 dobie0
join:2000-06-22
Englewood, CO | Microsoft Wasn't there a post about Microsoft buying northpoint a while back? It wouldn't very look good for MSN's dsl service to go under. |
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It wouldn't very look good for MSN's dsl service to go under.
On the other hand: it would do Microsoft no good to buy a losing proposition just to save that one, small segment of their business.
If Microsoft bought Northpoint, the very first thing that would happen is that many Northpoint-connected customers would be looking to switch DCLECs. I'm one of them. Why? Because we know that Microsoft would want ultimately to run the thing the only way Microsoft knows how to do business: Microsoft-centric. Those of us who neither have nor need nor want Microsoft products know just what that means: hostile to anything not-of-Microsoft.
Just look at the way MSN DSL is run. You get a box that connects you. Never mind how it's set up, more importantly: you have no control over it nor access to it. No even semi-intelligent IT professional with half a clue is going to allow something like that on his/her LAN. Yeah, you could firewall it, maybe. (Wouldn't surprise me to see M$ try to rig a way to prevent that.) But I can't imagine any clueful IT professional trusting their 'net connectivity to Microsoft anyway.
So even in it's existing condition, Northpoint's ability to make money is questionable, at best. What do you suppose a mass-exodus of customers would do to an already shaky operation?
And in case nobody's figured it out yet: it's SOHO and business that's where the money's to be made by independents in DSL. The ILECs will end up owning the residential (consumer-grade) DSL market. The independents can't compete on price. And consumer-grade customers are generally more interested in price than quality. OTOH: the ILECs are notoriously poor at quality and service. So there's the niche for the independents: business customers. The very same people that are most likely to be leery of a M$-run operation.
I don't think M$ will bite on this one. But if they do, I'll be gone before the ink's dry on the contract.
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Jim Seymour & Karel the Computer Cat
Agents Provocateurs Extraordinaire
Note new address |
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| reply to dobie0
I suspect that Microsoft would do a fine job of administering Northpoint. And you'd still be working through your ISP. What is unclear to me is why Microsoft would they could make a profit running Northpoint when Northpoint couldn't make a profit on its own. |
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I suspect that Microsoft would do a fine job of administering Northpoint.
I suspect Microsoft would ultimately turn it into MSDSL.
And you'd still be working through your ISP.
Providing your ISP was willing to convert to Windows Everywhere.
And providing you weren't running any non-M$ products.
All one need do to figure out the ultimate destiny of such a scenario is look at anything taken over by Microsoft. They either converted it to the One Microsoft Way or killed it off. Or first converted it, then killed it off.
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Jim Seymour & Karel the Computer Cat
Agents Provocateurs Extraordinaire
Note new address |
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| said by jseymour:
All one need do to figure out the ultimate destiny of such a scenario is look at anything taken over by Microsoft. They either converted it to the One Microsoft Way or killed it off. Or first converted it, then killed it off.
Well, that's just not true. As just one example, consider http://www.microsoft.com/mac/ .
And DSL doesn't work that way -- it is not OS dependent. |
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| In theory it isnt, but what is they start doing MS only PPPoE type stuff. Or only specific browsers that will work with the service. |
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| reply to dsl_boy1
Well, that's just not true. As just one example, consider www.microsoft.com/mac/.
Microsoft does not own Apple. I don't believe they have any more than a minority investment in the firm.
For a more realistic view of what Microsoft's really like: check The (Nearly) Whole Microsoft Catalog.
And DSL doesn't work that way -- it is not OS dependent.
The CLEC determines what equipment connects you to that DSL line. They can mandate whatever they want. And that thing can, in turn, mandate whatever it wants.
Look at the MSN forum and tell me that's what you want for DSL. It certain ain't what I want!
--
Jim Seymour & Karel the Computer Cat
Agents Provocateurs Extraordinaire
Note new address |
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| said by jseymour:
Microsoft does not own Apple. I don't believe they have any more than a minority investment in the firm.
My point exactly. Yet they continue to support this non-Microsoft platform. |
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My point exactly. Yet they continue to support this non-Microsoft platform.
Apple's existence has long been used by Microsoft in exactly the same way you have: to point to why Microsoft "is not a monopoly" and how Microsoft "supports other operating systems." It's all nonsense, of course. Microsoft continues to support the Mac (and only nominally) for one simple reason: if Apple falls, it then becomes impossible for even Microsoft to claim they don't have an effective monopoly on the personal computer market. During Apple's darkest days (to date!), M$ even invested in Apple to keep it afloat. M$ is blessed in this situation. They can support Apple, thus avoiding the appearance of a monopoly--at least in some folks' eyes, while at the same time not having to worry about Apple ever becoming a serious threat to Microsoft's own business. Apples' historical and consistent ineptitude will see to that.
You will not see M$ support for Unix or Linux. Need I explain the many reasons why?
Want more examples of the "M$ Effect?" There are a ton of 'em. For example: that on-line gaming site M$ bought. Or WebTV. But rather than me repeating them here, why don't you try visiting that URL I referenced and find out for yourself?
It is my sincere believe that, should Microsoft end up owning NorthPoint, "MSDSL" will result. Tho, given Microsoft's love of the letter "X" of late, they'll probably try to appropriate "xDSL" and trademark it.
The question is, "dsl_boy", are you subscribed to Microsoft's DSL? If not, why not?
--
Jim Seymour & Karel the Computer Cat
Agents Provocateurs Extraordinaire
Note new address |
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| said by jseymour:
The question is, "dsl_boy", are you subscribed to Microsoft's DSL? If not, why not?
