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VindictiV
Pebkac Error
Premium
join:2001-11-27
Burlington, ON

1 recommendation

reply to HiVolt

Re: Rogers' highest tier to be 3000/384

I wouldnt go so far as to say amazing to excellent.

Lowering the caps and charging more without any notification to the customer is just bad. Bad in practice, and bad in the implementation.

To compare Rogers to other ISP's that are worse does not absolve Rogers of fault. Your argument basically says they are the best because they suck the least out of this group of selected ISP's. Not a very strong argument really. It still means they suck.. just that they dont suck as much.
So, the bottom line is you are telling everyone to accept that they suck, and accept that the service level and business tactics used are great because someone else does it worse?

Two turds side by side, one is runny and the other is firm.. the amazing wonder turd is the firm one!
Nice.

I understand bandwidth usage caps. I think they should be in place. The lowering of the modem cap I think is BS, especially with a price increase; and further to that without any notification hoping noone would notice.
There is 'what is legal' and 'what is ethical', and I think the ethical path has been tredded on here.

That all said Ive defended Rogers in the past and will continue to do so where warranted. My service has been really good since Ive had it.
However, I dont think lowering the modem cap AND implementing a usage cap are both necessary. Some genius thinks 500k is ok to take off now.. then next year it'll be another 256k.. then another 256k.. hell no one will notice.

I work for a cable ISP, but the opinions I have here are as a Rogers customer. Usage caps ok.. it'll curb the users that are congesting the network. To limit the modem cap is bad business in my thinking. The battle between short term thinking and long term business strategy got muffed here.
Short term thinkers like how the numbers look and the money they saved by cutting the caps. The long term thinkers would know this impacts the company image and has more far reaching consequences on their customer base.
It is so much easier to keep a customer than to get a new one.. something many companys seem to forget.
--
There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people. - Dogbert


Uriel3

join:2001-11-26
said by VindictiV:
....Some genius thinks 500k is ok to take off now.. then next year it'll be another 256k.. then another 256k.. hell no one will notice.... Usage caps ok.. it'll curb the users that are congesting the network...The battle between short term thinking and long term business strategy got muffed here. Short term thinkers like how the numbers look and the money they saved by cutting the caps. The long term thinkers would know this impacts the company image and has more far reaching consequences on their customer base.
It is so much easier to keep a customer than to get a new one.. something many companys seem to forget.
I couldn't agree more. Too many companies take their regular customers for granted because of complacency and Roger's is no exception. Whenever these companies i.e. Bell Sympatico, Roger's advertises a promo such as free hook-ups with 6 months at half price they never consider throwing even a small crumb to their long term loyal customers who in the final analyses are responsible for their base planning without which all their planning strategies would fly out the window. No wonder the mounting animosity and lack of appreciation coupled with lack of vision are taking its toll.


Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Bright House
said by Uriel:

I couldn't agree more. Too many companies take their regular customers for granted because of complacency and Roger's is no exception. Whenever these companies i.e. Bell Sympatico, Roger's advertises a promo such as free hook-ups with 6 months at half price they never consider throwing even a small crumb to their long term loyal customers who in the final analyses are responsible for their base planning without which all their planning strategies would fly out the window. No wonder the mounting animosity and lack of appreciation coupled with lack of vision are taking its toll.
Unfortunatly, part of this problem lies on the consumer themselfs. Canadians as a whole don't really stand up for themselfs, take an issue ask a bunch of people on the street and the answer your more then likely to get is "they know what's best" or "as long as it doesn't affect me".

It's rather sad to be true all in all, and most business knows this and will do whatever they can to rake it as much money with as little expendature as possible.

We who write in these forums are a small minority, as such a small minority unless we can cause the rest out there to wake up will get stuck with the same poor conditions as the rest of the people. Or continue to get the shaft because business knows it can get away with it.

Some of you will probbly think I'm anti-canadian or something, but think and ask youselfs...what I said, is it not true?

Constructive flames are welcome.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
said by Mashiki:
Unfortunatly, part of this problem lies on the consumer themselfs. Canadians as a whole don't really stand up for themselfs, take an issue ask a bunch of people on the street and the answer your more then likely to get is "they know what's best" or "as long as it doesn't affect me".

It's rather sad to be true all in all, and most business knows this and will do whatever they can to rake it as much money with as little expendature as possible.

We who write in these forums are a small minority, as such a small minority unless we can cause the rest out there to wake up will get stuck with the same poor conditions as the rest of the people. Or continue to get the shaft because business knows it can get away with it.

