 tobyTroy Mcclure
join:2001-11-13
Seattle, WA |
to Jim_in_VA
Re: Ethanol gas?said by Jim_in_VA:I guess the point is ..sure ethanol works just fine in small engines. But are maintenance cost higher using it? carb rebuilds ...etc Replacing fuel lines... etc.. If you can get E-free gasoline do it, even if it means a single 5 gallon can in your garage to garden equipment. » pure-gas.org/ |
actions · 2015-Apr-7 7:07 pm · (locked) |
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1 recommendation |
Re: Ethanol gas?said by Jack in VA:FYI my local dealer is a long time very successful John Deere/Stihl dealer who I would believe in a minute over your trash posted here. PSWired reiterated what Stihl stated. I wouldn't call that trash. |
actions · 2015-Apr-7 7:24 pm · (locked) |
rody_44
Premium Member
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA |
to Jim_in_VA
The problem being is that even 10 percent ethanol often becomes more when dealing with ethanol. I really only worry about it with two strokes tho. For my lawn mower and such i make sure i mix it up good when filling from gas cans and make sure i keep the gas can sealed closed. I put some gas in a glass jar one time and the next day i was like WTF. I couldnt believe how much of the gas and ethanol seperated. Can only imagine over time how much that can turn into with some peoples habits. |
actions · 2015-Apr-7 8:16 pm · (locked) |
fixrmanFrom a broken heart to a hole in the sky
Premium Member
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA  ·Verizon FiOS
1 recommendation |
fixrman
Premium Member
2015-Apr-7 9:57 pm
said by rody_44:The problem being is that even 10 percent ethanol often becomes more when dealing with ethanol. Say, what? said by rody_44:make sure i mix it up good when filling from gas cans and make sure i keep the gas can sealed closed. As opposed to being sealed open? Gas in a glass jar? Seriously? Nothing unsafe about that. If the "gas from the glass" separated in a day, it was already contaminated. It doesn't separate in a day. |
actions · 2015-Apr-7 9:57 pm · (locked) |
ncbill
Premium Member
join:2007-01-23
Winston Salem, NC |
to InvalidError
Not anymore - with modern emission systems that include O2 sensors (any production vehicle in the last 25 years) there's no need for "extra" oxygenation from ethanol. High-octane gasoline doesn't need ethanol - in fact, the closest ethanol-free gasoline to me is premium (93 octane). Gasoline doesn't freeze until below -40F, so there's no need for antifreeze in your gasoline - were you thinking of diesel? said by InvalidError:It also reduces emissions, boosts the octane value to prevent knocking in high-performance engines and acts as anti-freeze in cold climates.
Ethanol is a versatile additive with legit reasons to be there. |
actions · 2015-Apr-8 10:32 am · (locked) |
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to Jim_in_VA
One of the big benefits they tout is less dependence on foreign oil. It is true that it reduces our dependence on petroleum to make fuel. However there is the cost of farming corn and that also uses fossil fuel. Ethanol really only works in places like Brazil where they have an abundance of sugar cane which is much better for producing alcohol than corn. |
actions · 2015-Apr-8 11:10 am · (locked) |
 DarkLogixTexan and Proud
Premium Member
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX |
to Jim_in_VA
said by Jim_in_VA:the question is does ethanol added to gasoline gum up small engines ...politics aside It can dissolve some rubber and those rubber partials can gum up the engine. |
actions · 2015-Apr-8 12:06 pm · (locked) |
tobyTroy Mcclure
join:2001-11-13
Seattle, WA |
to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:One of the big benefits they tout is less dependence on foreign oil. It is true that it reduces our dependence on petroleum to make fuel. However there is the cost of farming corn and that also uses fossil fuel. Ethanol really only works in places like Brazil where they have an abundance of sugar cane which is much better for producing alcohol than corn. The US exports more oil than it imports. |
actions · 2015-Apr-8 6:31 pm · (locked) |
rody_44
Premium Member
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA |
to fixrman
Simple, It seperates from the gasoline. It does the same thing in gas cans and tanks. Like i said put some gas in a glass jar and you will see it start to seperate by the next day. Same thing happens in gas cans and tanks. I had no problem putting some gas in a glass jar. But if it worries you that much feel free not to do it. |
