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pnjunction
Teksavvy Extreme
Premium Member
join:2008-01-24
Toronto, ON

pnjunction to Savious

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to Savious

Re: Diablo 3 Season 3 Begins April 10th!

As someone who ground for hundreds of hours and never saw a Torch for my S2 monk, or very many useful ancient pieces...I disagree that gear is easy enough to get that it is irrelevant.

I look at the top builds now and they are increasingly using not only 6-set but other even rarer items, like the aforementioned Torch. A few hundred thousand shards to gamble and that problem is gone (maybe that's a good thing, taking my shit luck out of the equation, but that's a separate debate). I look at wiz and they are not just using 6-set but things like Focus and Restraint set rings (11k a piece, good luck with ring rolls) and another specific weapon, Grand Vizier (36k, which I got a lovely level 65 version of , 72k Furnace would probably also be OK). To get ancients you're into 10x those average numbers...

If we want to compete on skill then just give us the damn gear but that is half the fun (until it is no fun at all which is why I don't play much anymore). I can understand why some people, maybe folk who joined me in the P500+ no-Torch club last season, would use this exploit even though I wouldn't do it myself. For the integrity of the game as Blizzard intends it (which does include a huge amount of luck) I agree the exploit should be shut down or punished.

Paradoxically the same luck element that made me quit is the same thing that kept me playing for so long, the game would be boring if you just got handed top gear and skipped right to getting one-shotted at GR50+. How to keep people hooked into a game for a long time without capping or getting frustrated is a complicated topic.

Savious
Premium Member
join:2012-03-05
Billings, MT

Savious

Premium Member

said by pnjunction:

As someone who ground for hundreds of hours and never saw a Torch for my S2 monk, or very many useful ancient pieces...I disagree that gear is easy enough to get that it is irrelevant.

I look at the top builds now and they are increasingly using not only 6-set but other even rarer items, like the aforementioned Torch. A few hundred thousand shards to gamble and that problem is gone (maybe that's a good thing, taking my shit luck out of the equation, but that's a separate debate). I look at wiz and they are not just using 6-set but things like Focus and Restraint set rings (11k a piece, good luck with ring rolls) and another specific weapon, Grand Vizier (36k, which I got a lovely level 65 version of , 72k Furnace would probably also be OK). To get ancients you're into 10x those average numbers...

If we want to compete on skill then just give us the damn gear but that is half the fun (until it is no fun at all which is why I don't play much anymore). I can understand why some people, maybe folk who joined me in the P500+ no-Torch club last season, would use this exploit even though I wouldn't do it myself. For the integrity of the game as Blizzard intends it (which does include a huge amount of luck) I agree the exploit should be shut down or punished.

Paradoxically the same luck element that made me quit is the same thing that kept me playing for so long, the game would be boring if you just got handed top gear and skipped right to getting one-shotted at GR50+. How to keep people hooked into a game for a long time without capping or getting frustrated is a complicated topic.

You're 100% right. My point was that its easy to get gear to be powerful, but to really be dominant you have to have luck on your side.

But also, being high paragon is important as well, and you dont get that by farming bloodshards.

Just being level 400 is equivalent to an 8 stat legendary. 25% movement speed, 250 main stat, 5% crit, 50% chd, 250 all resist etc....

pnjunction
Teksavvy Extreme
Premium Member
join:2008-01-24
Toronto, ON

1 recommendation

pnjunction

Premium Member

Yeah paragon levels are pretty important but getting to P400 would go much faster if I had top gear to blast GR30-35s instead of grinding T5 with my badly rolled 6pc and working my way up.

Savious
Premium Member
join:2012-03-05
Billings, MT

Savious

Premium Member

The storm has subsided:

"The live and upcoming hotfixes lists have been updated:

[UPCOMING HOTFIXES]

Items
Fixing an issue where some players are not able to access their BlizzCon 2014 transmogrification appearances
Fixing an issue where stash tabs purchased during a Season are not rolling over to your non-Seasonal stash once the Season ends

[LIVE HOTFIXES]

Monsters
Fixed an issue where the Gelatinous Sire would occasionally fail to split (4/16)
Fixed a bug which caused Blood Thief goblins in multiplayer games to drop more Blood Shards than intended (4/16)

Bounties
The "Wortham Survivors" bounty has been disabled (4/16)
This bounty cannot always be completed and we will be addressing this issue in a later patch"

Noiche
Premium Member
join:2013-06-17
Apo, AP

Noiche to Savious

Premium Member

to Savious
Listen now, if you want to dress up like a Thai ladyboy, then we can talk. However, I'm not game for the regular ladyboys out there.