Some of you will probbly think I'm anti-canadian or something, but think and ask youselfs...what I said, is it not true?

Constructive flames are welcome.
I agree with you, this country is far too diverse culturally for people to stick together to stand up to these companies. Look what happens in Europe when things don't go right. People park their freakin tractors on highways and that's all, no traffic allowed. This happened in England at the height of the gas price crisis. Or when the entire country (or most of it) refused to buy gas in one day, i forget which country that was. Government quickly calculated its losses in only that ONE day, and the prices were dropped. Here, nobody cares to stand up for their rights.
--
Crunch for Team Discovery!
Also visit www.ihaterogers.ca


VindictiV
Pebkac Error
Premium
join:2001-11-27
Burlington, ON
reply to HiVolt
Well the good part is I am in a position to voice my opinions and have them constructively listened to where I work, which benefits our customers. It doesnt help myself as a user though because I am not in my own service area.

I will say this though; company's dont do this sort of thing on a whim. Someone or some group of people has drawn attention to themselves and the best way to protect themselves is to prevent instead of enforce. Its easier and more cost effective to do that.
We blocked port 25 on resi cable modems for the same reason; too many people getting our mail servers blacklisted because they were running open relays. I cant keep having our mail servers blacklisted, so we blocked the inbound port on the modem. Problem solved.

In this case I think some people have been using extraordinary amounts of bandwidth, constantly. The ISP would rather put them on a leash instead of punishing them after they do something wrong.

So, business wise I understand it the motivations; but I dont totally agree messing with the bandwidth caps (not usage caps) was the way to go. To each their own I guess.
--
There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people. - Dogbert


shaner
Premium
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB
reply to Mashiki
said by Mashiki:
Unfortunatly, part of this problem lies on the consumer themselfs. Canadians as a whole don't really stand up for themselfs, take an issue ask a bunch of people on the street and the answer your more then likely to get is "they know what's best" or "as long as it doesn't affect me".

You're right, but I think the vast majority of Canadians just don't give a rat's ass about this kind of stuff. It's the kind of stuff "hackers" would only care about, not me. I just don't think people care about caps one way or another.
--
I got my Sympatico HSE in a London box. Where did yours come from?


Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Bright House
said by shaner:
You're right, but I think the vast majority of Canadians just don't give a rat's ass about this kind of stuff. It's the kind of stuff "hackers" would only care about, not me. I just don't think people care about caps one way or another.

That's a very good point, too bad people would be shocked what "hacker" really means. I mean some of the best software engineers are hackers, even o'l Bill G. is still considered one of the best hackers in the world.

The limited sucess in changing how the news world uses hacker, script kiddie, cracker, ect has not spread beyond the use of my local newspaper and the local news channel.

illusionis

join:2002-07-03
Canada
Bah, why make a difference? There's only two categories, the elite, and the non-elite.

hotzet

join:2002-07-28
Ottawa, ON
reply to shaner
Remember: if you have one of Rogers techs come to your house for an install/whatever, MAKE SURE you INSIST that you ALWAYS keep ALL power, Ethernet and coax cables. Maybe their service people are trained in deadly arts... God knows most aren't trained for broadband issues or customer support!


algeranon

@mindspring.com
reply to HiVolt

Are you ready for the hole-buster ?

Is there a cost to downgrade my Hi-Speed service to the Hi-Speed Lite service ?

Description
Cost of downgrading to Rogers Hi-Speed Lite.

Answer
Yes, there is a $50 downgrade fee for Rogers Hi-Speed Internet customers downgrading to Rogers Hi-Speed Lite.

well, you do want to be able to access that new connection don't you... of course you do... that will require an additional fee!


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
It was said at the RBUA meeting with Rogers that the $50 fee for downgrading to Lite has been waived, probably due to overwhelming complaints...


BliZZardX
Premium
join:2002-08-18
Toronto, ON
reply to HiVolt

Re: Rogers' highest tier to be 3000/384

I WANT TED ROGERS TO READ THIS DAMN THREAD! DAMMIT!


BliZZardX
Premium
join:2002-08-18
Toronto, ON

reply to illusionis
said by illusionis:
said by HiVolt:

Indeed it is, that's why I switched to Cable 4 years ago. My beef is just that I've seen the service quality degrade so much, speed reduced, sneaky tactics to raise prices, unprofessional tech support, I'm just a little bit fed up with Rogers.

However, since it is still the best service out there, there really isn't any reasont to complain. I've seen ISP's sucker newer users to pay $35 a month for dial-up... why don't you complain about that instead?
Now if I used the internet for just e-mail and surfing... F!@* cable, I'll go back to 56k!