actions · 2015-Apr-8 7:02 pm · (locked) |
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to Jim_in_VA
For anyone reading this thread, most states it is illegal to store gasoline in gas jars. It's also extremely unsafe. |
actions · 2015-Apr-8 8:00 pm · (locked) |
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to ncbill
Pure gasoline may not freeze until -40F but if it is contaminated with moisture, such as condensation inside a nearly empty tank, the moisture can freeze at much higher temperatures when allowed to sit long enough to separate. Ethanol and other additives prevent water from fully separating and freezing in bad places. |
actions · 2015-Apr-8 8:44 pm · (locked) |
tcope
Premium Member
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT |
to DarkLogix
said by DarkLogix:said by Jim_in_VA:the question is does ethanol added to gasoline gum up small engines ...politics aside It can dissolve some rubber and those rubber partials can gum up the engine. E10 is not an issue with rubber. It's been studied. Perhaps you are (as I've mentioned before) thinking off E85. These are _far_ different. |
actions · 2015-Apr-8 9:27 pm · (locked) |
tobyTroy Mcclure
join:2001-11-13
Seattle, WA |
toby
Member
2015-Apr-8 10:52 pm
Ethanol breaks down plastic fuel lines and will cause small engines to be serviced more if they are not totally flushed of E10 petroleum. E10 = less power too.
Ever since I started buying E00, any small engine problems have gone away. |
actions · 2015-Apr-8 10:52 pm · (locked) |
 jed
Premium Member
join:2001-07-06
Alberta, Can |
to Jim_in_VA
Yes, ethanol in your fuel will likely cause problems. Had a brand new SB about 7yrs ago, used it that season, always with Sta-Bil. Got it ready the next fall, new fuel, changed oil, all was well.
Not. Hard starting, run rough, would not stay running without the choke on, and even then I was fiddling with the choke and throttle to keep it going. Local Polaris dealer, after I told him of my problem, gave me Polaris Carbon Clean to use. Said use twice the recommended amount at first and run it all that year, in non ethanol added fuel.
Did as he suggested and I started using AV gas when possible and 91 octane unleaded otherwise. No more issues.
Thank goodness I did not use that crap in the rest of my fleet of small engine stuff (17 at last count). If you are lucky, if you drain your carb of fuel when its sitting, if you don't store ethanol fuel in a plastic fuel can for more than a week (starts to degrade), if you use Sta-Bil, you might be ok.
I'll just use AV gas or premium non-ethanol unleaded, not do any of those things and just work my gear. |
actions · 2015-Apr-9 1:28 am · (locked) |
fixrmanFrom a broken heart to a hole in the sky
Premium Member
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA ·Verizon FiOS
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to rody_44
It doesn't separate that quickly if it is good quality fuel. It takes about 90 days. It won't do it in a car readily either because the fuel is always moving, either from motion going down the roadways (returnless systems) or additionally from fuel being returned from the fuel rail. The fact that automotive systems are closed means that ambient moisture will not be introduced. The water in fuel is likely due to seasonal fuel changes where water is already present in an underground tank or by a fuel cap allowing moisture (rain) into the filler neck or even refueling in a downpour with no canopy as a shield.
I have used the GM Fuel Quality tool many, many times and only rarely did I see phase separation - and that was due to the presence of water. Phase separation occurs when water - a contaminate - is present. Water is not much of a problem in a small quantity in E10 because water and alcohol are highly miscible. Pure gasoline will not mix with water readily, only in quite small amounts. So one is more likely to have a problem with water in fuel with pure gasoline than with E10/15.
I spent a lot of time in training from many different manufacturers rody, so don't think that wool cap generally employed is going to be effective with me. |
actions · 2015-Apr-9 10:14 am · (locked) |
| fixrman |
to jed
You do realise, don't you - that the Carbon Clean was doing about the same thing as ethanol would do? Check the MSDS of Polaris carbon clean and you will find it is a solvent. It is no better or worse than any other fuel system additive and basically does what another solvent - ethanol - will also do.
It is basically a mix of paint thinner (Stoddard solvent), naphtha, Trimethylbenzene and Xylene.
