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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable

Did you get a 6 month thank you letter ? My reply!

I'm just coming up to 6 months on Rogers ... and it's been interesting ... but to honour this occasion, I received a letter quoted in my reply below.

I know a lot of people here think I'm pro-ISP, but I just see what's happening to the industry. That said, there are a lot of things that would make any broadband ISP better, and this reply reflects the things that would make Rogers a lot better.

Stuart
----------------------------

Dear Brad Munro,

>Dear Stuart Brook ,

>Thank you for being a Rogers Hi-Speed customer. You are >among over half a
>million people who enjoy Rogers’ high-speed cable access to >the Internet. And as
>someone who has been enjoying high-speed Cable Internet >access for the last six
>months, you’ll probably agree with many of our other >customers that you’ll never
>go back to dial-up.

Thank you for spamming me.

Thank you for increasing the rate "to include the modem rental" and yet still leave the option open on the bill to include modem rental again at some later date.

Thank you for provisioning my circuit at 1.5Mbits/sec:384K (down:up) speeds when other areas are provisioned at 3Mbits/sec:500K

Thank you for not announcing, but sneakily reporting the new HiSpeed internet speeds on your web site under the comparison between HiSpeed and Lite services, that you were recently provisioning circuits at 1.5/192 One wonders how long it will be before my circuit up load speed will be reduced.

Thank you for messing around with the idea of caps which it is widely reported will be not dissimlar to Sympatico's low caps, with punitive overages.

Thank you for misleading advertising which suggests the use of high bandwidth content and yet without talking about the caps that will severely limit this use.

Thank you for misleading advertising which suggests speeds up to 100 times the speed of dialup, and yet giving a speed under half that. Can you imagine advertising a car that can go 100 MPH and typically only goes 50 ?

Thank you for this misleading letter which suggests that all the broadband content of the internet is availabe with a click, without regard for the cost.

Thank you for not providing a dialup service or affiliating with a dialup service to provide some kind of back up for when HiSpeed is down, or when travelling.

Thank you for a broadband access site that is of no real use to me.

Thank you for not providing a package of 3 IP addresses included like Cogeco.

Thank you for customer support that is very frustrating to deal with (especially by mail) since if it's not an obvious problem you have to fight tooth and nail to get resolution, because they don't read the history of the problem.

Thank you for support that says "if it's down" ... "If it's not back in 24 hours, call us back". I'll admit that's an improvement over the old 48 hours ... but it's still ridiculously long.

Thank you for spamming me with the ad for photolab which you mention again here.

Thank you for "bundles" that are of negligible benefit to most users and are very confusing ... since vip customers on bundles don't get the terminal.

Thank you for outlawing the even temporary use of servers to transfer files between users. While one can understand the need for a limit on open servers like FTP servers, a temporary FTP server up only for the duration of a transfer should be permitted provided the user is within the bit caps. Similarly, Telnet servers should also be permitted, since that is normally a terminal, low bandwidth requirement.

>That’s because, with Cable Internet access, you:

>- Experience high-speed Internet access, which allows you to >do so much more. Fast.
>- Save money because you don’t need a second phone line.
>- Enjoy unlimited access. No watching the clock or paying >for extra hours on-line.
>- It’s easy and convenient because of the instant connection >- no dialing-up or
> logging-on.
>
>We’re committed to continually making the service better for >you. For example, we’ve
>launched a new content site at >http://www.HiSpeed.rogers.com. This site offers the
>ultimate on-line experience by connecting you to the best >broadband content available.
>As a Rogers Hi-Speed customer, you can access this unique >start page, which
>consolidates the best rich media content available on the >Net. Whether it’s movie
>trailers, MP3s, original on-line programming or on-line >games, we put them right at your
>fingertips. Just click and GO!
>
>And that’s not all. With Rogers Hi-Speed you receive more >than an Email address and
>access to the Internet. You get:
>
>- Up to seven Email addresses
>- Access to WebSpace, to create your very own web site
>- Access to your email address via WebMail (from any >internet accessing computer)
>
>Visit »www.HiSpeed.rogers.com and click on Member >Services at the top of the page
>for more information about these services. We also >encourage you to visit our
>customer support site at »rogershelp.com/help/ . At >this site you’ll find
>information about the service, including: on-line user >guides, network news, and contact
>information.
>
>An additional Perk of subscribing to Rogers Hi-Speed is our >teaming up with Photolab to
>provide you with an offer that allows you to turn your >digital images into actual prints.
>Order today and save 20% - that's only $0.39 for each 4x6 >print.
>Click here to go to our unique content site for your Perk!
>http://www.hispeed.rogers.com/perks/index.jsp
>
>Once again, thank you for choosing Rogers Hi-Speed. If we >can be of assistance or if
>you have questions, please contact us at >interaction@rogers.com.
>
>Yours truly,
>
>Brad Munro
>Vice President & General Manager,
>Rogers Hi-Speed