BUT CABLE WAS MEANT TO BE USED LIKE THIS! WITH MILLIONS OF USERS ONLINE SIMULTANEOUSLY! DOWNLOADING AND UPLOADING DATA EVERY SINGLE SECOND! IF THEIR STUPID NETWORKS CAN'T SUPPORT IT, THEY OBVIOUSLY CAN'T RUN AN ISP!

Something like each street is limited to 45mbps. If your neighbour watches TV, it slows down your connection by a few kbps... but if they are surfing off the same pipe, it'll really affect you. Cable is a noisy technology, but also a very fast one if it can be run properly...

Now answer this... Roadrunner Cable / AOL Time Warner (U.S ISPs) can support 3megs down and 900kbps upload. They pay the same amount that we do with the difference of currency.... But they don't seem to have any probs... What's the problem with Rogers?
[text was edited by author 2002-08-29 23:58:59]


BliZZardX
Premium
join:2002-08-18
Toronto, ON
reply to Mashiki
said by Mashiki:
said by shaner:
You're right, but I think the vast majority of Canadians just don't give a rat's ass about this kind of stuff. It's the kind of stuff "hackers" would only care about, not me. I just don't think people care about caps one way or another.

That's a very good point, too bad people would be shocked what "hacker" really means. I mean some of the best software engineers are hackers, even o'l Bill G. is still considered one of the best hackers in the world.

The limited sucess in changing how the news world uses hacker, script kiddie, cracker, ect has not spread beyond the use of my local newspaper and the local news channel.
hacking is basically programming / modifying things... like tweaking...

what most people know "hacking" as is cracking - people who break into systems etc..


daytrader50$

join:2002-08-13
reply to HiVolt
You think you got bad caps down here int the USA our caps are at 1.5 megs down and 128k up. I'm on Comcast and they once had a nice 3megs down and 256k up. Uped there prices and lowered there caps. At least this isn't happening int the USA.


Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Bright House
reply to BliZZardX
said by zInfinity_:

hacking is basically programming / modifying things... like tweaking...

what most people know "hacking" as is cracking - people who break into systems etc..
Yes isn't that exactly what I said?


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile

1 recommendation

reply to BliZZardX
said by zinfinity:

BUT CABLE WAS MEANT TO BE USED LIKE THIS! WITH MILLIONS OF USERS ONLINE SIMULTANEOUSLY! DOWNLOADING AND UPLOADING DATA EVERY SINGLE SECOND! IF THEIR STUPID NETWORKS CAN'T SUPPORT IT, THEY OBVIOUSLY CAN'T RUN AN ISP!

Wrong.

Cable was not designed to be used like that at all! Broadband on Cable was based on an enhanced dialup model of about 5-10 years old where there wasn't all the rich content we see today. It was intended predominantly for browsing and mail and the odd bit of rich content.

To be economically viable at sub $50, an ISP, whether dialup or broadband, must oversell his capacity on the basis that not everyone on the system is going to be active all at the same time. This is the very reason for the speed throttling, and the data caps to come.

If you want a network in which you can upload and download constantly every minute of every day, especially at broadband speeds, then you need at least T1 capability. A T1 will cost you in the ballpark of $1000 per month, plus line rental charges from your telco - maybe $1500 per month.

So, your $50 cable connection which can provide peak performance near T1 capability has to be oversold at least 20 times. (We'll include your line rental as a part of the cost of providing TV).

Now given that you're overselling at least 20:1, that means that you can't possibly give a consistently high service level to everyone simultaneously. You want higher service standards, you have to pay for it. I wish there was a way to pay for higher standards from a cable operator ... but for now, there isn't.


BliZZardX
Premium
join:2002-08-18
Toronto, ON

... whatever, the infastructure is still able to handle all that bandwidth.

Imagine... 6 years ago, you get 10mbps for $39.95 / month.. then today, you get 1.5mbps for $55.95 / month... You call that fair?

Now... I don't know what you think of this.. but I call it being ripped off. You can't advertise a speed one year and change it the next without notifying your customers. And the speeds changed dramatically... from 10mbps to 1.5 megs in 4 years is mind boggling!

They said last year, "100x faster than conventional dial up service" .. So yes, that was around 3-4 megs.. but now were here, a year later, and they still say the same thing, whereas the speeds are NO WHERE near it. Then not to mention how many people have the problem with their modems disconnecting... They SERIOUSLY have to improve their service, and seeing you're not one of their customers, you have no say in this..
[text was edited by author 2002-08-30 22:51:51]