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jimeez
Heads Are Empty
Premium
join:2002-04-28
Mount Holly Springs, PA
Reviews:
·Vonage
reply to Wildcatboy

Re: Forum rules, reminder, changes, updates, ...

I like what you have done, Wildcatboy! As a moderator of a different message board, I share your feelings. This place has been an invaluable resource for me. I thank all of you! Sifting through people's unsolicited "opinions" and flames is a hassle everywhere. =]
Now. Without getting flamed myself, could someone be so kind as to explain what in the world is a script kiddie? .......please excuse my ignorance



dja
The 'd' is silent ... unlike the member.
Premium
join:2002-03-25
Niagara

said by jimeez:
could someone be so kind as to explain what in the world is a script kiddie?
Yes.
At the risk of you hijacking this thread,
and me posting off-topic.

It could be anyone of any age
who codes and or distributes
worms, trojans, and virii.
However, it most often refers
to a teenage mal-content.
--
Click HERE for the newsletter COGECO won't let you read!

unix_warrior

join:2002-09-11
ca
reply to Randy Bell

some mac questions too, but the forum represents the larger community of personal computer users, in which windows is the majority..

How do you guys survive it? I had to install Windows 2000 on Friday
because I needed to download and burn some ISO's with Nero win2k
service pack 3 said 90 minutes when it started wow that's huge.......
I haven't used Windows in ages but they changed the update sight
everything looks different. I'm back to using Linux



nozero
Eschew Obfuscation
Premium,MVM,ExMod 2003-06
join:1999-12-29
InnerSanctum
kudos:3
reply to Wildcatboy

You do a great job here in this forum and I agree that there is ALWAYS room for improvement. As Oat Willie said, "Onward through the fog"!!! Keep on keeping on...



Wildcatboy
Invisible
Premium,Mod
join:2000-10-30
Toronto, ON
kudos:3


1 recommendation

reply to Wildcatboy


I'd like to thank you all for your responses and support. The forum looks much better already and I'm confident you can make it better. A few last comments before I close this thread so it doesn't get annoying in people's favourite list:

unix_warrior,
Yes this forum is open to all Security related issues and all platforms, some however get fewer responses than others due to the high percentage of Windows users in this forum.

Suggestion to you and everyone else:

If you like to hear more discussions related to the OS you use, bring it up more often. The more *Nix or MAC related issues asked the more chances you get to attract *NIX and MAC users to this forum. After all if Experts in MAC or *NIX feel useful in this forum they will no doubt hang around more often. As I said before the quality of this forum is all about who you attract to this forum. So if you are interested to see more of something, bring it up more often. Learn about it somewhere else and share it with others in this forum and encourage discussions. Bring other friends who know about those issues to this forum and start a few discussions about the subject. You'd be amazed of the changes you'll see in a few months.

On another note, since we have seen some improvements in this forum, let's not stop working hard at it. Think of what you can do to make this forum a better place and take initiative.

Let us also keep the unnecessary stuff out of the forum so people can find the more useful subjects easier. For example, Weekly automated updates of virus definitions are too common to post about every week. If there's a problem with the update, fine. If there's an early release of the update, fine. If updates are not as frequent and people tend to forget to update, fine, but posts like: "Oh, my live update tells me there's an update." are no big deal.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against you giving a heads up to others and a lot of members appreciate it but not overdoing it is what I have in mind. I say this because I'm starting to see threads like: "There will be an update Tomorrow." and we start reading threads full of posts like: "where is it then?" "I still don't have it." "5 hours and counting.", etc... that offer no value to this forum.

Again I'd like to thank you all for your efforts and keep up the good work.

Cheers.
--
You can catch the Devil, but you can't hold him long.

[text was edited by author 2002-09-15 16:19:24]



Wildcatboy
Invisible
Premium,Mod
join:2000-10-30
Toronto, ON
kudos:3

1 recommendation

I've received a few IMs about the last comment I made so I try to clarify the subject a bit.

The idea is that we should all try to add value to the forum with each post we make. Posts about daily updates of NAV do add value for some but we can do better. A one liner that says daily update is there, go get it is nothing but an announcement that's known by majority of users. After all it's a Daily update which means it's released daily. What's the news?

Weekly scheduled updates that are pulled by auto update features are not much of a news either. Sure, some people can still use it, as they have chosen not to use the auto update and manually update their AV (me included) but filling up the forum with daily posts about them is another story.

Again it's about adding as much value to the forum as we can, so here's a proposition:

If you really want to announce them, how about doing a bit more research? Find out what the new added signatures are. Do a research about those viruses, worms and Trojans and inform others about them. Include a few links to descriptions of a few of them and how they work and how they can be cleaned. In other words, add value to the forum. This way people are informed about the update and both you and they will also learn a few things about those viruses.