I understand fully the business need for raising rates and bit caps and to a lesser extent for bit rate caps.

If I may offer a suggestion on the matter of bit caps ...

5GB down is too low given the content of the net today.
8GB down would be more reasonable with 2GB up

A 50% "overdraft" amount on down and uploads at a cost of say $2 per GB
above 50% down at a more punitive rate

A 50% "carry forward" of unused bandwidth below the cap for one month only. e.g. I use 4GB this month with an 8GB cap. This permits me a carry forward of 2GB to next month to reducee the "overdraft" charge.

This would permit an underlimit user the occasional overlimit without penalty.

The speed issue is a frustration, and looks like an attempt by Rogers to simply add more people to nodes without splitting the nodes. The bit caps would go a long way already towards solving that problem without the speed cuts.

Overall, I am only just satisfied with Rogers HiSpeed.

I can operate at Lite speeds or dialup speeds (although I don't particularly want to) - but don't kid yourself - as employers would say "You only *think* you're indispensible".

Stuart Brook



paddler64

join:2002-05-07
Nirvana

I will be saving a few of these quotes for future tech support calls;) Curious to see if you get a response...



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to sbrook

Thats funny, I've been a Rogers subscriber since they took over from Shaw in December 2000, and received no such letter, hehe... Don't get me wrong, I'd probably be pissed off as much as you were reading such nonsense... Everything they say is totally reversed, heh.
--
Thanks Leafs for a great season & playoffs.



rAfChOw
Premium
join:2001-03-19
Toronto, ON
reply to sbrook

That's a nice reply. Rogers is obviously hanging around these forums.



datac8
Rogerstech

join:2002-06-08
Toronto, ON
reply to sbrook

As an employee of rogers, here's my 2cents:

1. ever since @home left, the service has been a million times better, and outages rare, most speed issues have been dealt with as well (you can check this forum for the rediculously fast speeds people are posting)

2. most of your letter deals with caps, where, rogers still has none.

3. its a fact of life, but your still getting better then T1 access for less then $50 bux a month, please dont be pissed off while doing it (a T1 by the way costs more than $1500 / mo ... ) now obviously I only make the comparision in loose terms, cable modem access does not provide the consistancy or availability of a T1, and was never designed too.

4. dont give crap to the customer service and tech support folk, were just average people like you, trying to help you... but the quality of service goes down dramatically if your an ass... sorry, fact of life human nature etc.

5. 8GB up and down is reasonable... more is excessive in my view

6. If you want to run a temporary ftp server or telnet server, go ahead... just dont suck gigs of bandwidth and no one will bother you

000end of 2 cents0000

dc.



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable

Re: Did you get a 6 month thank you letter ? My re

I came on board right during the transition so I can't speak for the @home outages ... but generally the service has been good. I know @home mail was dreadful ... I didn't use @home mail, and I barely use @rogers mail, except for sending.

I mention caps because although there are currently no caps, they are in the pipeline as has been stated many times by Rogers execs. I want to make sure that I get my 5c in there before they become a faite accompli like Sympatico!

