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DLarose

join:2000-04-04
Ottawa, ON

Rogers Hi-Speed 225% PRICE INCREASE

I am getting pissed off with Rogers and their one-sided TOS, and the fact that they have cut the speed back by 50% while lying about it. . I am not a bandwidth hog, but over the past two years my service has increased in price by 12.5% but they now deliver 50% less product. This in effect works out to a price increase of 225.2%, plus a yet to be decided cap, but seeing how Rogers is matching Sympatico I would guess 5 GB/month. Rogers new advertised on their website is "up to" 1.5 mbps down (was 3 mbps)/ 192 kbps up (was 400 kbps)



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable

Yeah well, unfortunately bell and rogers have monopolies, they can do whatever they please. This is the way Internet is going, everything is going to be pay per use, pay per click and pay per everything... I hate it, but what can I do, i'm just a pathetic, bandwidth hogging user in their view. enough of my rant, off to watch Mad TV.
--
Go Leafs Go! Die Sens Die!



DR_JAY

join:2002-04-23
Verdun, QC
reply to DLarose

nothing is free here buddy... hey, when they put cable TV in competition, people were saying lower prices will come...

I've had basic cable since the early 80's... early childhood... it was 9.95 / month. Now, what I see on the bill is 31.95 for BASIC cable... Do you see my whining about it?

I can see this happening to other ISP's in the next few months, having certain packages (lite, medium, heavy) for cable Internet... and jacking up the prices... its all competition my friend, and really, that's what the whole world is about, who's the big winner...

oh well, heck.. its inflation... what can you do?



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable

Sure, prices go up, but do you see cable tv companies charging for how long you watch the tv? I've had cablemodem for nearly 4 years, and its been unlimited usage all this time, and now they want to impose limits. Imagine how pissed you'd be if they only gave you 20 hours of TV per month, then you'd get charged for extra usage. Thats all I'm saying... I can live with pricing increase, and bandwidth caps on lower tiers, but there still should be a totally unlimited service, even at $60-70/month. Sympatico is going to offer a 3mbit Ultra Fast residential service for $69.99, with a retarded 10gb/month cap! with 3mbit you can easily do that in two days! and they want $8 per extra gigabyte?! thats just nuts... They say bandwidth costs about $1 US per gigabyte. where the hell are they getting these extra costs then? Damn monopolies, I hate!
--
Go Leafs Go! Die Sens Die!



VindictiV
Pebkac Error
Premium
join:2001-11-27
Burlington, ON
reply to DLarose

As much as it is easy to bitch about monopolies, you may have it better than you think.

All you have to do is look south of the border, and tell me please where the benefit is in deregulation? Their rates are higher and their service is worse in most instances.

Not to mention, with all that competition down there a good number of them are now in serious financial trouble.

Times have changed, thats for sure.
Comparing cable tv to cable internet is not a valid comparison. Cable TV is carried over RF signals that can be shared by everyone with no additional cost per subscriber on the transit side (aside from licensing costs, etc). Bandwidth does on the other hand cost money per user.

Im not happy as a user about caps; but then Im almost sure the caps are not going to affect me eithier. I use the Internet quite frequently, definitely above average.. but Im also not downloading pirated movies every night eithier.

Its almost amusing to see people complain about the caps.. since normal and even above average use will not put you over the caps unless you do a LOT of downloading.
So what is it people are downloading that uses up all the bandwidth? I dont even need to answer that its pretty obvious.

If you are in Canada, you'll probably want to check out SOCANs latest.. tariff 22.
I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to do some research on tariff 22 and what it is going to mean to the average user.. but lets say its not going to be pretty.

The bandwidth caps wont be an issue if this is enforced.
--
There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people. - Dogbert


cheethde

join:2002-05-13
reply to DLarose

Not everyone with higher than average bandwidth use is downloading pirated music or video, in fact there are a lot of people in the IT field who work remotely and use our personal DSL accounts to connect to the company VPN because we're on call 24 hours!. Now this will also count against our bandwidth and that's outrageous!



digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to VindictiV

Hey Vindictiv,

The downside of bitcaps is that since there is now a finite amount of data that is downloadable (unless one is willing to pay more), there is now a finite limit to how much broadband content will grow.

