Home Improvement → [Electrical] Replacing wall switch with switch plus timer: 2 wires to 3 wire

I'd like to replace a simple wall light switch on/off with one that's a timer as well.»cds.a9t2h4q7.hwcdn.net/m ··· _NEW.jpg

The on / off switch has two wires (whoever did this house picked colors random whatever they had and I assume they had the brains to stay with black for hot...:
BLACK - HOT
BROWN - NEUTRAL

The switch with a timer has:
BLACK - HOT
RED - LOAD
WHITE - NEUTRAL

----------
What's the proper way to wire this up?

In this box I have two switches controlling two different lights.

Switch one:
BLACK
RED

Switch two:
RED
BROWN

Can you post a pic of what you have now?

Do you want to think that one over again?

If there were a hot and a neutral at a switch, the fuse/breaker would blow every time you turn it on.

Be careful. Glass houses and stones and all that.

Is it possible hat the brown is a dull red? I have noticed this before.

Buy a quality timer switch that doesn't require a neutral.

Quality and requiring a neutral are not related.

As mentioned, there will be no neutral connected to the switch. In older installations, it is very common to have no neutral whatsoever available in the box.
Before you run out and buy a timer that requires a neutral, you'll want to verify there is a neutral in the switch box. Inf not you are SOL and will need to run a new one or install a "no neutral" switch.
Most switches that do not require a neutral are battery powered or require the use of incandescent / halogen lamps.

Just a note, the neutral, if required, MUST be from the same circuit. You CANNOT just pick up a neutral from anywhere.

I haven't seen brown in any residential cables, so I am guessing your house is wired with conduit or Greenfield aka flex, etc ...
»forums.mikeholt.com/show ··· t=116492

If so, you may be able to add a white (or gray, if you want to keep things interesting for future DIYers) conductor for the neutral.

As already mentioned, photos of the involved boxes will be essential to get a reasonably reliable opinion on this topic.

If the electrical box does not include a neutral use one of these:
»www.intermatic.com/en/Pr ··· ies.aspx

Uses lithium batteries. I have installed several of these in my home, very reliable.

I can replace with more fancy timers (digital) but I don't know if they are two or three wire.
$13 vs $3x

I think you are going to need another wire. However it appears that you have conduit. If so, that should be an easy job. Look up into the top of the box where the wires enter it and take a pic.

IME, many speciality switches (timers, sensors, etc.) require a full-time live circuit (hot and neutral) to work and then feed the device. A simple switch leg will not work (there are some that will, check the specs). So it looks like you have the former, hot and neutral coming from the breaker and load feeding the light. Yes, color choices seem strange, but sometimes you gotta use what you've got. Generally the load will be red or another black with the neutrals all tied together.

Based on your picture the red wire is the hot wire so you will need to extend the neutral grounded conductor for that feeder to the box where the switches are.

Assumptions:

i. You have conduit between the switch box and the fixture box (the box on the ceiling).

ii. No white conductor in the ceiling fixture has been used as a switch leg.

You will need the appropriate length of white 12 or 14 AWG THHN/THWN solid etc. Look at your existing conductors to find out if you need 12 or 14.

1. Shut off power to all involved circuits.
2. Unscrew light fixture from ceiling or where ever the "load" is located.
3. Fish new white conductor from ceiling box to switch box.
4. Connect new white conductor to wire nut for white conductors in ceiling box.

In switch box:
5. Connect new WHITE conductor to NEUTRAL on timer.
6. Connect RED to LINE.
7. Connect BLACK to LOAD.
8. Put everything back together.
9. Turn power on.
10. Test.

Thanks for the info. I recently moved into a house that has an older electronic timer with no neutral for the front porch light. The battery only lasts a month without power (it normally draws power through the bulb's filament) and doesn't not play well with compact florescent bulbs. I spent an hour at home depot trying to find compatible bulbs (it seems many of the newer incandescent/halogen bulbs are "indoor use only"). I eventually found standard clear 60 watt incandescent bulbs labeled for use in the garage door opener.

I assume it's conduit, given the lack of ground wire? As posted above, it might be easy to push a new wire to the fixture to pickup the neutral.

I recently installed one of these countdown timers, which doesn't require a neutral, for a bath fan. The previous Leviton no-neutral timer I tried didn't run the fan at full speed, even though the HD "expert" swore it would work just fine. (This same "expert" when I went back, said use a normal 3-wire and just hook the neutral wire to ground!)
»www.amazon.com/Lutron-MA ··· 01EFV1DA

I also had a Woods/GE, no neutral timer in another bathroom and hated it. The light only blinks every once in a while so you can't tell how long it has left to run.
»www.homedepot.com/p/GE-I ··· 8262-_-N