I understand that I'm getting nearly T1 ... but my complaint, like so many others is that Rogers advertises one thing and delivers another. They advertised 100 times a dial up (referring to 28.8) modem ... Nowhere near on my new connection ... I subsequently learned that they were capping all TeraPro connections at 1.5 Mbits/sec. Now they're starting to limit the upload to 192Kbits/sec from 384 without any announcement other than a comparison of service to Lite!

Then they advertise all the things one can do on Rogers HiSpeed ... like the vet who runs her business on it ... 'scuse me ? Rogers states clearly that it is not a service of sufficient reliablity to operate a business on it. Like the distance schooling; like all the high bandwidth stuff and this with caps knocking on the doorstep!

If you've read my other postings in these fora, you would know that I understand and agree with the business need for data caps. You would also know that I understand that I am not looking for unlimited bandwidth or anything like the service of a T1 ... I know fulwell that this is a residential service.

I don't give crap to customer service. I worked 7 years for a major computer manufacturer doing customer support. I know that job all too well. BUT I really get upset with responses that show that the reader only picked a keyword and generated a canned response based on one word out of the whole message, and missed the whole point of the message. Phone support is not so bad, but there are things I am not going to do, like install Outlook express, or reinstall windoze because the line is broken. I will work with support and try to educate them as much as they help me.

Well, you say that about temp. servers ... but people HAVE been disconnected first, asked questions later for just that kind of activity.

Stuart


Bobby12344

join:2002-01-22
North Bay, ON
reply to sbrook

Re: Did you get a 6 month thank you letter ? My reply!

Oh No!!! you mean the guys in the add dept embelish a little with what they say you can get with the speeds!! Who would have thought that someone marketing a product would do this..... come on guys get real they state up to 100x's that of 28.8 not that it is 100x's or that you will run at this speed everyday all day long, maybe you dont remember what dial up was like? when downloading an mp3 took 20-30 min or longer, high speed is a lot faster than that. Ive said it before and I'll say it again if you want to complain about the cost of the service look at what high speed isp's in the U.S are charging for a connection thats not even close to the speeds offered up here 21.95 gets you a "lite" type of connection and you still have to pay a local isp to connect.

256K/Up to 256K Use for fast web surfing, e-mail and downloading moderate-size files.

$21.95 (Does not include ISP)
if Rogers/Cogeco/Bell/Shaw want to charge 80.00 per month for the connection all you have to look at is how many movies you just downloaded or how many burnt cd's you have to justify paying this much. Stop complaining... if your going to play your going to pay it's just who is going to get the money your isp or a record/movie/software/game company.


unthread3

join:2002-06-04
Toronto, ON

Re: Did you get a 6 month thank you letter ? My re

agreed on all counts.
justified complaints are fine, but most of this stuff is a little excessive.



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to Bobby12344

Why don't you read before you make an ass of yourself with replies like this ?

I don't download movies, I don't download MP3s, I don't play bandwidth gobbling online games. Hell, I've never exceeded 5GB total bandwidth per month, and have used only 9GB in 5 months!

What am I complaining about ? Misrepresentation and lack of honest communication.

Let me sell you a car ... I sell it as capable of up to 100 mph, but, guess what, it only does 40 mph top. You later discover that I put a governor on the car such that it can only go 50 mph top anyway. I say "But I said it's capable of UP TO 100 mph, I didn't say it would do that". You'd have me to court in no time if I then offered for sale an upgraded version of the car that I sell as doing 120 mph simply by removing the governor!

This is called misrepresentation, and were it not for a "we can do what the hell we like Terms of Service", they couldn't get away with this.

Even the new upload speed cap of 192kbits/sec has not been formally announced to users ... but it's happening.

I welcome reasonable caps (which to me isn't really a lot higher than the 5GB Sympatico cap!) but I get really upset at a company misrepresenting its products.