At some point, the bitcap and rich media content will collide. In other words, the market penetration for broadband will reach a plateau, because subscribers won't be willing to pay extra for content that takes them over their bit cap. It's the end of broadband. Sure, people will still want broadband for speed, but that's all.

User pay is the best way to charge, but it's also the easiest to cut back on when the charges are not a good value. Like the 407 tolls, the point of diminishing returns arrives when each $ increase in tolls does NOT result in the same $ increase in revenue.



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to cheethde

Pardon ?

The fact that you work from home and use broadband to connect to work is to your benefit and your employer's benefit and nothing to do with your broadband provider. You say the fact that you have to pay for your bandwidth to do your job is outrageous ? Why should your broadband provider pay for your bandwidth to do your job ????? Now that would be outrageous. If you have to do your job remotely, perhaps your employer would pay your bill with you paying the excess bandwidth charges representing your own use.

In fact, if you look at the terms of service, business use is actually not permitted, because Rogers does not provide the "level of support commensurate with business requirements".

Most remote workers I know still would not consume 3.5 MB per month for their job (over and above the standard 1.5 MB average).



TheMatrix

join:2001-02-12
Canada
reply to DLarose

For those interested in SOCANs Tariff 22 that Vindictiv referenced, I will save you the time and effort of trying to find it. Here is a cut and paste of said tariff:

quote:
COPYRIGHT BOARD
»www.cb-cda.gc.ca/tariffs/propose···02-b.pdf

Statement of Proposed Royalties to Be
Collected by SOCAN for the Public Performance
or the Communication to the Public by
Telecommunication, in Canada, of Musical or
Dramatico-Musical Works
for the Year 2003

Page 28…

Tariff No. 22
TRANSMISSION OF MUSICAL WORKS TO
SUBSCRIBERS VIA A TELECOMMUNICATIONS
SERVICE NOT COVERED UNDER TARIFF NOS. 16 OR 17

[NOTE TO PROSPECTIVE USERS: Tariff 22 was first proposed and filed by SOCAN for the year 1996, and was again filed in the same tariff structure and formula for 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002.

A hearing took place in 1998 that considered certain legal and jurisdictional issues prior to the determination of the tariff and rate and the Copyright Board released its Decision on October 27, 1999. SOCAN subsequently applied to the Federal Court of Appeal for judicial review of certain aspects of the Copyright Board Decision.

Pending the outcome of the determination by the Courts and of the Board’s further consideration of the tariff, SOCAN refiles it for 2003. However, SOCAN recognizes that modifications to the tariff may be necessary as a result of the hearings before the Board.

It is SOCAN’s intention that the tariff reflect the value of the music to all users in the communication chain. It remains SOCAN’s preference that the fees be paid to SOCAN by the entities that provide end users with access to the telecommunication networks, provided, however, that if some or all access providers are determined not to be liable or otherwise do not pay the approved fees, then the tariff should provide for payment of the fees by other appropriate participants in the communication chain.]

For a licence to communicate to the public by telecommunication, in Canada, musical works forming part of SOCAN’s repertoire, by a telecommunications service to subscribers by means of one or more computer(s) or other device that is connected to a
telecommunications network where the transmission of those works can be accessed by each subscriber independently of any other person having access to the service, the licensee shall pay a monthly fee calculated as follows:
(a) in the case of those telecommunications services that do not earn revenue from advertisements on the service, $0.25 per subscriber.
(b) in the case of those telecommunications services that earn revenue from advertisements on the service, 10 per cent of gross revenues, with a minimum fee of $0.25 per subscriber.