Let's make hanging around this forum an educational experience as opposed to something like reading the announcements section of a Newspaper. It can be done and you are the ones to do it.
--
You can catch the Devil, but you can't hold him long.



RDionysus

join:2000-10-03
Lindenhurst, NY
reply to Wildcatboy

Broadband security is a very important issue, one that's overlooked extremely often. I enjoyed talking with and learning from WCB "back in the day", and I firmly believe that under his tutelage this forum can revisit its former glory!



Daniel
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-26
San Francisco, CA
Reviews:
·webpass.net
reply to Wildcatboy

said by Wildcatboy:
Let us also keep the unnecessary stuff out of the forum so people can find the more useful subjects easier. For example, Weekly automated updates of virus definitions are too common to post about every week. If there's a problem with the update, fine. If there's an early release of the update, fine. If updates are not as frequent and people tend to forget to update, fine, but posts like: "Oh, my live update tells me there's an update." are no big deal.
Speak it, brother! (raising hands to the heavens in thanks).

Seriously, I am so glad you said that.
--
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized." - Sun Tzu


Randy Bell
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Santa Clara, CA


3 recommendations

reply to Wildcatboy

said by Wildcatboy:
After all it's a Daily update which means it's released daily. What's the news?
The news for me is when the update is released at the ftp server, which varies greatly from one day to the next. Although many have the IU batch file to automate this process somewhat, still it's nice to know exactly when the update is available, since it requires a manual download. Some people schedule their IU batch file to run on a periodic basis, so for them the process is automated, but not for the rest of us. I'm assuming here that you have the Norton intelligent updater (IU) threads in mind.

I realize this is not news for people who don't use NAV, but the most recent firewall poll revealed that many of us do use NAV, thus the notices about daily updates. If the title doesn't apply to your AV, then of course you can just ignore it -- just as I pay little attention to update news about AVG, McAfee, KAV, NOD32, eTrust, Tauscan, The Cleaner, etc. -- products I don't use myself.
said by Wildcatboy:
If you really want to announce them, how about doing a bit more research? Find out what the new added signatures are.
dp and I and other users almost always do exactly that: list the new viruses detected, from the whatsnew.txt file.
said by Wildcatboy:
Do a research about those viruses, worms and Trojans and inform others about them. Include a few links to descriptions of a few of them and how they work and how they can be cleaned. In other words, add value to the forum.
Sometimes I've added detection pictures and comments to these threads (particularly the TrojanHunter ruleset threads), especially for new virus and trojan detections where I recognize a particular infection sent in for analysis. Others can contribute what they know too, since forum members help their various vendors to get detection of new nasties.

Some of us have sent infected files to the program authors for analysis. Magnus Mischel (TH author) and Brendon Woirhaye (Symantec) have been most helpful and are to be commended publicly for their fine work in assisting us in getting detection on these new nasties -- not to mention Wayne Langlois (TDS author) and others.
said by Wildcatboy:
This way people are informed about the update and both you and they will also learn a few things about those viruses.
Point well taken: we especially can contribute, when we see detection of viruses, worms, and trojans we know we've been instrumental in getting detection on, and on malware we recognize and know something about ahead-of-time (before detection).

For other malware, unfortunately for example, often Symantec creates an entry at their website about the new virus or trojan when it is added to the virus list, but it contains little or no information.

However, your point is still well-received, we could research the same malware on other AV/AT sites which may have already obtained information on the same virus or trojan.

Thanks for all the steps you're taking to make this a better forum for all of us, WCB. :)

[text was edited by author 2002-09-17 07:24:31]


Mats
Here kitty and the chimp. Smash
Premium
join:2002-03-16
kudos:1
reply to Daniel

said by danielrm26:
said by Wildcatboy:
Let us also keep the unnecessary stuff out of the forum so people can find the more useful subjects easier. For example, Weekly automated updates of virus definitions are too common to post about every week. If there's a problem with the update, fine. If there's an early release of the update, fine. If updates are not as frequent and people tend to forget to update, fine, but posts like: "Oh, my live update tells me there's an update." are no big deal.
Speak it, brother! (raising hands to the heavens in thanks).

Seriously, I am so glad you said that.


i am very glad he said this as well. i just hope it works


sig
Premium
join:2001-05-05
reply to Wildcatboy

I rather agree that the posting of the availability of updates, especially daily updates (such as those for NAV), if there's nothing remarkable in the update, seems a tad superfluous. One can schedule one's own daily update checks, whether one does it automatically or manually. One can check for updates in the morning and in the evening, for example. It's all up to the user and I don't see why a thread is warranted to prompt the user, particularly on a daily basis.

