 BrianDamage06We Are The Hounds From HellPremium
join:2001-08-14
Rowlett, TX | reply to skokie
Re: SICK!! I can't what? |
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 bistro777Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?Premium
join:2002-02-07
Englewood, CO | reply to Count Hogula$
Re: SICK!! - You’re in rare form today.  My post did not speak to Capellas’ compensation package. (For example, "I understand that high-priced help is just that.") Heck, we’d all take a seven-figure salary like that, and his record at CPQ speaks for itself. Besides, the remaining WCOM employees would probably all chip-in and pay him even more if he can bring the company out of C11 and save their jobs in doing so.
What my post does address is the apparent continuing moral bankruptcy at WorldCom that accompanies the legal one. To wit: empty promises regarding severance pay, medical benefits, and a restrictive rehire policy for those released earlier this year. It’s not, as you wrote, to “warrant more money” for ex-employees – it’s about only what they were promised.
If someone bought your car for $x, gave you $y and promised the remainder in a couple of weeks yet never delivered, you’d be PO’d, too, and demand your due. We all would. I think that’s what the ex5100 are asking. Simply put, an honorable man pays his debts. And so does an honorable company. WorldCom has yet to show it is one. And why should I buy sevices I must depend on from a comapny whose employees (ex or otherwise) can't even count on it?
Disclaimer: I am not WCOM, present or ex. I am not even, nor have I ever been, a member of the WCOM Board of Directors. I have never knowingly used an MCI calling card. I do, however, have a UUNET t-shirt or two.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it." -- Thomas Paine |
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| Bankruptcy is hell...but not uncommon. Worldcom is in bankruptcy court obeying the instructions of the court. They have put their best effort forward in hiring the BEST man for the job...Capellas. Universally he is seen as Worldcom's best chance. Doesn't the BoD owe that to the employees that are still at Worldcom?
Who you choose to buy from is your business...but bankruptcy is nothing new and the same precautions and effects on employees apply. Worldcom employees deserve no special treatment...they got their wages. If they were shorted some perks...too bad...welcome to bankruptcy. Creditors on the otherhand are still owned ACTUALLY MONEY for the products and services supplied.
This isn't an issue of ex employees being owed wages...this is about their extravagant severence package...money that would be paid when they leave. Free UNEARNED money. Well...they aren't getting the free unearned money since their employer went into bankruptcy.
Disclaimer: I am the overpaid spokeshack from Worldcom who's sole job is to blow sunshine up their ass on DSLR.
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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -Thomas Jefferson
[text was edited by author 2002-12-10 15:57:41] |
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bistro777Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?Premium
join:2002-02-07
Englewood, CO | reply to Karl Bode
Re: SICK!! Fender Rhodes, ARP - precursor, I think, to DARPA - Axe and Odyssey, Fender keyboard bass, Hammond B-3 and (later) X-5,and Roland something or other. Ah, those were the days...
I like to reminisce with people I don't know. |
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| reply to Cheetah9
quote:
what happened to the days when the "best management people" were paid a reasonable wage, and then a nice percentage of the profits as a year end bonus?
Those days ended when businesses started posting losses "on paper" to avoid paying corporate income taxes. |
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bistro777Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?Premium
join:2002-02-07
Englewood, CO | reply to Count Hogula$
Re: SICK!! - Again, my posts had nothing to do with Capellas nor his salary. If the going rate for something is $1 or $1 million or $10 million, the buyer always has the option to walk away. In this case WCOM paid the going rate, must live with it, and that’s well and good. Heck, if he saves the company, they’ll rename streets after him in Clinton and Arlington.
I guess part of what irks me is the millions in retention bonuses – approved by the bankruptcy court – paid to “a WCOM few” who, if honest about it, had no plans of leaving anyway because they couldn’t have found comparable jobs. And these millions were paid while the company practiced a pattern of obfuscation, delay and deceit surrounding last summer’s massive layoff.
“Just be a man about it ”sounds trite (and also politically incorrect). But I’d have a lot more respect for the company had WCOM simply stated, “Here’s the reality and here’s what we’re gonna do” rather than what actually seems to have transpired - especially when things like COBRA, children's medical care, etc. are involved. At that point they were not only screwin' with people's lives but those of their children - - and no one can tell me that was right.
Disclaimer: Michael Capellas is neither my cousin, once-removed, my gall bladder, just-removed, nor my godfather, recently-moved. But my first 386 was nonetheless a Compaq.
”I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.” - - Thomas Jefferson |
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 JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA | reply to Count Hogula$
Re: SICK!! Actually, Capellas has been criticized for driving Compaq to the point that it had to be bought by HP to "survive". |
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| That's laughable. Compaq was on shaky ground and taking a nosedive prior to Capellas. Capellas got Compaq strong again and made it attractive to the conservative HP...who admired Capellas work so much that they voted him CEO of HP...which is pretty uncommon. And as more evidence...the day Capellas announced his departure...HP stock took a nosedive.
