putting the dog on a leash and walking it around the yard to show it the boundaries. The dog is a senior citizen at this point, e-fence probably is not necessary at this point.

mjmack
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We have one for our lab, she got shocked twice during the training and never again, that was ten year ago. I don't even replace the batteries in the collar anymore. She has the freedom to run around the whole yard and is not scared of it, she knows where the lines are and she doesn't cross them.

She will pull up from chasing a rabbit or squirrel, won't fetch the ball if it goes over the line. I love it and I think that she enjoys the freedom as well.
joewho
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Dundee, IL

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MJ, our lab is just the same. No e-fence or physical fence. Just saying, you get out of the dog, what you put into it. Especially Labs.
rody_44
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Wired is kind of old school. Most people around here use wireless systems now. A little more money but well worth the difference. »www.havahartwireless.com ··· og-fence Plus if the dog runs thru it and uh, u know. You can resell it and recoup the money.
ImpetusEra
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I'm not sure I'd subject the dog to that at its age, it's probably not into running and playing for any length of time anyway. I put one in when mine was a puppy and followed the training guide and after two tosses of a bone over the line he knew where to turn back when the collar gave a warning tone and vibration. Didn't take long for him to learn the flags were the boundary and he'd always stay a good 3 feet away from them. If you want to just put it outside to be out of your way then get a 30' cable run. If it needs exercise then walk it. I've been taking mine snowshoeing for 4 miles through the woods after work.

IowaCowboy
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The dog is still pretty active, hates other dogs but loves people. Considering he hates other dogs is the reason I'd put the system in the back yard.

Too many people walk their dogs in front of the front yard. I walk him half mile each way to the de facto dog park every day.
DoctorStinky
join:2011-11-10
Brunswick, ME

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We have the PetSafe wireless containment system. It works very well, and we appreciate its ability to allow us to adjust the size of the containment area. We also have a vacation home and bring the transmitter and collar with us when we stay there.

We never bothered with the flags. We just set the radius of the containment area to align with natural boundaries on our property. Our dog quickly learned how far she could go. The collar gives plenty of warning before administering a mild shock, and it's been many months since our dog tested its limits.

The only ongoing expense is batteries for the collar; they're not a standard size but there are 3rd party options that are a lot cheaper.

I've only had one issue with the collar. It started beeping as I passed by our local "executive airport" on my way home from our other place. Our dog was with me but wasn't wearing the collar at the time; she could still hear it, though, and freaked out. I felt so bad for her . . . It wouldn't stop, and I had to pull over and remove the battery from the collar to get the dog to calm down.

I'm thinking the radar or other aviation-related EMF somehow triggered the collar. It's never happened before. Aside from that, the system has worked flawlessly.
H_T_R_N (banned)
join:2011-12-06
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I have one for my beast and it has worked well. He had a leg up as he was trained as a gun detection dog for the police force, so training was something he was accustom to doing. We have about 3/4 af a acre boundary out of the 1+ acre yard we have, and it has worked perfectly. The collar has a vibration when he gets within 15 feet, a high tone at 10, and an increasing pulse shock after that. After about 2 months of having the white flags up he doesn't even go near the border. He is a ball chaser and sometimes the ball with go over the line and you can hear him growl at it as he comes to a screeching halt. All manner of animal come through the yard and he has not crossed it, in the 7 years we have had it in. We don't even put the collar on anymore. A benefit of training the dog to stay away from white flags is that you can use them in the house. If you have a counter surfer you can position some of the flags in a manner that keeps him away from the counter, even if that means running a temp wire across the floor for a zap or two. I believe that it is the dog that will determine how well an electronic fence will work. It also helps if he is not the alpha dog in the house, makes training much easier. That said, 10 years old is pretty old for a new training regimen. Whatever you do keep him safe! He will thank you for it.

Edit: I would not trust the wireless system, if for whatever reason it malfunctioned there is a possibility that the diameter could shrink to a point that could really confuse him and you might never know why. With the wire in the ground it might fail but you know it will never fluctuate.
H_T_R_N

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said by keyboard5684:

I am not sure I would feel good about making my dog fearful of walking around.
A normal fence is expensive and more difficult, I get that.

It has nothing to do with fear. I am sure you don't permit your dog on the kitchen counter, jump on people or to evacuate on the living room floor. Just as he has learned to behave in the house, he learns to stay in the area he has learned is safe. Dogs, and most animals including humans learn behaviours the same way, pain and pleasure, pure and simple. If you smash your face into the door enough times you will learn to slow down and be sure you turned the handle far enough to allow it to open before attempting to go through it. A couple minutes of discomfort in trade for not having him run away or killed is a fair price to pay. I know its not covered in a masters thesis or scientific journal anywhere but even after my dog got zapped a few times he still crawled up in my lap while watching TV, so I don't think he is that mad at me.
Or is that his revenge, he does weigh 90+ pounds! Again I really believe it comes down to the dog and the dynamic it has with his human counterpart. If he is the alpha dog in the pack no amount of training will help.

garys_2k
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said by H_T_R_N:

If he is the alpha dog in the pack no amount of training will help.

EXACTLY, and remember that to the dog, the "pack" includes all of the people. Many people are not the alpha in their pack and let the dog(s) have their way. People should eat before their dogs do, require that the dogs do a trick before feeding them, insist that they get to go through doorways, walk on stairways, or through any narrow passage before the dogs, etc. That's the first step to any well behaved dog.

ptrowski
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I installed the PetSafe DIY systems with one of our last dogs, bought the flags, etc. I did "upgrade" the collar from the standard one that came with it to the one for "stubborn" dogs that used a 9 volt battery. With training, etc it worked well until one day a motorcycle went by and he blew right through it. Then twice with people walking their dogs he went through. So it all depends on the dog and the training.
For a Malamute though you may consider something more substantial.

bmetelsky
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Do you have adjoining neighbors to your back yard?
If I was a neighbor and saw your dog in the back yard with no real fence, then I might have a problem with that. As mentioned by some others in the post, the solution that you are asking about seems to work inconsistently.

Inspector
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One thing you may consider is are there many busy streets in the area? If so, how does your dog respond to traffic in case he was to go through the fence? I've considered these fences, but our small dog loves to chase squirrels chipmunks, etc. and my fear is he would be so intent on chasing it, that he would "forget" and go right through any fence. My dog is not so street smart and we have some busy streets near us. We went the "old fashion" way with a standard fence.
Good luck.

vircotto
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A friend has an electronic fence and a large back yard that backs to some forested area. (They tend to spoil their pets. If I was reincarnated as a dog, I'd want to live with them!)
•The husky quickly learned and respects the boundary (flags are long gone) even without the collar.
•The coonhound will sometimes bolt through (and take the hit) if it sees something it wants (like a squirrel or another dog) on the other side.
•The puggle knows if the collar is off, he's free to wander off. But will still occasionally bolt with the collar on and take the hit if it wants to visit a favorite neighbor or sees someone/something it wants to get to.