Game On > An opinion.

An opinion.

hmmmm, lets see A SONY PS2 FAN! its Sony PScrap version 2 with worse graphics and worse misc.

reply to SKYHN
hmmmm, lets see A SONY PS2 FAN!

reply to SKYHN
First of all, PS2 isn't the only console that is able to run Tony Hawk 3 online. You can also play it online with the x-box. Also, Phantasy Star Online is not Gamecube only. Get your facts straight. They have already announced PSO2 for the x-box. Also, Skies of Arcadia is not PS2 only. I'd hate to tell you, but it was released on the Dreamcast a long time ago. Also, where did you get the fact that Squaresoft won't put FFXI on the x-box because of the Live! network. The reason why Squaresoft will not be doing that is because Sony owns %20 of the company. And do you really think Sony would approve that? I think not. I'd like to know where you get your information from.

Now, how do you figure setting up your PS2 to play games online will be simple? First of all, your going to have to buy an modem and an hard drive. I'm not sure how much the hard drive is going to be, but lets say it's the same price as the modem, which is $40. Now, add those two figures up and you get $80. Than, let's add the game price, which will be $50. That's $130 to play FFXI. Than you have to pay a monthly fee to play it online. Wow, it seems like this game is going to cost you a pretty penny already. Also, how do you figure that it's going to be easy to set up? From what I have heard from people who have imported it, it's a pain in the butt.

Also, your going to have to pay a fee to be able to use the Sony network.

You need to get your facts straight. When your done with that, realize that you are a Sony fanboy, and each one of your "facts" was biased. Oh yeah, while people are playing online with the X-box and PS2, you will still be sitting offline with your Gamecube.
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Super Vegita and Super Son Gokou+fusion earrings=Vegetto, the super fusion.

First off, Im not a sony fan.

Anyways, THPS3 is only online for PS2. Even Activision has said that. The other 2 have LAN play, which you can use with that rinky dink gamespy backdoor thing, but the code is for LAN and it has lots of lag when played over the net. PS2 is the only version that has true online play. You can even email activision and ask them yourself.

Skies of Arcadia was on DC, but is the DC alive anymore? No.(well when it outsold Xbox that week in japan, that was just too funny) Skies of Arcadia is PS2 only between Xbox, PS2 and GC. As for PSO, its already in Jeopardy of being canceled for Xbox. Been like that for a while. Sega does not like Xbox live, they are only putting mainly sports games because they wont have to worry about that kind of game, once its out, they arent responsible. Its starting to show that even as much money as they are bribing sega with, there becomes a limit.

Another game that is Online for PS2 only - Maden 2003, which is one of the most popular game series in the United States(I hate sports games though).

Secondly, counting the cost of the Net Adapter and hard Drive to play 1 game is totally stupid. If you are gonna buy all that just to play FFXI, you may as well buy it for PC if you already have one. You make it seem as if that is the only game that the net adapter and Hard Drive will work with. With the # of PS2 Net Adapter and Hard Drive compatable games comming out in the 100's, its foolish to say that. The net adapter also comes with a coupon for a free copy of Twisted Metal: Black Online and will have rebates for some Broadband ISP's, such as Aol+, Earthlink DSL, and about 4 others. You will also be able to send in a rebate with proof of purchase of the PS2 Mouse/Keyboard and Net Adapter bringing the cost down even more.

And where is the "fee" for the sony network? The only fee's you pay are fee's to play MMO's, which Nintendo is doing as well and MS will being doing too. THERE WILL NEVER BE A FREE MMO GAME. Its just fact. It costs the company too much to run servers, make patches, maintenance servers and everything else involved to just take the $50 they make off selling the game and not have to have some other income off it. If you dont like pay to play, then dont play them.

Gamecube doesnt seem to have too many games comming out for online, but it does have some exclusives and it will get some attention with them. Nintendo is working on a Pokemon MMORPG. I dont like pokemon and Im not going to buy that, but with the way pokemon games sell, that will probably be one of the most popular games out of all 3 consoles.

I only use fact and fact is Xbox Live is not a good idea and it will not work. Why do you think there are only maybe 2 or 3 networks like that in the world? Because they just dont work.

Have a nice day
[text was edited by author 2002-05-24 18:51:35]

[text was edited by author 2002-05-24 19:11:16]

First of all every single developer will have to charge with sony's online plan how else will they recoup the money for running servers, maintenance and security. And while were on that point you keep saying that companies will charge for MMO on xbox live because of the cost of running servers, maitenance and security but that is exactly why microsoft is running xbox live so individual developers wont have theses cost. Have you read any press releases from E3.

