dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
1092

Shamayim
Premium Member
join:2002-09-23

4 recommendations

Shamayim

Premium Member

Yay! a new number to leak (Medicare only)

Click for full size
from 2018 MC Handbook
MC is issuing new personal numbers next year, replacing the SS# that now appears on everyone's MC card.
Not a bad idea . . . I suppose.

Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium Member
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN

10 recommendations

Blackbird

Premium Member

I'm trying to picture all the medical software that expects a Medicare number to be xxx-xx-xxx format with all digits and the chaos this will cause until all the programs get updated. Unfortunately, I can't.

Then there's all the databases that will persist in carrying both the old number and the new one "for continuity" of patient history... when (not if) those get hacked, they will make a handy-dandy cross reference which will negate the new number's 'security improvements'.

DonoftheDead
Old diver
Premium Member
join:2004-07-12
Clinton, WA

9 recommendations

DonoftheDead to Shamayim

Premium Member

to Shamayim
It wouldn't surprise me if the new numbers wound up on the dark web before we even get them.

dandelion
MVM
join:2003-04-29
Germantown, TN

3 recommendations

dandelion to Shamayim

MVM

to Shamayim
Let's see.. uh.. (three ss number)(add two of the new number)(add half ss number and half the new number)

But, but.. that is my number, what do you mean you can't find me...what card? Oh, the one I left at home?
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

4 recommendations

dave to Blackbird

Premium Member

to Blackbird
said by Blackbird:

I'm trying to picture all the medical software that expects a Medicare number to be xxx-xx-xxx format with all digits and the chaos this will cause until all the programs get updated.

I view that as a upside - maybe it'll teach a few programmers not to wire assumptions deep in their code. The medicine may taste bad but it'll do them some good.
InternetJeff
I'm your huckleberry.
join:2001-09-25
.

5 recommendations

InternetJeff to Shamayim

Member

to Shamayim
Meh, it will just be another government number that they "promise" will never be used as a universal identifier. And that promise will be broken also.

former qwest
Premium Member
join:2014-01-04
out there

1 recommendation

former qwest to Shamayim

Premium Member

to Shamayim
the VA did that a few years ago. unfortunately, when i get my VA flu shot at Walgreens, i have to put my SSN on the form. so what's the use of having a member id number?

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

4 recommendations

StuartMW

Premium Member

From what I've seen from the TV ads and the above announcement this is only intended to prevent theft of SSN's from actual physical Medicare cards.

Presumably those with such cards lose them, leave them lying around, etc.

So the new cards either are intended to

• Counteract a real issue (theft of SSN's from cards).

• The US Govt. (Medicare) is spending a lot of money that doesn't address the real issue.
AsherN
Premium Member
join:2010-08-23
Thornhill, ON

2 recommendations

AsherN to dave

Premium Member

to dave
said by dave:

said by Blackbird:

I'm trying to picture all the medical software that expects a Medicare number to be xxx-xx-xxx format with all digits and the chaos this will cause until all the programs get updated.

I view that as a upside - maybe it'll teach a few programmers not to wire assumptions deep in their code. The medicine may taste bad but it'll do them some good.

Knowing the length, format and validation routine for and field, especially what becomes a key identifier and likely the primary key to the database, is just good programming.

Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium Member
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN

3 recommendations

Blackbird to dave

Premium Member

to dave
said by dave:

said by Blackbird:

I'm trying to picture all the medical software that expects a Medicare number to be xxx-xx-xxx format with all digits and the chaos this will cause until all the programs get updated.

I view that as a upside - maybe it'll teach a few programmers not to wire assumptions deep in their code. The medicine may taste bad but it'll do them some good.

Unfortunately, the way it actually will work is that it will make a number of software companies a lot of money as the result of necessary program upgrades that will be sold to accommodate the new mandated format. Since the change would be the result of a revised government requirement, it would ripple down as a financial reward for wiring in similar assumptions in the future. Such a process illustrates the Law of Unintended Consequences.

Kilroy
MVM
join:2002-11-21
Saint Paul, MN

3 recommendations

Kilroy to Shamayim

MVM

to Shamayim
I want to say that they have been on the other medical insurance providers to not use your SSN for medical insurance information for over a decade, about time the government caught up.
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

3 recommendations

dave to Blackbird

Premium Member

to Blackbird
Well, the smart way is to wire in the current format at a single point of truth, quote 1 man-year to fix it at large cost, and make an enormous profit on your half-hour of work.

Quality programming is not incompatible with massive profiteering!

dave

dave to AsherN

Premium Member

to AsherN
Perhaps, but the usual reason such things are hard to change is that 746 individual pieces of code all independently "know" the structure. And the hard part is locating those 746 routines.

(The important word in my posting, I suppose, was "deep")

CylonRed
MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

1 edit

2 recommendations

CylonRed to Shamayim

MVM

to Shamayim
Most important thing to note however - the new number can't be used to get credit cards or loans as you and THAT is the large issue with the SSN on the Medicare care (that should have never been there).

Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium Member
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN

2 recommendations

Blackbird to Shamayim

Premium Member

to Shamayim
Considering that way back at the beginning, the SSN itself was to be simply a retirement account number for each citizen and never to be used for anything else, the path for it to become effectively a national ID number turned out to be slippery - and politically inevitable. As such, any new Federal-level, citizen-related numbering scheme has similar potential and must be watched carefully to prevent its misuse in the future.