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to Bobby12344

said by Bobby1234:

Ive said it before and I'll say it again if you want to complain about the cost of the service look at what high speed isp's in the U.S are charging for a connection thats not even close to the speeds offered up here 21.95 gets you a "lite" type of connection and you still have to pay a local isp to connect.

Who's complaining about the cost ? Clearly you didn't read, you just saw another complaining post and went on your own "anti-complainers" rant whether the complaints originally expressed were justified or not.

US Broadband operators are charging very *comparably* to Canadians ... Remember that not only do they pay in US$, they also earn US$, so exchange rates do not apply.

You don't also have to pay a local ISP ! Where did you get that gem ? You are free to pick an ISP that operates hispeed service who operates in your LATA ... just like here. The total price whether you use the Telco and an ISP for DSL, or whether use use Cable, the prices are all comparable.


datac8
Rogerstech

join:2002-06-08
Toronto, ON
reply to sbrook

Re: Did you get a 6 month thank you letter ? My reply!

hey stuart,

I here where your coming from and agree on some points... but the bottom line is still: your getting a good service at a good price, with good support... yes the marketing people are dolts but thats the case in all companies, its not a rogers specific problem. as for the advertising, i dont believe the "100x dialup" line has been used for some time, in fact there is no promise of any speed, just that its fast and will blow you away if your used to dial up, which i think we all agree is true.

anyway, if you are interested, you should print out your letter, address it to Ted Rogers or any of the other senior staff (get the names from the investors site rogers.com) and mail it...for more impact, courier it. See what happens.....

dc.



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable

Re: Did you get a 6 month thank you letter ? My re

Actually, the last time I heard 100 times was about a month ago.

My line was capped at 1.5 when it was installed in December and that was still the ad du jour. Clearly the intent to cap the Terayon segments was in place at that time. And there's no doubt about it, with the TeraPro systems, the bit rate caps make sense because of the technical specs of TeraLink systems, and the goal is clearly to get a few more users on a node and to decrease the load on any given node with its bandwidth requirements.

It was very frustrating to be told by support that I was going as fast as was technically possible and yet, I was the only user on my node! (Recently commissioned). What the tech support folks refused to tell me was that I was capped.



datac8
Rogerstech

join:2002-06-08
Toronto, ON
reply to sbrook

Re: Did you get a 6 month thank you letter ? My reply!

Well they should have told you...but as you undoubtedly know, all cable modems are capped... hi or lo, thats a different story, but even at 3mbs they were capped.

anyway, i think i've made my views clear, but if theres anyway i could help you i would

just chill and surf...and thank god your not on dialup

dc.



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable

Re: Did you get a 6 month thank you letter ? My re

Uhhh ... well, let's put it this way ... the use I put the service to, it would not be a disaster to go back to Dialup ... a pain yes ... a disaster, no. As I said in the original response to whats'is'name .. Never think you're indispensible! That was proven to me through layoffs from a major computer manufacturer now a figment of ones memory. Even if you personally make them gobs of money, that doesn't matter.

Well, some of your competitors don't cap their modems ... they let 'em run flat out on some nodes ... so you get people reporting speeds on 7Mbits and more.

I just get rubbed the wrong way by misleading advertising and condescending letters that perpetuate the misleading advertising.

Stuart



dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

said by sbrook:
I just get rubbed the wrong way by misleading advertising and condescending letters that perpetuate the misleading advertising.

Stuart
welcome to the real world.

get comfortable with phrases like: "as low as...", "starting from...", and "...up to..."

it's all part of advertising and marketing, and if you haven't figured these lines out since you were 12 years old, you must be from a very small town.
--
Better. Faster. First.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable

With "Starting from", and "As low as", I see the minimums ... and expect it to be higher, and potentially much higher.

With "Up to", you are led to expect something in the "up to" ballpark ... not 40% of what's quoted.

I am not so naive as to believe that the technology often doesn't permit the "up to" speeds ... this stuff has been a part of my business for the last 26 years. What really rubs in that regard is saying one thing, and DELIBERATELY delivering something else - not just limited by technology. It verges on bait and switch, were it a physical product.