What self respecting gamer would want microsoft service to fail. I understand that microsoft just want to control my living room but in the process they have worked to advance the video game industry much more than sony. Do you think Sony would be even pushing online games if microsoft wasnt in the picture.

And lastly I have my opinions and you have yours. I can respect yours as long as you respect mine. But how can you say that it is a fact that xbox live is a bad idea. We can all speculate as to what is a good ideal and what is not. But to say that it is a fact that it is a bad ideal is pretty arrogant. And it is that statement that leads me to believe you are a fanboy. And that not a fact, just my opinion.

One more thing. Why are people who have one console so negative towards another. I want xbox live to reach it's full potential, but I definetly dont want it to be the only thing out there. When you read some of these people's posts you get the feeling that they think the console that they dont have is the devil. Microsoft and Sony are taking two different approaches. Only time will tell which one is the most succesful. Keep in mind that both online plans could be succesfull. Only one could be number one but who cares, as long as they become profitable and are enjoyable. And that is what it should be about the games not the companies.

said by Ruserious:

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First of all every single developer will have to charge with sony's online plan how else will they recoup the money for running servers, maintenance and security. And while were on that point you keep saying that companies will charge for MMO on xbox live because of the cost of running servers, maitenance and security but that is exactly why microsoft is running xbox live so individual developers wont have theses cost. Have you read any press releases from E3.

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I understand you argument but the problem I see is how many MMO games can you play. To move online gaming forward we dont need more MMO. We need to expand other genres to the online arena. Have you ever played football online. I used to on seganet and it was 100 times better than playing the computer. These types of games are going to be what moves things forward.

If Sony's online plans work the same as the PC then the only companies with the resources to make online games will be companies that make PC games. Personally I dont think that what most console gamers want. They want to see the games that they are used to playing online. They want sports, racing, fighting, shooting and adventure games onling. And yeah EA might be able to make some of them but thats about it. But with microsofts online plan, any developer under the sun can make their next installment of the favorite genre online.

And the most promising thing about xbox online to me is to have one userID for all of your games. You be able to have your stats for all the games you play in one place. You know how you stack up against every other xbox online player in the world. I think these types of things will help to build a tight communitiy of gamers. There are a few places on the net that keep your stats and this is becoming very popular but there is no single place that will keep all of your stats for every game you play.

And the only thing that I have heard microsoft stating about patches was that they would not release a product before it was ready and then just release a patch to fix it, which is the case for numerous pc games. That was to let people know that they were treating the xbox as a console and not a pc.

In the end it's obvious that we are not going to agree, what I dont understand it that you see to want microsofts plan to fail mainly because it's not sony's. I could see if you said "well this doesnt sound like what I want so I wont buy it". But instead you say that it just fail. Microsoft wont be able to do this, microsoft wont be able to that. You dont know what they are capable of doing, you can only speculate.

This is my last comment on this subject but in the end I hope microsfort is able to take online gaming to a much broader audience. I belive it will hell the gaming industry as well as the broadband industry. I also hope that sony's online plans do that same. I dont have a PS2 but my roomate does and I purchase games for it as well(GTA3 rocks!). But mostly I hope that gamers will stop being fanboys of the companies that make these consoles.

From what I know, between PS2, Xbox and GC there are about 12 MMO's planned altogether(Not counting ones more than once that will be on more than one system). I personally can only play 2 MMO's at once for 2 reasons: Cost and Time. Some of these MMO's will be a long ways apart. FFXI will be out in November/December for PS2, Skies of Arcadia for PS2 comes out early 2003, Xbox and GC will get PSO either end of 2002 or early 2003 and Star Wars: An Empire Divided(Galaxies) wont be out on any console until the end of 2003, if not 2004(The Console one will insclude the space combat expansion and that is not planned to be even out on PC til 1 year after the initial launch of SWG, which is December 2002). The rest comming out have either been hardly announced or are rumor. Nintendo is working on a Pokemon MMO though, but its being kept quiet.

Sports, racing, fighting, shooting and adventure games of course will be free on all the consoles. They outnumber the MMO's by far. But with an MMO, everyone is in the game at the same time if your on the same server. Can 2,000 people play in the same game of an FPS or in a Football game at the same time? No way. Also, speaking of sports games and Xbox Live, Maden 2003, one of the most popular game series ever, is for PS2 and Xbox, but the PS2 version is the only one playable online. Why is that? Because EA does not like Xbox Live and they know to stay away from it.

I say that MS's Xbox Live will not work because there have been and still are communities just like it that have failed and are failing, none of them have ever been even remotely sucessful. Gamespy Arcade is a prime example. Gamespy finnaly started allowing people to host games a while ago simply because they couldnt handle it on their own. Yes a lot of people still use gamespy, but that was only after people outside gamespy's network were allowed to host games.