I understand TDS has daily updates, BOClean's are just about daily, and other apps whenever. Fortunately, one rarely see threads announcing updates for these and the other AV/AT products. Imagine if there were new threads posted every time there was an update. In some instances an update may be noteworthy (like when The Cleaner actually had an update for the first time in months it seemed, LOL). But that's probably not the norm.



Randy Bell
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Santa Clara, CA


1 recommendation

said by sig:
Fortunately, one rarely see threads announcing updates for these and the other AV/AT products.
On the contrary, I've noticed quite a few threads about BOClean updates in the past. And there are update threads posted for Tauscan and The Cleaner. I don't know why TDS updates aren't posted, I suppose TDS users like IGGY and TonyKlein and others aren't motivated to post about them. Wilders has a separate forum dedicated solely to AV/AT update notices: "update alerts", »www.wilderssecurity.com/index.php?board=26

Regarding the IU threads, the antivirus poll confirms many NAV users here, so this is (I think) why there's significant interest in these threads. :)

[text was edited by author 2002-09-17 17:54:33]


sig
Premium
join:2001-05-05


1 recommendation

Randy, I said "rarely" not "never." Perhaps I should have said "only occasionally" but certainly as you know (and my point was) there are not threads here each and every time another product has an update, especially for those that update daily. Do you think it would be a good thing for the security forum to have daily threads for TDS, BOClean and other proggies each and every time there is an update? We know there are users of such products here but fortunately they do not post daily about daily updates.

The Wilder's update forum was set up specifically to avoid cluttering up the other forums with update announcements. I'm not recommending that here, but as you point out there are other places solely dedicated to update announcements.

As WCB said, the mere fact that there is a daily update of a product that is updated daily is not news. Seriously, does anyone really need a thread to find out at what time of day to download a daily update? If there's something substantive to discuss, fine. But just posting links and cut and pastes on bug info from the Symantec site to make it look like there's a discussion going on? What's the value added to the forum at large? If there's a new bug going around that's particularly worthy of note, then that should be discussed in a separate thread so all can see.

I can see posting updates when there's a new virulent baddie on the loose (like Klez for example) and the guy's now in the defs. That's news. Or there's been a problem with the program or a def and it's been fixed. But daily? No. Not for any program.

[text was edited by author 2002-09-17 18:10:36]



Randy Bell
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Santa Clara, CA

2 recommendations

said by sig:
The Wilder's update forum was set up specifically to avoid cluttering up the other forums with update announcements. I'm not recommending that here, but as you point out there are other places solely dedicated to update announcements.
Well, if enough people feel negatively about the update threads, maybe dslreports should create a separate forum for them, just like Wilders...just a thought. Personally, I find the IU and other threads harmless...and easily ignored (based on their subject) by those who aren't interested. :)


sig
Premium
join:2001-05-05

quote:
Well, if enough people feel negatively about the update threads, maybe dslreports should create a separate forum for them, just like Wilders...just a thought.
Or...maybe posters could exercise some discretion and selectivity regarding the posting of updates, as WCB requested.


Wildcatboy
Invisible
Premium,Mod
join:2000-10-30
Toronto, ON
kudos:3

2 recommendations

reply to Wildcatboy


Well, here's the problem: NAV daily update comes out today so we have a thread about it. Then another one comes out tomorrow, so we have another thread about it while today's thread is still sitting at page two or three and is still getting responses. Then the third day... what do you know ... we have another daily update so we have the third thread while the first and the second are still being responded to. You get my point?

As sig mentioned other AV programs have daily files too and we don't see daily threads. Why? Well, Randy gave us one good reason. A lot of people are not as enthusiastic to post about them and a lot of people think it's not as important.

There are a few problems here. A) The forum is filled with a bunch of similar threads which by themselves are not duplicate threads but they are all similar in nature. B) We are giving people the illusion that this forum is dominated by NAV users and we (as a forum) are supporting or promoting NAV which is far from the truth.

I'd like this forum to be as impartial as possible. DSLR Security forum does not promote a certain product. We give people options and let them choose. I have seen too many occasions when people chose an inferior product simply because it had become fashionable. I want us to go beyond that and be as diverse as possible.

There has been a plus side to those threads as well. Sometimes I see a few people who hardly ever post anywhere else respond to those threads and thank the poster . It's a good thing because every now and then we are reminded that a lot of new people are lurking through this forum and read silently. They are not posting for various reasons, one being the false assumption that since they are not knowledgeable enough in Security issues they might as well be quiet. This couldn't be farther from the truth. If there are no good questions, there are no good answers.

