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NCRGuy
join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON

NCRGuy to PX Eliezer1

Member

to PX Eliezer1

Re: 9 weird traffic laws in Canada

said by PX Eliezer1:

said by NCRGuy:

No, you do not own a right to drive.

This Vancouver lawyer disagrees.

Is driving a privilege or a right? Driving is a right as is the right to hold a driver’s licence. Like all rights, there are restrictions and limits. The Right to Drive is limited in that the government may specify qualifications that must be met by potential drivers, including that they maintain a respectable driving record.

If a driver meets all of the requirements to obtain a license, the government cannot restrict that person’s right to obtain a driver’s licence and drive. In such a case, an experienced lawyer can apply to the court to get an order forcing the government to give them a driver’s licence.

»vancouvercriminallaw.com ··· nal-law/

Canadian courts have ruled both ways, this includes references to some of the cases.
»www.sense.bc.ca/disc/stead2.htm

The law in Ontario disagrees.

Driving a privilege
31. The purpose of this Part is to protect the public by ensuring that,
(a) the privilege of driving on a highway is granted to, and retained by, only those persons who demonstrate that they are likely to drive safely; and
(b) full driving privileges are granted to novice and probationary drivers only after they acquire experience and develop or improve safe driving skills in controlled conditions. 1993, c. 40, s. 1.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1 to VapourTrails

Premium Member

to VapourTrails
said by VapourTrails:

Just curious: What if the government were to administratively and without trial, revoke the texters' drivers license for, say, a period of 6 months; but gave the option for the person to voluntarily pay a sum of money to have it restored prematurely? Would that be easier to take?

I don't think so.

Broader issue---in both countries---is the use of slippery language to sidestep or negate constitutional rights.

Administrative proceeding, Person of interest, Civil forfeiture, No-Fly lists, the US Patriot Act, Canada's Bill C-51....

All leading down a road to tyranny.

Folks don't take it seriously until it happens to them.

See also:
»bccla.org/2015/03/8-thin ··· ll-c-51/

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to mr weather

Premium Member

to mr weather
said by mr weather:

Doesn't this ultimately come down to the fact that driving is privilege and not a right?

Right. Your drivers license is a privilege. It can be suspended. But you don't need to have a drivers license to own a car, you just need one to operate it on a public highway.
VapourTrails
join:2010-03-30
canada

VapourTrails to PX Eliezer1

Member

to PX Eliezer1
said by PX Eliezer1:

...to sidestep or negate constitutional rights.

Constitutions aren't static. If society decides to move forward with the times, constitutions can be amended. Think of how many lives would be saved if your country's right to bear arms became downgraded to a privilege to bear arms, subject to certain reasonable limits. (Not that I see that happening anytime soon.)
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned)

Member

said by VapourTrails:

said by PX Eliezer1:

...to sidestep or negate constitutional rights.

Constitutions aren't static. If society decides to move forward with the times, constitutions can be amended. Think of how many lives would be saved if your country's right to bear arms became downgraded to a privilege to bear arms, subject to certain reasonable limits. (Not that I see that happening anytime soon.)

I'm sure that would be a sure fire way to get all those militias into a frenzy and give them and the south an excuse to revolt.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

said by peterboro:

I'm sure that would be a sure fire way to get all those militias into a frenzy and give them and the south an excuse to revolt.

There's a lot of them in the North, too. The "militias" in Michigan are some of the worst.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1 to VapourTrails

Premium Member

to VapourTrails
said by VapourTrails:

Constitutions aren't static. If society decides to move forward with the times, constitutions can be amended.

Are you saying, then, that loss of privacy rights, loss of due process, is moving forward with the times?

Civil forfeiture targets property that is “a proceed or an instrument of unlawful activity,” wrote Ontario attorney-general spokesperson Brendan Crawley in an email. Yet no conviction — not even a charge — is necessary for a seizure.

“Proceeds means property, such as money, that is acquired as a result of unlawful activity. An instrument is property that is likely to be used to engage in unlawful activity, such as a house used as a marijuana grow operation. Property includes all types of assets, such as real estate, cars and cash,” Crawley wrote.