When Xbox live finnaly comes out, there will be probably around 100,000 to 200,000 people using it. Of those I would estimate that over half of them quit using Xbox Live due to one of the reasons I stated in my other posts. Its just not possible to promise so many complicated things as MS has.

I really think though that the 2 major flaws are: No keyboard/Mouse, only Xbox Controler and Gamevoice AND 1 Network for all games.

What all the console gaming online plans come down to is: Are people who have dial-up or no internet at all willing to pay $50 a month for Broadband? And the answer to that is a big fat "No". Console gaming is not ready for Online gaming yet, not for another 3 or 4 years.

Well have to wait a few weeks or a month after Xbox Live is fully launched to see if Im right.


[text was edited by author 2002-05-28 08:02:38]

I thought I was going to be done with this but I cant seem to walk away. First of all you still seem to be stuck on MMO. What is the number one online game played on the internet. Is it a MMO? No, it's counter-strike. Which is also coming to the xbox. What you are failing to realize is MMO are the games that with small communities. The average game is not going to want to spend the time with everquest. The want to pop in a disc find a game of counter-strike, NFL 2K3, Gran tourismo or whatever. Jump in and play a few games with people from around the world while talking trash to them and then jump out.

And as far as EA they claim that they didnt want to bring Madden 2003 online for the xbox becuase they dont like their system but everyone know that EA and Sony are working together. Hell, sony probably paid them not to take it online. Madden 2003 will be EA first online console game, but what about sega. By the end of this year they will have completed their 13 online game, most of which will all be on the xbox.

As for FFXI, I'm sure you heard the horror stories about that. It was already released and running(well sort of)in japan and it terrible. They had to give people the first month free because they cant get the servers running right and things like that. But hey sony had to rush to say they were the first ones to do it.

Supposedly microsoft has done studies and found that about 45% of the 4 million xbox owners already have broadband connections. Now that about 2 million people. If they could only get 25% of those people to sign up right there you got a community of 500,000 people right there.

I guess we will have to wait and see. I know I'm already signed up to be a beta tester. Me and my roomate have two xbox's and playing halo with 8 ppl and 2 tv's is a blast. So I guess they've got 2 customers. I doubt we'll be the only ones though.

Counter-Strike is indeed a popular game. Its the most popular First Person Shooter, but it is not the most popular game in the world for online play. Everquest is. And what is Everquest? An MMORPG. Counter-Strike is also nearly 3 years old which proves further that Xbox is trying to rehash old games and make them seem like they are new.

You would probably say the same about Everquest Adventures for PS2, but it is a brand new game, it has nothing to do with the Everquest(s) for PC.

Most MMO's have over 200,000 subscribers. What is the best selling type of games for any console? RPG. What happens when you combine the 2? You get an MMORPG. Every Final Fantasy has sold over 10 million copies, immagine if even 1/5 of that were to play FFXI. 2 million people.

Sega's online plans are hardly in favor of Xbox. The only online game that Xbox gets that wont be on PS2 is Phantasy Star Online, which is also on Gamecube. All the other games will be online for ps2(Except maybe for an Online Shemnue which is a long ways off). NFL 2kx, NBA 2kx, NHL 2kx and MLB 2kx are all games that will be online for all 3 consoles. PS2 gets Skies of Arcadia online as exclusive as well.

The stories about FFXI japan are indeed true(although they arent really horror stories). Its the first online game for Square so obviously there are going to be a few problems. If you have ever played an MMO from a new company you would know that there are problems in the begining, but those companies learn and things get better. The only problems Square is having are server problems, not gameplay problems. They are rectifying the problems and have already given people free time. By the time FFXI is ready for the U.S., Square will have learned a whole lot and have it ready to go. Sony plays no part in the making or running of FFXI, all they do is secure the game for PS2 among the consoles as an exclusive. Ive seen around 20 reviews of FFXI converted from Japanese to english, all of them gave it high marks and said its a great game. Its one of the most popular games, if not the most popular game in Japan right now.

The "Study" MS did was that 50% of Xbox users have access to broadband, not that they already have broadband. They estimate of those 50%, 10% will use Xbox live, which equals about 400,000. Interestingly enough, 400,000 is only a partial number of people that play everquest(s) for PC.

Just remember though, MS estimated that there would be 8 million Xbox's sold by now, there has only been half that amount sold and the pace hasnt changed since the day it came out, even with massive advertising and a price drop.
[text was edited by author 2002-05-29 03:20:26]

First I'd like to throw a few segments from a couple articles about you beloved everquest.

Popular games such as Sony's "EverQuest" and Electronic Arts' "Ultima" have hundreds of thousands of paying players, generating steady revenue streams envied by other segments of the software business. But the complex fantasy worlds in which the games exist appeal to only a small minority of serious game players, compared with the overall game market.