I'd like to encourage new members to ask questions and participate in any way they can. Those who want to learn are as much a part of this forum as those who answer questions. One cannot survive without the other and a forum without newbies is bound to fail.
--
You can catch the Devil, but you can't hold him long.



laffalot
Crunch Tsc
Premium,ExMod2004-7
join:2002-03-27
Scotland

1 recommendation

reply to Wildcatboy

To begin with I do agree with what Wildcatboy is wanting to do with this forum and I do understand where he is coming from.

However I am one of those who greatly appreciate those other members who post regularly regarding new updates to the many different pieces of software not just NAV and especially when you get that little bit extra info too.

As Randy has all ready mentioned Wilders have a separate forum for updates. Therefore maybe we should create a new forum that is purely for the announcements of these updates, as I am sure there will be many users who would post and appreciate it - I for one. This would then keep this forum free for those looking for help and security discussions and stop all the updates taking the pages up.
--
Join us and help find a cure - TSC



bjf123
We Want... A Shrubbery
Premium
join:2000-02-11
Hamilton, OH
reply to Wildcatboy

said by Wildcatboy:
Well, here's the problem: NAV daily update comes out today so we have a thread about it. Then another one comes out tomorrow, so we have another thread about it while today's thread is still sitting at page two or three and is still getting responses. Then the third day... what do you know ... we have another daily update so we have the third thread while the first and the second are still being responded to. You get my point?
I agree completely, WCB. If someone posts about an update to AVG or The Cleaner, that's great, since those updates are rather sporadic. Maybe I'm being naive, but I don't see it as being that critical to grab every NAV update minutes after it's available, especially if the defs being added are low risk.
--
Golf is a relatively simple game, played by reasonably intelligent people, stupidly.

fastez1

join:2001-12-26
Hephzibah, GA

1 recommendation

reply to Wildcatboy

An update Forum sounds like something that might take on a
life of its own, it could be extremely useful and a big
time-saver. We do spend much more time than it would seem
keeping up with AV, Trojan and various Program updates and
changes and diverting that space and time from Security. If
a dedicated Forum were in place it seems both interests
would be far better served. There is a lot of food for
thought and some very good ideas in this thread, but again
the idea of a Forum for any type of Update seems like an
addition which could grow into one of the most useful Forums
available. Thanks to all for an excellent thread and in
particular WCB.

Don't forget to laugh,
Ed



Uriel3

join:2001-11-26
reply to Wildcatboy

said by Wildcatboy:
....DSLR Security forum does not promote a certain product. We give people options and let them choose. I have seen too many occasions when people chose an inferior product simply because it had become fashionable. I want us to go beyond that and be as diverse as possible.
I'm glad you clarified that because up until now I had been under the false impression that DSLR Reports was promoting by way of condoning seemingly very biased posts of certain products such as in the area of firewalls, antivirus, and antitrojan software.
said by WBC:

......every now and then we are reminded that a lot of new people are lurking through this forum and read silently. They are not posting for various reasons, one being the false assumption that since they are not knowledgeable enough in Security issues they might as well be quiet. This couldn't be farther from the truth. If there are no good questions, there are no good answers.
I form part of those who upon observing the diversity of knowledge and expertise in the area of security and privacy in this forum felt intimidated and was therefore hesitant in posting. Some appeals for advice such as my last post of; 2002-09-17 07:48:00 may very well remain unanswered and lost in the shuffle perhaps because of that "false assumption".
said by WBC:

...One cannot survive without the other and a forum without newbies is bound to fail.
And with that I couldn't agree more. If this forum should, heaven forbid, degrade from its present high stature it will most definitely not be because of a lack of intellectual ability or qualifications of our gracious Host.


Wildcatboy
Invisible
Premium,Mod
join:2000-10-30
Toronto, ON
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to Wildcatboy


Thanks for all your responses. A few answers to some of the questions you asked here and via IM:

I can't promise anything about a forum specifically for AV/AT update announcements but I can tell you that this is not something I like. I'd like this forum to be a one stop shop for all Security related information. Splitting things apart in several forums is not something I like to do. Besides, a few posts may look useless to some and the same posts may look very useful to someone new to computers and security. Diversity is what I'm looking for, therefore the subjects need to appeal to a diverse group of people. And as I mentioned, We also need newbies in this forum and those posts may be quite useful to them.

Moderation is what I'm looking for. Daily update announcements are just too much so let's stop them unless there's something special about them. Weekly updates are so so for me. I can live with or without them. But please make sure there's only one announcement about them. This means you'll have to take responsibility and search the forum to make sure no one has done it before. And no one liner posts please either. "The update is there, go get it.", is not enough. If you do the job, do it well.

Unscheduled releases or sporadic updates are always welcome for any product. All other announcements about new products are of course welcome as well.

--
You can catch the Devil, but you can't hold him long.

Expand your moderator at work

System
reply to Wildcatboy

This topic has been un-stickied by Wildcatboy See Profile