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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
·Verizon FiOS
Ubiquiti NSM5
Synology RT2600ac
Apple AirPort Extreme (2013)

TamaraB

Premium Member

Apple Pay

Question: My Chase card just got updated. Only the expiration data and the secret code changed. I originally input the card by photographing it.

There are no fields for Date or the Code. Perhaps nothing has to be done? Do I need to delete the card and re-enter the "new" one for this to continue working?

haroldo
join:2004-01-16
USA

haroldo

Member

I think that's what you should do.
Your old card is now null and void, so the virtual card in your phone is, similarly, useless.

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx

TamaraB

Premium Member

Thanks!

haroldo
join:2004-01-16
USA

haroldo

Member

Guessing that down the road, at expiration a future iteration of Apple Pay will detect expired cards and prompt you to update or replace card.
Since you didn't mention that the app did this happened (did it?), this sets up a dangerous situation where someone leaves cards home relying on Apple Pay, only to find out that the cards don't work.

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
·Verizon FiOS
Ubiquiti NSM5
Synology RT2600ac
Apple AirPort Extreme (2013)

TamaraB

Premium Member

No. I got no indication from the app. Auto-Pay vendors, like Netflix warned about pending expiry, but nothing from the ApplePay system.

Deleted the card, photo'ed the new one and it activated and verified like an entirely new card. Guess that was the only way to do it.

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

Thinkdiff to haroldo

MVM,

to haroldo
said by haroldo:

I think that's what you should do.
Your old card is now null and void, so the virtual card in your phone is, similarly, useless.

This is generally not true.
said by »www.americanexpress.com/ ··· aqs.html :
If I receive a replacement Card, do I need to update my Card information with Apple Pay?

No. Your Device Account Number is connected to your new Card number automatically. You can use your Card in Apple Pay to make transactions before receiving your new plastic Card.
That's from American Express, but I'm pretty sure it's a requirement of banks that join Apple Pay to support that feature. It was mentioned during the keynote.

Apple Pay is effectively another card linked to the same account, it is not tied directly to the original card - you just use it as a way of identifying the account to link Apple Pay to.

haroldo
join:2004-01-16
USA

haroldo

Member

A replacement for a valid card (typically if the magnetic strip is worn or the numbers are hard to read) will be identical to the original (same expiration and security code)
A replacement for an expired card is not the same, you get a new expiration date and security code.
The security numbers change...that's the whole point of an expiration date, it forces change. Without it, a rogue operating below the radar can have a lifetime of fraudulent purchases
Daemon
Premium Member
join:2003-06-29
Washington, DC

Daemon

Premium Member

said by haroldo:

A replacement for a valid card (typically if the magnetic strip is worn or the numbers are hard to read) will be identical to the original (same expiration and security code)
A replacement for an expired card is not the same, you get a new expiration date and security code.
The security numbers change...that's the whole point of an expiration date, it forces change. Without it, a rogue operating below the radar can have a lifetime of fraudulent purchases

The device account number (DAN) is unique to the device, so the security provided by the expiration date is not required except for confirming the card when it's first entered.

It's not like the DAN is linked to a card that has a specific date on it. The card is photographed and input to look up the account information, after which the DAN is generated and stored as linked to the account. You can think of the DAN on the phone as a separate "card".

For most issuers, the expiration date changes predictably. If I have your credit card information and I know it's expiring, I can easily determine what the expiration date on your new card will be and continue using it. These days, the expiration date is more akin to a 4 digit PIN than anything else.

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
·Verizon FiOS
Ubiquiti NSM5
Synology RT2600ac
Apple AirPort Extreme (2013)

TamaraB

Premium Member

said by Daemon:

.... the DAN is generated and stored as linked to the account. You can think of the DAN on the phone as a separate "card".

So this DAN is a unique number permanently burned into the iPhone/Pad itself? Like the MAC address?
Jeremy W
join:2010-01-21

Jeremy W

Member

said by TamaraB:

said by Daemon:

.... the DAN is generated and stored as linked to the account. You can think of the DAN on the phone as a separate "card".

So this DAN is a unique number permanently burned into the iPhone/Pad itself? Like the MAC address?

No, the DAN is assigned by the card issuer when the card is added to the phone. The last four digits of your physical card are just there for your information, the "card" in Apple Pay is essentially a completely separate "card" that is tied to your account. Expiration dates and CVC codes are irrelevant.

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
·Verizon FiOS
Ubiquiti NSM5
Synology RT2600ac
Apple AirPort Extreme (2013)

TamaraB

Premium Member

said by Jeremy W:

No, the DAN is assigned by the card issuer when the card is added to the phone. [...] Expiration dates and CVC codes are irrelevant.

Hmmmm.... so anyone finessing this magic number from the phone (like a rogue app) has control over the bank account? How is this more secure than a physical plastic card? Or is it?
Jeremy W
join:2010-01-21

1 recommendation

Jeremy W

Member

said by TamaraB:

Hmmmm.... so anyone finessing this magic number from the phone (like a rogue app) has control over the bank account?

No, not even close. First of all, the info for Apple Pay is stored in a physically separate part of the phone called the Secure Enclave. The OS doesn't even have the ability to read the info in there. But even if you could somehow get the DAN, there's nothing you could do with it. A separate security code, which changes for every transaction, is also required along with the DAN. You can read about the whole process starting on page 27 of this PDF: »www.apple.com/business/d ··· uide.pdf
said by TamaraB:

How is this more secure than a physical plastic card? Or is it?

All I need to steal your physical card is a look at the front and back, or a skim of the magstripe which never changes. But with Apple Pay, even if you captured the NFC data exchange between the phone and the credit card terminal, it would be entirely useless.

Astyanax
Premium Member
join:2002-11-14
Melbourne, FL
·AT&T FTTP

Astyanax to TamaraB

Premium Member

to TamaraB
Getting back to the OP's question, when your card expires do you have to do anything or do you have to re-enter the new card into the phone? I'm reading conflicting answers in this thread.

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

Thinkdiff

MVM,

You do not. The Apple Pay virtual "card" is not linked directly to your original physical credit card. It's linked to your credit card account.