“Telecommunications service” includes a service known as a computer on-line service, an electronic bulletin board service (BBS), a Web site, a network server or a service provider or similar operation that provides for or authorizes the digital encoding, random access and/or storage of musical works or portions of musical works in a digitally encoded form for the transmission of those musical works in digital form via a telecommunications network or that provides access to such a telecommunications
network to a subscriber’s computer or other device that allows the transmission of material to be accessed by each subscriber independently of any other person having access to the service. “Telecommunications service” shall not include a “music supplier” covered under Tariff 16 or a “transmitter” covered under Tariff 17.

“Subscriber” means a person who accesses or is contractually entitled to access the service or content provided by the telecommunication service in a given month.

“Gross revenues” includes the total of all amounts paid by subscribers for the right to access the transmissions of musical works and all amounts paid for the preparation, storage or transmission of advertisements on the service.

“Advertisements on the service” includes any sponsorship announcement, trade-mark, commercial message or advertisement displayed, communicated or accessible during connection to or with the service or to which the subscriber’s attention is directly or indirectly guided by means of a hypertext link or other means.

The fee shall be paid within 10 days of the end of each month together with a report of the number of subscribers and the gross revenues described above for the relevant month.

SOCAN shall have the right to audit the licensee’s books and records, on reasonable notice and during normal business hours, to verify the statements rendered and the fee payable by the licensee.

cheethde

join:2002-05-13

reply to sbrook

Sorry you missed my point Sbrook. I use my personal DSL account to connect to the office as a convenience to me not my employer, I do it so I don't have to go into the office at ungodly hours in the middle of the night or weekends. They pay for my cell phone so they can call me at all hours, they're not going to pay for my internet access. I know people who work for Bell that are expected to work remotely from home and Bell doesn't pay for their internet access either!

I agree with Peterbrown, the caps will be the end of rich media content on the net, no more audio or video streaming and forget visiting high bandwidth flash sites. We may as well all go back to dial-up where there are no caps and tie up the phone lines and modem pools for endless hours!

Sympatico are the biggest jerks so far, their bandwidth tracker doesn't even give customers current stats, it lags 2 days behind so you really don't know where you're at! It will be easy to exceed 5gb without accurate up to date info and I guarantee that's what Sympatico is counting on. It's gouge the customer time.
[text was edited by author 2002-05-13 11:28:45]



Krispy1
Premium
join:2001-12-11
the stix
kudos:1

I too work in the "IT field" and I too work from home at night and on weekends. I sometimes connect via the VPN and I've yet to exceed the limits with my combination of personal and business internet use.

I honestly don't know but I highly doubt Sympatico is out to 'gouge the customer...'. If their counter is 2 days behind write a professional letter asking why and if it will be fixed, now is the time before they begin charging.

As for 'We may as well all go back to dial-up' ... you obviously haven't been stuck on dial-up in a while. Speaking as someone who's nearing the first full year of broadband I can honestly say I would never go back to dial-up voluntarily...never never never. As VindictiV mentioned this is not going to affect the majority of people so they're not going to go back to dial-up because this doesn't affect them. Sure some people will leave but as I keep saying over and over and over, if there's this mass exodus that people keep talking about then the providers will revisit their policies.


cheethde

join:2002-05-13

reply to DLarose

Lippy,

I used dial-up for many years and I've been on DSL for the past 3 years and also would not like to go back to dial-up, however if internet content ends up being stifled by ISP caps, then the whole point of having high speed becomes redundant, and my point was that Sympatico's dial-up access remains capless.

Sympatico is well aware their bandwidth tracker is 2 days behind and they have no intention of fixing it, they even go so far as to point this out on their web site, so Sympatico members beware.

Sympatico will attract the people who want 3mb throughput for $70, this is much more expensive with other ISP's, however it's the 1mb throughput level where Sympatico will see a loss in membership.

Whether or not you exceed your bit cap depends on how large your ISP set the cap. 5gb is not a large amount for both personal and business use when you're a system administrator.