As if this isn't bad enough, it really looks today like I've been capped now at about 796K down ... hard. Everything downloads hard at that speed max ... used to get up to 1.2



dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

said by sbrook:
With "Up to", you are led to expect something in the "up to" ballpark ... not 40% of what's quoted.
rogers has been like that in most areas for the last few years.

quote:
As if this isn't bad enough, it really looks today like I've been capped now at about 796K down ... hard. Everything downloads hard at that speed max ... used to get up to 1.2
EEWWWWW!!!!...that's lower speeds than my HSE service.
--
Better. Faster. First.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

reply to sbrook

said by sbrook:
With "Up to", you are led to expect something in the "up to" ballpark ... not 40% of what's quoted.

i agree with you on this one. that is why i like my HSE service..i pay for 960/135 and always get in the "ballpark" of what i pay for:

2002-05-29 00:07:25 (www.chi.speakeasy.net) 984/135 kbps
2002-05-29 00:06:44 (www.bos.speakeasy.net) 978/136 kbps
2002-05-29 00:06:02 (www.nyc.speakeasy.net) 978/135 kbps
2002-05-29 00:04:52 (www.nyc.speakeasy.net) 980/135 kbps
2002-05-23 00:22:53 (www.nyc.speakeasy.net) 978/136 kbps
2002-05-19 00:17:22 (www.chi.speakeasy.net) 966/135 kbps
2002-05-19 00:16:38 (www.bos.speakeasy.net) 978/130 kbps
2002-05-19 00:15:32 (www.bos.speakeasy.net) 935/132 kbps
2002-05-19 00:14:00 (www.nyc.speakeasy.net) 974/136 kbps
2002-05-14 23:15:48 (www.nyc.speakeasy.net) 965/135 kbps
2002-05-14 23:11:50 (www.bos.speakeasy.net) 977/135 kbps
2002-05-07 00:42:13 (nyc.speakeasy.net) 978/135 kbps
2002-05-07 00:40:54 (chi.speakeasy.net) 984/135 kbps
2002-05-06 23:39:32 (chi.speakeasy.net) 985/135 kbps
2002-05-03 23:06:36 Speed test (la) 943/135 kbps
2002-05-03 23:05:48 Speed test (wc) 951/136 kbps
2002-04-25 15:08:49 Speed test (wc) 852/135 kbps
2002-04-17 17:38:17 Speed test (wc) 947/135 kbps
--
Better. Faster. First.

[text was edited by author 2002-06-11 20:43:53]


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable

said by dirtyjeffer:
said by sbrook:
With "Up to", you are led to expect something in the "up to" ballpark ... not 40% of what's quoted.

i agree with you on this one. that is why i like my HSE service..i pay for 960/135 and always get in the "ballpark" of what i pay for:

Unfortunately, I live in an area where our phone exchange is not digital, although computerized, and as if that's not enough, we're on a satellite of that exchange. No DSL anywhere within 10 km of here. At least a 56K modem runs at 48K on this satellite instead of where I last lived where flat out max speed was 26.4!

Stuart


emmpeethree
Twizzling Flagella
Premium
join:2001-04-13
Richmond, BC
reply to sbrook

Re: Did you get a 6 month thank you letter ? My reply!

different caps depending on location?

that's rediculous

that's just like charging extra if dsl isn't available in your area just because... what else are you going to get?

i agree with both sides on certain points

1) i don't think your letter will get you anywhere, although i do find it amusing

2) i don't think that rogers should be capping different areas at different speeds (shaw provides faster service in the "more diserable" part of vancouver)
--
i gave up my 5000/480 connection because it had a 6/2 limit. now cruising away with unlimited transfer on a 128/64 line!



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable

Re: Did you get a 6 month thank you letter ? My re

I suspect it's a result of a rolling phase in of network standards ... remember that some Rogers areas were Shaw and other cable operators and as such they'd invested in other technologies, so changing them all over is a slow process.

I think my limit is a mistake on someone's part.

Stuart