 sigPremium
join:2001-05-05 | reply to Wildcatboy
Re: Forum rules, reminder, changes, updates, ... I rather agree that the posting of the availability of updates, especially daily updates (such as those for NAV), if there's nothing remarkable in the update, seems a tad superfluous. One can schedule one's own daily update checks, whether one does it automatically or manually. One can check for updates in the morning and in the evening, for example. It's all up to the user and I don't see why a thread is warranted to prompt the user, particularly on a daily basis.
I understand TDS has daily updates, BOClean's are just about daily, and other apps whenever. Fortunately, one rarely see threads announcing updates for these and the other AV/AT products. Imagine if there were new threads posted every time there was an update. In some instances an update may be noteworthy (like when The Cleaner actually had an update for the first time in months it seemed, LOL). But that's probably not the norm. |
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| said by sig:
Fortunately, one rarely see threads announcing updates for these and the other AV/AT products.
On the contrary, I've noticed quite a few threads about BOClean updates in the past. And there are update threads posted for Tauscan and The Cleaner. I don't know why TDS updates aren't posted, I suppose TDS users like IGGY and TonyKlein and others aren't motivated to post about them. Wilders has a separate forum dedicated solely to AV/AT update notices: "update alerts", »www.wilderssecurity.com/index.php?board=26
Regarding the IU threads, the antivirus poll confirms many NAV users here, so this is (I think) why there's significant interest in these threads.  :)
[text was edited by author 2002-09-17 17:54:33] |
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sigPremium
join:2001-05-05
| Randy, I said "rarely" not "never." Perhaps I should have said "only occasionally" but certainly as you know (and my point was) there are not threads here each and every time another product has an update, especially for those that update daily. Do you think it would be a good thing for the security forum to have daily threads for TDS, BOClean and other proggies each and every time there is an update? We know there are users of such products here but fortunately they do not post daily about daily updates.
The Wilder's update forum was set up specifically to avoid cluttering up the other forums with update announcements. I'm not recommending that here, but as you point out there are other places solely dedicated to update announcements.
As WCB said, the mere fact that there is a daily update of a product that is updated daily is not news. Seriously, does anyone really need a thread to find out at what time of day to download a daily update? If there's something substantive to discuss, fine. But just posting links and cut and pastes on bug info from the Symantec site to make it look like there's a discussion going on? What's the value added to the forum at large? If there's a new bug going around that's particularly worthy of note, then that should be discussed in a separate thread so all can see.
I can see posting updates when there's a new virulent baddie on the loose (like Klez for example) and the guy's now in the defs. That's news. Or there's been a problem with the program or a def and it's been fixed. But daily? No. Not for any program.
[text was edited by author 2002-09-17 18:10:36] |
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| said by sig:
The Wilder's update forum was set up specifically to avoid cluttering up the other forums with update announcements. I'm not recommending that here, but as you point out there are other places solely dedicated to update announcements.
Well, if enough people feel negatively about the update threads, maybe dslreports should create a separate forum for them, just like Wilders...just a thought. Personally, I find the IU and other threads harmless...and easily ignored (based on their subject) by those who aren't interested. :) |
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sigPremium
join:2001-05-05 | quote:
Well, if enough people feel negatively about the update threads, maybe dslreports should create a separate forum for them, just like Wilders...just a thought.
Or...maybe posters could exercise some discretion and selectivity regarding the posting of updates, as WCB requested. |
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 WildcatboyInvisiblePremium,Mod
join:2000-10-30
Toronto, ON
kudos:2
Security Product V..
Security
| reply to Wildcatboy
Well, here's the problem: NAV daily update comes out today so we have a thread about it. Then another one comes out tomorrow, so we have another thread about it while today's thread is still sitting at page two or three and is still getting responses. Then the third day... what do you know ... we have another daily update so we have the third thread while the first and the second are still being responded to. You get my point?
As sig mentioned other AV programs have daily files too and we don't see daily threads. Why? Well, Randy gave us one good reason. A lot of people are not as enthusiastic to post about them and a lot of people think it's not as important.
There are a few problems here. A) The forum is filled with a bunch of similar threads which by themselves are not duplicate threads but they are all similar in nature. B) We are giving people the illusion that this forum is dominated by NAV users and we (as a forum) are supporting or promoting NAV which is far from the truth.
I'd like this forum to be as impartial as possible. DSLR Security forum does not promote a certain product. We give people options and let them choose. I have seen too many occasions when people chose an inferior product simply because it had become fashionable. I want us to go beyond that and be as diverse as possible.
There has been a plus side to those threads as well. Sometimes I see a few people who hardly ever post anywhere else respond to those threads and thank the poster . It's a good thing because every now and then we are reminded that a lot of new people are lurking through this forum and read silently. They are not posting for various reasons, one being the false assumption that since they are not knowledgeable enough in Security issues they might as well be quiet. This couldn't be farther from the truth. If there are no good questions, there are no good answers.