[text was edited by author 2002-05-13 16:41:15]



Krispy1
Premium
join:2001-12-11
the stix
kudos:1

The whole point of high speed is just that...high speed. When I was stuck on dialup (waiting eons for my local news site to come up, losing connectivity while trying to chat with friends, horrible gaming, inconsistent connectivity to work, etc) I was dreaming of broadband for faster connectivity, not the ability to download every file I happened across.

The reason Sympatico's (and others) dial-up cap access remains capless is that the opportunity for excess usage is not as likely (yes it is possible but highly unlikely that someone will stay connected for 30 consecutive days at max throughput).

I honestly don't know much about Sympatico's usage system but if you have communicated with them, and don't mind sharing, I'm sure some of us would be interested in their answer to your question regarding the two day lag so please post it if you don't mind.

quote:
5gb is not a large amount for both personal and business use when you're a system administrator.
Hey VindictiV...how was your bandwidth back in the day when you were a lowly SA

cheethde

join:2002-05-13
reply to DLarose

Lippy,

The whole point of high speed is being able to access media rich content such as audio and video streaming and online gaming, not downloading every file in sight as you put it. I don't know about you, but I've been in the IT business for over 15 years and this is the first time I've been faced with download/upload limits since the old BBS day's. Now Sympatico is telling members not to listen to internet radio or access other high bandwidth content to stay under the limit!

You say you never exceed your limits for combined personal and business use yet your profile shows your ISP is Cogeco and they don't have an imposed cap (yet). Pretty hard to exceed something that's unlimited!

Contrary to your opinion of SA's, who do you think controls network and internet access at the corporate level, it's the all powerful SA (at least where I work)!



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable

The whole point of high speed is to do that which you were normally doing on dial up a whole lot faster.

That is the premise on which the broadband networks were developed. They were NOT designed with media rich content in mind. Media rich content happened because of unlimited broadband courtesy of @home ... we don't need to ask what happened to them.

Only rarely do I download anything big. Last month I did download Linux 7.2 ... 2 Gigs. I don't do that too often!

If you want that kind of bandwidth, you MUST be ready willing and able to pay for it. If you aren't, then don't use it so much. If you don't require the speed of broadband after you decide all this media rich content is unaffordable, and won't get frustrated doing what you need to do, drop to lite services or dial up. I don't think you'll like it.

I used dial up internet for too many years with frustration to consider going back.



digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2

I have no problem with paying extra for additional gigs of download. I don't come close to 5GB a month usage.

What I am saying is that at some point in the future, most people will routinely use 5GB a month, just like we routinely use 256MB or more of RAM on our ever-faster PCs. With the current bitcaps in place, the Internet will NOT be a place for media rich content, so any company that is basing their business strategy on that content had better rethink. .NET?

The low consumer acceptance of digital cable is a taste of things to come.



digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to Krispy1

There won't be a mass exodus, but you won't be getting mass sign-ups either.



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable

I absolutely agree ... you can see the content providers and companies like Real Networks, Apple Quicktime, and MS getting cheesed off at bit capping. But, until the cost to move data around drops significantly (and it won't until Nortel and the rest of the comms industry comes out of the doldrums to develop cheaper hardware, caps on broadband will be a way of life.

In a few years, after DOCSIS 2 is introduced which will help clean up the delivery end, and some improvements on the backbone routers and telecoms costs out there drop, then caps will probably be increased. BUT it will probably take a drop of 40% to get the caps up to double where they are today. It will come ... but it will be driven by the content providers, not the user community.


cheethde

join:2002-05-13

I wouldn't hold my breath for Nortel to develop any new hardware, they're stocks dropped again. I don't think we'll be seeing them around much longer.

[text was edited by author 2002-05-14 00:19:29]



T Dot

@bellworld.ca

Nortel's stock price only affects their ability to raise new capital, and yeap they definitely need to finance their debt. Since the entire optical sector is in a situation similar to Nortel, they're about as likely to go as any other in the business.