No, I'm not a subscriber of Microsoft's. However I'm not paranoid about them either. Microsoft can't enforce Windows only usage of DSL anymore than Verizon can enforce English only spoken on its phone lines.
What I do subscribe to is Megapath over Northpoint. Megapath has announced no actions whatsoever to prepare their customer base for a possible Northpoint shutdown. Based on their disaster handling the Phoenix takeover, I'm pretty sure that we are facing a real mess if Northpoint terminates service. I actually hope that Microsoft takes over Northpoint -- at least Microsoft could keep them alive (and only a company with lots of patience and enormous resources could make Northpoint's model work.)
The only public statement that Megapath has made is reprinting Northpoint's press release on a link off their home page (and, if you scroll to the bottom, you'll notice they claim to have copyrighted that press release in the year 2000. Oh well.)
Jseymour has been extremely vocal in his support of Megapath's handling of Phoenix and equally vocal in his criticism of Microsoft. I hope he can find a more moderate, and more accurate stance -- that Megapath was ill prepared for the Phoenix takeover and that Microsoft has exceptional resources that could help a company as poorly run as Northpoint. |
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No, I'm not a subscriber of Microsoft's.
Hmph.
However I'm not paranoid about them either.
Those who do not [know] the past...
Microsoft can't enforce Windows only usage of DSL...
You underestimate Microsoft's inventiveness, I think.
What I do subscribe to is Megapath over Northpoint. Megapath has announced no actions...
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The only public statement that Megapath has made...
Non sequitur.
Jseymour has been extremely vocal in his support of Megapath's handling of Phoenix...
Which also has no bearing on this discussion.
... and equally vocal in his criticism of Microsoft.
You have yet to actually counter with substantive arguments as to why I should not be critical of Microsoft. Why I should not be concerned about the prospect of an MS-NorthPoint.
--
Jim Seymour & Karel the Computer Cat
Agents Provocateurs Extraordinaire
Note new address |
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 RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY | reply to dsl_boy1
said by dsl_boy:
said by jseymour:
All one need do to figure out the ultimate destiny of such a scenario is look at anything taken over by Microsoft. They either converted it to the One Microsoft Way or killed it off. Or first converted it, then killed it off.
Well, that's just not true. As just one example, consider http://www.microsoft.com/mac/ .
And DSL doesn't work that way -- it is not OS dependent.
I'm a Mac User (as my Avatar implies  ) and I can say that the support that Microsoft offers to the Mac Users is as minimal as they can get away with and still claim to "support" the Apple Platform. As proof of this just look at a feature by feature comparison of supposedly Cross Platform Programs such as Outlook Express (their News and Email Client) which is part of the Office Products. Microsoft has just released Office 2001 for Mac yet there are features have been in OE for Windows for years that still are not there in the Mac Version. For example, it has no support for vCards, Email Receipts, and other usability features.
In addition, even though the Macintosh system uses a different set of maps for the high-ASCII code (x80-xFF) mapping to ISO-8859-1 in the x80-x9F range [which exist in ISO-8859-1 as control characters like x00-x1F not as glyphs/characters] from the Windows mappings, the Mac Version still claims that the mapping is ISO-8859-1 not the honest CHARSET of CP-1252 even when x80-x9F codes exist in the message (CP-1252 maps one-for-one with ISO-8859-1 in the xA0-xFF ranges for both MacOS and Windows mappings so either cp-1252 or ISO-8859-1 is accurate in the absence of x80-x9F codes). I do not even think that the program will translate an incoming message labeled as CP-1252 correctly in that range (it either does not support it at all or treats it as Mac-Latin1 [the Mac ISO-8859-1 mappings]).
There are a number of other cases were the Mac version of a Cross-Platform program is feature deficient in comparison with the equivalent Windows versions of the "same" program. Most of these are NOT due to lack of functionality in MacOS but due to Microsoft's policy of never delivering a feature compatible/equivalent (as opposed to only a feature subset) version for the Mac Platform. |
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| reply to jseymour8
said by jseymour:
You have yet to actually counter with substantive arguments as to why I should not be critical of Microsoft. Why I should not be concerned about the prospect of an MS-NorthPoint.
You should think whatever you want jseymour. Maybe Microsoft will deploy a secret police force to make sure you are running Windows on your computers. Maybe having no CLECs is better than having one funded by Microsoft. Maybe your local phone company really will magically turn into a wonderful fount of excellent customer service once their last DSL competition is eliminated.
However, in reviewing your posts, I failed to detect the "substantive arguments" you mention above. Sure, you like to abbreviate Microsoft as M$, but I don't see that as a "substantive argument". In re-reading your posts on the subject, he closest thing you have to a "substantive argument" seems to be summarized by this assertion:
said by jseymour:
All one need do to figure out the ultimate destiny of such a scenario is look at anything taken over by Microsoft. They either converted it to the One Microsoft Way or killed it off. Or first converted it, then killed it off.
Now, let me spell out my counter-arguments (and here I am repeating myself since you had some trouble understanding my previous posts):
(1) That has not always happened (it didn't happen with Apple, for example.)
(2) A CLEC doesn't know which OS you are running or how you are running it.
(3) Service is still provided by ISPs which are independent of Microsoft.
I hope this clears things up. |
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| reply to jseymour8
said by jseymour:
The question is, "dsl_boy", are you subscribed to Microsoft's DSL? If not, why not?
I answered in detail, that I was a subscriber of Megapath over Northpoint, and then explained my concerns and why I would like Microsoft to take Northpoint over rather than let Northpoint die. Whereupon, my response was graded as:
said by jseymour:
Non sequitur.
Thanks for sharing.
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