I'd like to encourage new members to ask questions and participate in any way they can. Those who want to learn are as much a part of this forum as those who answer questions. One cannot survive without the other and a forum without newbies is bound to fail.
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You can catch the Devil, but you can't hold him long. |
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 laffalotCrunch TscPremium,ExMod2004-7
join:2002-03-27
Scotland | reply to Wildcatboy
To begin with I do agree with what Wildcatboy is wanting to do with this forum and I do understand where he is coming from.
However I am one of those who greatly appreciate those other members who post regularly regarding new updates to the many different pieces of software not just NAV and especially when you get that little bit extra info too.
As Randy has all ready mentioned Wilders have a separate forum for updates. Therefore maybe we should create a new forum that is purely for the announcements of these updates, as I am sure there will be many users who would post and appreciate it - I for one. This would then keep this forum free for those looking for help and security discussions and stop all the updates taking the pages up.
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Join us and help find a cure - TSC |
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 bjf123We Want... A ShrubberyPremium
join:2000-02-11
Hamilton, OH | reply to Wildcatboy
said by Wildcatboy:
Well, here's the problem: NAV daily update comes out today so we have a thread about it. Then another one comes out tomorrow, so we have another thread about it while today's thread is still sitting at page two or three and is still getting responses. Then the third day... what do you know ... we have another daily update so we have the third thread while the first and the second are still being responded to. You get my point?
I agree completely, WCB. If someone posts about an update to AVG or The Cleaner, that's great, since those updates are rather sporadic. Maybe I'm being naive, but I don't see it as being that critical to grab every NAV update minutes after it's available, especially if the defs being added are low risk.
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Golf is a relatively simple game, played by reasonably intelligent people, stupidly. |
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fastez1
join:2001-12-26
Hephzibah, GA | reply to Wildcatboy
An update Forum sounds like something that might take on a
life of its own, it could be extremely useful and a big
time-saver. We do spend much more time than it would seem
keeping up with AV, Trojan and various Program updates and
changes and diverting that space and time from Security. If
a dedicated Forum were in place it seems both interests
would be far better served. There is a lot of food for
thought and some very good ideas in this thread, but again
the idea of a Forum for any type of Update seems like an
addition which could grow into one of the most useful Forums
available. Thanks to all for an excellent thread and in
particular WCB.
Don't forget to laugh,
Ed |
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| reply to Wildcatboy
said by Wildcatboy:
....DSLR Security forum does not promote a certain product. We give people options and let them choose. I have seen too many occasions when people chose an inferior product simply because it had become fashionable. I want us to go beyond that and be as diverse as possible.
I'm glad you clarified that because up until now I had been under the false impression that DSLR Reports was promoting by way of condoning seemingly very biased posts of certain products such as in the area of firewalls, antivirus, and antitrojan software. said by WBC:
......every now and then we are reminded that a lot of new people are lurking through this forum and read silently. They are not posting for various reasons, one being the false assumption that since they are not knowledgeable enough in Security issues they might as well be quiet. This couldn't be farther from the truth. If there are no good questions, there are no good answers.
I form part of those who upon observing the diversity of knowledge and expertise in the area of security and privacy in this forum felt intimidated and was therefore hesitant in posting. Some appeals for advice such as my last post of; 2002-09-17 07:48:00 may very well remain unanswered and lost in the shuffle perhaps because of that "false assumption". said by WBC:
...One cannot survive without the other and a forum without newbies is bound to fail.
And with that I couldn't agree more. If this forum should, heaven forbid, degrade from its present high stature it will most definitely not be because of a lack of intellectual ability or qualifications of our gracious Host. |
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WildcatboyInvisiblePremium,Mod
join:2000-10-30
Toronto, ON
kudos:2 Host:
Security Product V..
Security
| reply to Wildcatboy
Thanks for all your responses. A few answers to some of the questions you asked here and via IM:
I can't promise anything about a forum specifically for AV/AT update announcements but I can tell you that this is not something I like. I'd like this forum to be a one stop shop for all Security related information. Splitting things apart in several forums is not something I like to do. Besides, a few posts may look useless to some and the same posts may look very useful to someone new to computers and security. Diversity is what I'm looking for, therefore the subjects need to appeal to a diverse group of people. And as I mentioned, We also need newbies in this forum and those posts may be quite useful to them.
Moderation is what I'm looking for. Daily update announcements are just too much so let's stop them unless there's something special about them. Weekly updates are so so for me. I can live with or without them. But please make sure there's only one announcement about them. This means you'll have to take responsibility and search the forum to make sure no one has done it before. And no one liner posts please either. "The update is there, go get it.", is not enough. If you do the job, do it well.
Unscheduled releases or sporadic updates are always welcome for any product. All other announcements about new products are of course welcome as well.
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You can catch the Devil, but you can't hold him long. |
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