Arch, I definitely do not understand your logic at all. Saying your done cause of people we've never ever met (outside for a small fraction of our guild that can be dealt with accordingly) is just crazy. Play with us and only us. Be part of the solution and how we deal with our own guild mates as well. I'd prefer to keep that decision among those of us here.

However, I respect your decision, no matter how crazy it seems to me. And no, if you quit, I'm not and many others here won't either. We'll still grind it out our own way and have stupid amounts of fun while doing it.

I do ask you to consider this. There isn't a game out there that hasn't been hacked or exploited. Using your logic, you might as well not play anything at all. Just saying.

Cya in game hopefully.

Koil
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
Irmo, SC

Koil to Savious

Premium Member

to Savious
Mad fucking props to Jobbie and Block for the crazy PL session. Went from level 18 to 70/20 last night, got some awesome loot and had a fucking blast.

Thanks guys!

Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium Member
join:2010-08-24
Mexico

Jobbie

Premium Member

It was awesome to play again with you my friend we got you and Deremus up for some fun times over the weekend.

I just went to to Torment 3, I will grind all the weekend to hopefully reach Torment 6 next week.

Meningitis
Hi
Premium Member
join:2009-03-06
Places

Meningitis

Premium Member

I'll be on this weekend a lot. We can get you geared this weekend.

Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium Member
join:2010-08-24
Mexico

Jobbie

Premium Member

said by Meningitis:

I'll be on this weekend a lot. We can get you geared this weekend.

Sounds like a plan.

I want to be like Koil last night "WTFISDISSHIT" when he died to those bullshit moltenwallerfirechainsjailermortar packs.

Savious
Premium Member
join:2012-03-05
Billings, MT

Savious

Premium Member

Frozen Jailer Reflect Thunderstorm

Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium Member
join:2010-08-24
Mexico

Jobbie

Premium Member

I counted at least 5 "wtfs" and like 10 "lols" from lvl 20 to around 45. We had a lot of fun.

Savious
Premium Member
join:2012-03-05
Billings, MT

Savious

Premium Member

You need to learn him how to talk in GChat. I was trying to talk shit to him last night but its not any fun if the perosn isnt paying attention.
Savious

Savious to Meningitis

Premium Member

to Meningitis
said by Meningitis:

I'll be on this weekend a lot. We can get you geared this weekend.

Can you please run Archon? I think it would increase our kill speed.

TheBionic
Funkier than a mohair disco ball.
Premium Member
join:2009-07-06
united state

TheBionic to Savious

Premium Member

to Savious
Grabbed Reaper of Souls last night and reinstalled D3. I haven't played since a few months after launch so I need to get reacquainted with the game. All your jargon sounds like jibberish to my noobtacular ears but I'm looking forward to jumping back in.

I will be dividing my time between this and another game this weekend so I will be pretty casual but I'm thinking of trying out the Crusader.

Meningitis
Hi
Premium Member
join:2009-03-06
Places

Meningitis to Savious

Premium Member

to Savious
said by Savious:

Can you please run Archon? I think it would increase our kill speed.

I would love to!

Raptor
Not a Dumptruck
join:2001-10-21
London, ON

Raptor to Koil

Member

to Koil
said by Koil:

Went from level 18 to 70/20 last night, got some awesome loot and had a fucking blast.

You guys were so proud when you were finally able to 2 man pop all cooldowns-burst down a single skeleton.

Koil
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
Irmo, SC

Koil

Premium Member

said by Raptor:

said by Koil:

Went from level 18 to 70/20 last night, got some awesome loot and had a fucking blast.

You guys were so proud when you were finally able to 2 man pop all cooldowns-burst down a single skeleton.

Hey...Don't forget that barrel we fucked up. He won't be mouthing off again anytime soon.

And it was to 70/40, not 70/20...Block and I did some rift runs too...shit was fun. I have to give credit, Blizz really turned this around.

Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium Member
join:2010-08-24
Mexico

Jobbie

Premium Member

said by Koil:

Hey...Don't forget that barrel we fucked up. He won't be mouthing off again anytime soon.

That was awesome.

Raptor
Not a Dumptruck
join:2001-10-21
London, ON

Raptor to Koil

Member

to Koil
You're now ahead of me then, I logged shortly after hitting 70 myself, might have hit P5. So undergeared. We noob 70s need to rift.

Savious
Premium Member
join:2012-03-05
Billings, MT

Savious

Premium Member

Heres a quick video thats both funny and informative regarding getting a Hellfire Amulet.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· zuenmcuo

Exodus
Your Daddy
Premium Member
join:2001-11-26
Earth

Exodus to Savious

Premium Member

to Savious
Antonica and I got our 6 piece at the exact time.