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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -Thomas Jefferson |
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 AthlGrondPremium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
| said by Count Hogula$:
And as more evidence...the day Capellas announced his departure...HP stock took a nosedive.
It is in no way uncommon for changes in management to cause stock prices to dive. (even when the management is changing due to the old management ending up in jail)
[Edit]
That's just an observation about investors, not about Capellas. (Don't know too much about Capellas, though I doubt he alone can turn WC around.)
[/Edit]
[text was edited by author 2002-12-10 16:54:18] |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA | reply to Count Hogula$
HP's stock has been going down because they've had no plan, but I digress.
It is inappropriate to to shower execs with such large amounts of compensation during this time in the company's existence, and it seems the bankruptcy judge sees that as well. Perhaps later, if and when the company has recovered, but not right now, especially when corners are being cut at the expense of people lower on the pole. Most companies reward employees -after- the accomplishments. |
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| reply to MrBradTX
said by MrBradTX:
Creditors implicitly agreed to sell to Worldcom on credit and assume the risk
Untrue. Worldcom owes billions to telcos like SBC and Verizon which were forced to give Worldcom access under the 1996 Telecom Act. So Worldcom commits heinous acts of fraud, goes to the court and cries for protection, and emerges fresh and clean while the Telcos that didn't want to sell to Worldcom in the first place are on the hook for all that money. |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA | The telcos signed off on the TAof96. Too bad, so sad.... |
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 KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | reply to Count Hogula$
I can kick Capellas ass in UT23k anytime.... |
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pkust
join:2001-08-09
Houston, TX | reply to Count Hogula$
said by Count Hogula$:
What did they steal? Worldcom employees are bitching about not benefits they haven't earned. They got their paychecks...unlike the creditors.
Who are you to decide whether or not someone has "earned" their benefits?
There is a word for valuing the financial remuneration of professional financiers over the health and welfare of human beings: disgusting.
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Cordially,
Peter Nayland Kust
pkust@tekmedia.com
TEKMedia Communications
www.tekmedia.com |
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pkust
join:2001-08-09
Houston, TX | reply to Count Hogula$
said by Count Hogula$:
Capellas has a reputation of being ethical. And his wage is reasonable considering his track record, integrity and talent. Capellas proved it with Compaq...and $5 million is just the cost of admission.
Capellas' track record, talent, and integrity are far more questionable than you might want to admit. However, even if Capellas is this paragon of virtue and business acumen, it is irrational in the extreme to suggest that one man can singlehandedly turn around a company the size of WorldCom. The myth of the superstar CEO is just that--a myth, a story, a fable.
When a company is doing well, it can afford to indulge that myth, but when a company is on the ropes, that myth is a dangerously expensive luxury indeed. WorldCom does not need a superstar CEO--it just needs to find a few honest men who can resist the temptation to cook the books to pump up the value of their stock options.
One should always be mindful that superstar execs are the ones who created WorldCom's current mess.
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Cordially,
Peter Nayland Kust
pkust@tekmedia.com
TEKMedia Communications
www.tekmedia.com |
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| reply to pkust
said by pkust:
said by Count Hogula$:
What did they steal? Worldcom employees are bitching about not benefits they haven't earned. They got their paychecks...unlike the creditors.
Who are you to decide whether or not someone has "earned" their benefits?
There is a word for valuing the financial remuneration of professional financiers over the health and welfare of human beings: disgusting.
Really...2 million years and suddenly severance packages are an absolute necessity to health and welfare of human beings. Laughable.
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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -Thomas Jefferson |
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| reply to JakCrow
said by JakCrow:
The telcos signed off on the TAof96. Too bad, so sad....
Because of that, they're supposed to foot the bill for Worldcom? |
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| reply to pkust
Regarding your statements about Capellas.
Conjecture...pure conjecture.
HE turned Compaq around. That fact is not disputable.
The jealousy of "common" men often get the better of themselves and form the foundation for opinion.
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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -Thomas Jefferson |
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pkust
join:2001-08-09
Houston, TX | reply to Count Hogula$
said by Count Hogula$:
Really...2 million years and suddenly severance packages are an absolute necessity to health and welfare of human beings. Laughable.
2 Million years ago, every man hunted for his food. He lived off the land.
That is not the reality today. Take away a man's money and that man will starve. Take away health benefits and children will suffer. That is the sobering reality of the modern world.
There is nothing laughable about turning a blind eye to human misfortune. Your scorn is unmerited and highly misplaced.
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Cordially,
Peter Nayland Kust
pkust@tekmedia.com
TEKMedia Communications
www.tekmedia.com |
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| And today man can survive without a severance package. It is not the responsibility of employers to take care of children. That burden resides with the parents.
I turn a blind eye to anyone looking for attention from their misfortune with similar misfortune is shared by others on a daily basis. These people are nothing special and deserve no special consideration. They are no more important than other individuals in their situation...like those employees of Textron, Boeing and probably UAL.
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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -Thomas Jefferson |
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