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

2 recommendations

StuartMW

Premium Member

I think the next big push won't be for a National ID card (i.e. a SSN card with a photo) but an embedded, at birth, identifier (e.g. like an RFID tag).

Harder to fake (but possible), economic (i.e cheap), and able to replace everyting else. No need for DL's, passports, etc (just scan the person and check a database).

Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium Member
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN

3 recommendations

Blackbird to Shamayim

Premium Member

to Shamayim
Positive identification has always been challenging, even back when it was via in-person, visible, Q/A criteria. Replacing the actual person with a symbolic representation of whatever kind has only made the problem worse, and symbolic representation is what computers and digital communications are all about. Technology comes and goes, as does its effectiveness for aiding positive identification... but the ID problem will probably never really be 100% resolved, no matter how many multi-factor mechanisms, recognition schemes, or chip-implants are invented. In the meantime, the eternal threats to individual freedom and privacy involved in any approach to national ID will remain.

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

StuartMW

Premium Member

One could use an ID based on a persons DNA (the unique part) which would be really hard to fake. One could always verify the ID by taking a DNA sample.

Of course it may become possible to read a persons DNA very quickly in which case no other kind of ID will be required.

Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium Member
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN

Blackbird

Premium Member

said by StuartMW:

One could use an ID based on a persons DNA (the unique part) which would be really hard to fake. One could always verify the ID by taking a DNA sample. ...

The ID problem would especially still remain for remote personal identification (online, etc). There's not even a conceptual mechanism for live-testing a person's DNA remotely, and anything like some future sampling mechanism as part of a user computer would be inherently subject itself to potential tampering or fakery as are all such mechanisms. Whatever symbols stand in for a human being are subject to counterfeiting or impersonation, given the well-demonstrated array of human cleverness.

Chubbzie
join:2014-02-11
Greenville, NC
Hitron CDA3
(Software) OpenBSD + pf

Chubbzie to StuartMW

Member

to StuartMW
said by StuartMW:

One could use an ID based on a persons DNA

Yes, DNA is completely unique but the equipment used to test, analyze and measure them are highly vulnerable.

R2
R Not
MVM
join:2000-09-18
Long Beach, CA

1 edit

R2 to Shamayim

MVM

to Shamayim
You mean our government lied to us??!

I remember my parents’ SS cards had this on them. By the time I got mine (decades ago), that statement was gone.

Look at all the problems that created! Who decided to do this??

And is facial recognition the answer? Can’t I just buy a Donald Trump mask at the local ‘Joke and Magic Shop’ - and then can I run the country? Hey, I might do a better job!

(Oh, sorry - didn’t mean to give this a political twist!)
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

dave

Premium Member

said by R2:

You mean our government lied to us??!

It's the card that is not for identification. Possession of the card does not identify you as "R2".

"The government" cannot control whether some for-profit company decides to use your social-security number for identification. Well, they could have made a law against it, but they didn't.

Compare a credit card. That's not for identification, either, but it says nothing about the use of the number on the card.

Yours for accuracy in use of language!

R2
R Not
MVM
join:2000-09-18
Long Beach, CA

3 edits

R2

MVM

I have always chosen to use language as it fits me. Is that not correct?

The only thing on the card is the number (well, that and your name). So it stands to reason that they were referring to the number. It also stands to reason that that is why they removed that statement (i.e., people were using the number for dedication purposes). Otherwise the statement would still be there… Wouldn’t it?

Fun fact: the number appeared on the cards from 1946 to 1972. It was never meant to be used in the national identifying number, but that’s what happened anyways. And now that certainly has caused a lot of problems…

Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium Member
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN

6 recommendations

Blackbird to Shamayim

Premium Member

to Shamayim
A very brief history of how we got here with Social Security and Medicare cards follows:

In August 1935, Roosevelt signed Social Security into law. Its original purpose, made clear in the Congressional debates on the Act, was strictly limited to: tracking a US citizen's lifetime earnings to calculate his retirement benefits, collect payments to the SS Fund, and make payments to retirees. After SS was signed into law, the Social Security Board came into existance and began registering both US employers and workers using a 9-digit account number.

In 1943, an executive order required Federal agencies to use SSNs to identify people in any new records systems. In 1946, the "Not for ID" notification was added to the card to prohibit it being used for over-the-counter ID (this was removed in 1972). In 1965, Medicare came into existence and began using SSNs for identification. In the early 1970's, the SS Act was amended to assign SSNs to legal noncitizens and to anyone applying for Federal benefits. Then came legislation authorizing use of SSNs in administering taxes at state and local levels, as well as on drivers licenses and vehicle registrations. In the 1980's came legislation allowing use of the SSNs for military draft registration, CDLs, and store operators redeeming food stamps; likewise came the requirement to register children for their SSNs by age 5 (since lowered to age 1). In the 1990's came the requirement for employers to send individual SSNs to the SSA upon hiring. FWIW, the card itself has been revised at least 34 times from inception until 2007 (the last data I could find).

The mission-creep of making a Federally issued citizen "account" number into a national citizen ID number is self-evident from this. In recent years, with the resurgence of privacy concerns and increases in data theft, there has been a modest reduction in the usage of SSNs required in a number of areas, Medicare being the latest. Unfortunately, the horse is long gone out of the barn and over the far mountains... SSNs of one format or another aren't going away and will remain as citizen IDs for all intents and purposes as long as the databases and cross-references remain.