Savious
Premium Member
join:2012-03-05
Billings, MT

Savious

Premium Member

said by Exodus:

Antonica and I got our 6 piece at the exact time.

Which set did she get?

Exodus
Your Daddy
Premium Member
join:2001-11-26
Earth

Exodus

Premium Member

Magnum Opus

Fiftycal
Rocketeer
join:2010-06-04
El Paso, TX

Fiftycal to Exodus

Member

to Exodus
Bitchfest inc:
I played for a good 4 hours yesterday and got my set amulet which put me at 4 pieces. I'm getting pretty frustrated with loot drops. I have 4 pieces of the Firebird set (some of them double, triple) in my stash yet I can't get my belt or pants for Tal Rasha's.

Missing:
Both rings
1 Hand weap
Shoulders
Waist
Legs

TL;DR I need more gear

Savious, Once I get sufficient gear I'd like to get with you to maximize my character's build/rolls. As for right now I'm going Tal Rasha's set, Sparker weap, Tornado pull wrists. If you think I should change anything with the gear I have let me know.

Savious
Premium Member
join:2012-03-05
Billings, MT

Savious

Premium Member

Thats the current "best" build. Considering that you have both Sparker and the bracers, and I have found neither, I wouldnt be to frustrated, haha.

Jaetch, the bnet Wizard forum MVP, has a build guide thats really in depth and helpful.

If you are going just Tals, and not 6 Tal/4 DMO, I would recommend putting the FB shoulders+whatever on, as the 2nd cheat death is very handy. Half the time Unstable Anamoly does nothing, as it doesnt save you at all against ground effects like poison and stuff. A few times last night I would die, then die again all in half a second. What a great cheat death passive!

All the other classes cheat death gives them some form of immunity or serious mitigation, but the Wizard.. well fuck the Wizard.

The most important thing about Tals is proper rotation of your skills to max your damage. Keep the buff up as long as possible and keep your hydras as far away from their targets as possible, as Zeis increases damage for hydras based on hydras distance, not your.
Savious

Savious to Exodus

Premium Member

to Exodus
said by Exodus:

Magnum Opus

But thats cornering her into using Slow Time and Arcane Orb/Energy Twister. Better turn it into Forgotten Souls.

Fiftycal
Rocketeer
join:2010-06-04
El Paso, TX

Fiftycal to Savious

Member

to Savious
said by Savious:

Thats the current "best" build. Considering that you have both Sparker and the bracers, and I have found neither, I wouldnt be to frustrated, haha.

I got a shit Sparker a few days ago, I knew it was part of the gear I needed but didn't realize that's what gave me the extra Hydra (it is the sparker that gives an extra hydra right?). I can't remember if I salvaged it or threw it in my stash. Would the damage from the extra Hydra be more efficient with it's crap stats or should I keep the ancient I have equipped.

Savious
Premium Member
join:2012-03-05
Billings, MT

Savious

Premium Member

Depends on your set up. If you have hydra damage on chest and shoulders, and your ancient isnt super godly (like 4000 DPS), then SS is supposedly the best behind a an Ancient SS.

Noiche
Premium Member
join:2013-06-17
Apo, AP

Noiche to Savious

Premium Member

to Savious
I'll be off in about 5-6 hours and ready to run hard. Got to get those lvls ticking!

Savious
Premium Member
join:2012-03-05
Billings, MT

Savious to Fiftycal

Premium Member

to Fiftycal
Heres a quote from a reddit post regarding rotation optimization with Focus and Restraint.

I've been doing some theorycraft on this setup, and wanted to share it with the community, so it can benefit other Wizards, and so that it can be peer reviewed.

TL;DR: If you're using the standard community build, switch to putting your Shock Pulse first in your sequence. If you're using an alternate build with Lightning Twister, put your Arcane Missile between your Twister and Blizzard.