"The challenge for companies focused on Web-based games is to try to bridge that gap and create a kind of crossover between the casual gamers and the hard-core gamers,"

"I think it's a lot about game design and making it not so intimidating to the casual user. (Role-playing games) typically are games that take a whole lot of time for people to play; most people don't want to devote that much time to a hobby,"

news.com.com/2100-1040-823258.html

Fantasy role-playing titles such as "Ultima Online" and "EverQuest" have already attracted sizeable audiences willing to pay access fees. These games, though, are still considered niche products. For online gaming to really take off, analysts say, publishers need to offer products with mass-market appeal.

news.com.com/2100-1040-922435.html?tag=cd_mh

And those are from an article whom like you think xbox live wont make it. Similar to all the articles at last years E3 that said the xbox wouldnt make it but to be nowhere to be found at this E3.

Now Dont get me wrong I like MMORPG's I just dont think they will ever appeal to the majority of gamers. And while companies will be able to turn a profit on them, I dont think they are going to be the vehicles to take console gaming forward. And no Everquest is not the most popular online game. Did you just make that up becasue you really want to believe it.

More than 5 million copies of Half-life have been purchased and 65% of them have played it online. And of that 65%, 90% of them have played counter-strike. Which equals a little under 3 million people who have played counter-strike. That a little more than the 400,000 everquest subscribers. Now more people may play everquest at one time. But still more people have played counter-strike online than everquest. Oh, and xbox is getting the newer version of counter-strike called condition zero which isnt even out on the PC yet. And yes over 10 million people bought FFVII if 1/5 of those peope bought FFXI that would be 2 million people playing online but that if's and maybe's. Where counter-strike is already doing it.

I also dont get how you figure the most popular games on a console are RPG's. The most popular game on PS2 right now is GTA3 and the most popular game on xbox is Halo. Now granted FF does sell a hell of alot of games but that still gives a false impression. If you look at all the games sold on a console while the top might be a RPG if you add up all the games it wont be an RPG. For example they might have 3 rpg that sell for 15 million combined. But there are 10 platformers that sell for 30 million. The platformers may average 3 million a game while the RPG's aver 5 million but more gamers still have platform games.

Look you may like RPG but they are not the majority of CONSOLE games. And the issue at hand is taking console games online. In order to do that your going to have to appeal to the majority of gamers. And it will be hard to do that with "niche" products. But mario online, sonic online, GTA3 online, Gran tourismo online, Halo online, those types of games are going to be the ones to do it. Not MMORPG's.

Im not trying to say that these games are better, I'm just saying they are appealing to more consumers. Go to best buy and sit in there video game department and ask every one that comes in there about mario, sonic, halo and everquest. See how many of them have even heard of everquest. Especially the ones that dont have computers. Let's face it. Most people arent hardcore gamers. And they are the majority, not us. And there money is what the big companies are after. Because they know they'll get ours regardless.

Oh, and Sega's NHL 2K3 will only be online with the xbox.
gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2868399,00.html

To say that RPG's are not the most popular type of game is just an incorrect statement. When you say "Platform" games, you consider that all games other than RPG's. There are many types of games, theres the traditional: RPG, FPS, Platform(Crash Bandicoot/Mario Type), Action, Adventure, Simulation, and RTS. But when the PSX came along, it gave birth to a whole new breed of game types: Tactical Espionage, Survivor Horror, 3rd Person Shooter and many other types.

Take a second and look at the PSX library of games. If you made a list of the top 10 all time selling games for the system overall, the top 3 are: Final Fantasy 7, Final Fantasy 9 and Final Fantasy 8(worldwide).

The most popular game for PS2(in the U.S.) is not GTA3, it is Final Fantasy X. FFX in the U.S. has sold 6 million copies, GTA3 has sold 4 million.

Online games like mario online, sonic online, GTA3 online, Gran tourismo online, Halo online appeal to people because they see the word "Free" next to online and it triggers a thought that "This game will be awesome". I challenge you to find 1 game that is not an MMO in the entire world that has the content and replay value of a single MMORPG.

Games that have free online play are not policed, not secure and not guaranteed. When you pay $10 a month or whatever fee for an MMO, you are getting Police, Security and Guarantee of a future for the game.

MMO's and RPG's are not the only kind of games I like, I also like FPS, Tactical Espionage(MGS Type), 3rd Person Shooter(Tomb Raider Type) and Survial Horror's(Resident Evil/Silent Hill Style).

Eventually all games will be Pay To Play anyways. Well just have to wait and see how sucessful, if at all, any of the consoles are with online gaming.

BTW: Im not losing any sleep over NHL 2K3 Online.