Perhaps the Polaris dealer is making additional money from you for the FUD generally being spread about E10 and E15. |
actions · 2015-Apr-9 10:29 am · (locked) |
DarkLogixTexan and Proud
Premium Member
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX |
to tcope
said by tcope:said by DarkLogix:said by Jim_in_VA:the question is does ethanol added to gasoline gum up small engines ...politics aside It can dissolve some rubber and those rubber partials can gum up the engine. E10 is not an issue with rubber. It's been studied. Perhaps you are (as I've mentioned before) thinking off E85. These are _far_ different. E85 does it as does E10, E10 just does it slower. |
actions · 2015-Apr-9 10:45 am · (locked) |
 FronkmanAn Apple a day keeps the doctor away
Premium Member
join:2003-06-23
Saint Louis, MO
2 recommendations |
to Jim_in_VA
man, the reek of tinfoil is strong here.
1. ethanol is acidic? it has a pH of 7.3, SLIGHTLY basic.
2. ethanol dissolves plastic? is that why plastic liquor bottles (often containing ethanol concentrations > 85%) are constantly dissolving in stores?
3. jack, perhaps your lawn equipment ran better after you got it fixed, because you know...you got it fixed
4. i can't believe there are people that still buy into the "more octane, must be better" garbage. if your engine is designed to run on 87 octane, anything more is just wasted money
5. i love how ethanol is SOO bad, but there is no problem with putting your own additives in the gas. sta-bil-- mineral spirits and isopropyl alcohol, marvel mystery oil -- proprietary formula with a flash point of 128F (that sounds safe!)
i completely agree that the promotion of ethanol as a fuel has a major political component, but we are talking about a 10% solution added as an anti-knock additive.
i think there are two bottom line messages here:
1. properly store carburetor-based equipment by draining the fuel system at the end of the season
2. lots of companies are able to make a buck by over-stating the risk of ethanol in order to sell you "special" gasoline or "special" fuel additives. |
actions · 2015-Apr-9 2:42 pm · (locked) |
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 Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH |
to Fronkman
Re: Ethanol gas?said by Fronkman:2. ethanol dissolves plastic? is that why plastic liquor bottles (often containing ethanol concentrations > 85%) are constantly dissolving in stores? There are many different types of plastic. My gas cans are "plastic" but pour gas in a plastic Dixie-type cup and watch what happens. |
actions · 2015-Apr-9 3:30 pm · (locked) |
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Dixie-type cups are not plastic they're wax coated paper. Pour WATER in a dixie-type cup and wait a day and watch what happens (hint: the cup dissolves) |
actions · 2015-Apr-9 3:47 pm · (locked) |
gadgetboyj
Premium Member
join:2009-08-25
Staten Island, NY |
said by OldCableGuy:Dixie-type cups are not plastic they're wax coated paper. Pour WATER in a dixie-type cup and wait a day and watch what happens (hint: the cup dissolves) I think he's referring to the other kind, like the red solo cups |
actions · 2015-Apr-9 4:32 pm · (locked) |
DarkLogixTexan and Proud
Premium Member
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX |
to Fronkman
said by Fronkman:as an anti-knock additive. Just give me pure Octane none of that heptane or hexane. |
actions · 2015-Apr-9 4:37 pm · (locked) |
fixrmanFrom a broken heart to a hole in the sky
Premium Member
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA |
fixrman
Premium Member
2015-Apr-9 4:41 pm
Ahhh, you want Lead, my friend. Good, old - fashioned, actually smells good Ethyl!  |
actions · 2015-Apr-9 4:41 pm · (locked) |
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Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH |
to gadgetboyj
Re: Ethanol gas?said by gadgetboyj:I think he's referring to the other kind, like the red solo cups Yes - now that I think about it, Dixie cups are like the little ones many people have in bathrooms. Paper cups but wax-coated (like McDonalds cups or similar). |
actions · 2015-Apr-9 6:59 pm · (locked) |
 John97Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium Member
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL |
John97
Premium Member
2015-Apr-9 7:04 pm
Dixie makes plastic cups too, I have a whole package of them in the kitchen cupboard. We use them when the grandkids are over. |
actions · 2015-Apr-9 7:04 pm · (locked) |
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to Fronkman
The whole E10 vs unleaded is like boxers vs briefs. In reality it don't make no difference, but good luck convincing people who are set in their ways. |
actions · 2015-Apr-9 9:24 pm · (locked) |
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