Because you repeat it every 8sec, your ability sequence when running Focus+Restraint and Tal Rasha and Ranslor's Folly hugely matters, and the implications of your order are actually rather complex.
Lightning and Cold meteors do 740% Weapon Damage.
Fire meteor does 1648% Weapon Damage.
Arcane meteor does (740+20*ArcanePower)% Weapon Damage. Yes, really. Despite not actually consuming that AP, it still does additional damage based upon how much AP you have when it's triggered. Would love some testing from others to corroborate that, but that's what my testing showed.
Focus+Restraint apply separate 1.5x damage multipliers (2.25x with both).
Tal Rasha's applies a (1+Stacks*1.5)x damage multiplier (7x with 4 stacks).
The spells that apply F+R/Tal stacks do benefit from that stack. That's extremely significant.
Your Cold skill is assumed to be Blizzard.
Your Fire skill is assumed to be Hydra, but it could be some other fire spell if you prefer.
Most people in the community seem to use Shock Pulse - Piercing Orb for Lightning, but Electrocute (of any rune) is also viable, and even Energy Twister - Storm Chaser. Contrary to public perception, Wicked Wind is in no way mandatory.
Most people in the community seem to use Energy Twister - Wicked Wind for Arcane, but Magic Missile - Seeker / Charged is also quite viable.
Generally, you want to Blizzard either immediately following your Energy Twister, or at most 1 ability later.
Your Max AP and AP/sec matter. These calculations use my personal numbers for that, which happen to be 113 max, 8.75/sec. Results will be slightly different for your numbers, but I don't think the conclusions are likely to change.
Your Elemental School Damage matters. These calculations use no multiplier, but Fire and Arcane are about equally valuable. I don't think the conclusion would change, even if you had +60% of one and none of the other, but feel free to experiment.
This is all looking at only the direct damage of the meteors. The damage of the casted spells themselves are non-trivial, so I'd love to improve these calculations by including them, but that's a massive increase to complexity of this theorycraft, and I don't think it changes any conclusions, so haven't tried yet.

Given all of those considerations, here are results that I've found.

First, lets look at the standard build in the community:

A-Twist C-Blizz L-Shock F-Hydra

This drops an Arcane Meteor with a huge extra %WD component (2300% WD), however with a low multiplier (1.5x from Restraint, 2.5x from Tal), total of 8625% WD. Cold meteor next for 4440% WD. Shock puts up Focus, for a Lightning Meteor of 9158% WD. And then finally, the Fire meteor drops, with max multipliers, for a massive 25956% WD. Grand total: 48179% Weapon Damage

Next, lets compare to what I've been doing in the past few days:

L-Twist C-Blizz A-Missile F-Hydra

Just swap the Lightning and Arcane elements, basically. This results in pushing the weaker Lightning meteor earlier in the sequence, and the larger Arcane meteor later in the sequence. It's after the two expensive spells, so it's triggered with a much lower bonus from Arcane Power (total of 1850% WD), but with a much much higher multiplier (5.5x Tals, 1.5x Focus, 1.5x Restraint). Overall, it ends up being significantly superior, because of that. Grand total: 56065% Weapon Damage.

However, I proceeded to explore other sequences, and found a couple more that are even better:

L-Shock A-Twist C-Blizz F-Hydra

A simple reordering of the abilities in the standard community build yields a huge increase. The weaker Lightning meteor is pushed earlier in favor of later later Arcane and Cold. And, most importantly, it puts Focus up right away, so that the large Arcane meteor benefits from both F+R. Grand total: 58589% Weapon Damage (a 22% increase over the standard community order!)

L-Twist A-Miss C-Blizz F-Hydra

This is a reordering of what I had been running. It has the downside of having one ability between the Twist and Blizz, so mobs have more of a chance to escape, but it results in slightly (2.7%) more total damage. Grand total: 60164% Weapon Damage.

EDIT: L-Elec C-Snow F-Hydra A-Twist

All of the above had been assuming Blizzard - Frozen Solid, however some people suggested Blizzard - Snowbound. Saving 30 AP is a very big deal, obviously, if you can afford to give up the stun (perhaps due to being in a group with a ZDPS). This order is the best I could find, using Snowbound. It also happens to shift the damage into Arcane Meteor significantly, leading to you wanting to prioritize +Arcane damage. Grand total: 63692% Weapon Damage.

Finally, let's look again at the importance of those factors that are based on your character: Arcane Power and Elemental Multipliers. A larger Max AP actually has a very non-trivial impact on the total damage, due to it increasing the Arcane meteor's damage. For example, the Energy Armor rune that makes it +20MaxAP instead of -20MaxAP, is actually an 11% damage increase. That surprised me. Power Hungry may also be worth considering, crazily enough, being a total increase of 17% dmg, if you had 3 charges when you started the sequence (not realistic except in T6 farming, but interesting). Astral Presence, with its +20MaxAP, is also really solid. For Elemental damage, +Fire is the strongest, unless you have over 143 MaxAP, at which point Arcane starts winning. Either way, they're really close.

Here's a link to my spreadsheet where I've done these calculations: »docs.google.com/spreadsh ··· =sharing

TL;DR: If you're using the standard community build, switch to putting your Shock Pulse first in your sequence. If you're using an alternate build with Lightning Twister, put your Arcane Missile between your Twister and Blizzard.