Legal experts say that the procedure is easily abused because the standard of proof in civil court is much lower than it is in a criminal proceeding.

If the Crown’s case isn’t strong enough for a criminal conviction — where it must be proved “beyond a reasonable doubt” — it still may be good enough to seize property, because in civil court you only need to demonstrate your case on “a balance of probabilities.” If a judge is 51 per cent convinced that a house was bought with dirty money or was used while committing a crime, then it can be snatched....

»www.thestar.com/news/inv ··· ime.html
PX Eliezer1

1 recommendation

PX Eliezer1 to VapourTrails

Premium Member

to VapourTrails
said by VapourTrails:

Think of how many lives would be saved if your country's right to bear arms became downgraded to a privilege to bear arms, subject to certain reasonable limits.

I used to feel that way too, my wife even more strongly than me.

Neither of us is so sure anymore.

Look at all the college students helplessly slaughtered by terrorists in Kenya. If some of the students had guns they could have fought back.

You may say, the US has way too many guns.

True. But they are already out there.

That being so, shouldn't good people be able to have guns to defend themselves against the criminals who surely do have them?
PX Eliezer1

PX Eliezer1 to peterboro

Premium Member

to peterboro
said by peterboro:

I'm sure that would be a sure fire way to get all those militias into a frenzy and give them and the south an excuse to revolt.

....Mr Pirelli is one of a growing number of Canadians who try to avoid financial obligations by claiming to be Freemen, Detaxers, followers of Moorish Law, members of the Church of the Ecumenical Redemption International or of other assorted groups. The Law Society of British Columbia, which represents lawyers in the province, estimates that 30,000 Canadians now share these allegiances....

»www.economist.com/news/a ··· ers-land
VapourTrails
join:2010-03-30
canada

VapourTrails to PX Eliezer1

Member

to PX Eliezer1
said by PX Eliezer1:

Are you saying, then, that loss of privacy rights, loss of due process, is moving forward with the times?

I'm saying that trading off some rights for some lives when the environment changes can be the best/optimal decision. That by itself doesn't make for a slippery slope to a tyranny.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

said by VapourTrails:

I'm saying that trading off some rights for some lives when the environment changes can be the best/optimal decision. That by itself doesn't make for a slippery slope to a tyranny.

I'm sorry, we'll have to disagree about that, because I think you've just defined that very thing.

-----

Seriously, and I am not saying which way worked out better, this partly reflects historical POV difference between those who were happy with the Crown, and those who were not.

AppleGuy
Premium Member
join:2013-09-08
Kitchener, ON

AppleGuy to Kardinal

Premium Member

to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:

I really wish more people knew about the "left turn on red is permitted from a one-way to a one-way" in Ontario though.

It get's complicated when you live in idiot cities that allow for left on red when they have some intersections that disallow right on red.

But I agree, I like looking like an evil rebel when I do a left from a one-way to another one-way...oh yeah.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

In my experience left on red has never really been a problem down here.

MacGyver

join:2001-10-14
Vancouver, BC

2 recommendations

MacGyver

In Hamilton it's a survival skill.
19579823 (banned)
An Awesome Dude
join:2003-08-04

19579823 (banned) to jaberi

Member

to jaberi
quote:
Starting April 23rd in Quebec, drivers younger than 25 caught texting will lose their license.
Good they should!!!!!

ANYONE USING THAT TRASH WHILE DRIVING DOESNT GIVE A RATS TAIL ABOUT ANYONE ELSE...... They all should lose thier licenses! (Permantly)

AppleGuy
Premium Member
join:2013-09-08
Kitchener, ON

AppleGuy to MacGyver

Premium Member

to MacGyver
Yeah, well, in the Hammer left on red is like second nature. Especially down the mountain. No left on red result in black-eye. Only once...

TigerLord

join:2002-06-09
Canada

TigerLord to jaberi

to jaberi
Woah I didn't know left turn on a red light was even a thing!