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Gargoyle
Premium,MVM,ExMod 2004-07
join:2000-12-29
Planet X
reply to P Ness

Re: Team Helix Foldinator Donations....

Nice start to the articles P Ness. I think an elected "board" for oversight is a good idea. Also, not sure how to place this association in any particular state ... because we are an internet based team. Is a physical location required?
--
I fold for PFW -=- some of us on IRC


BBR_InsUW
NF or CoH thats my Game
Premium,Mod
join:2000-04-22
La Mesa, CA


1 recommendation

reply to MstrBlstr0
I will jump in here at this point and ask MstrBlstr to contact me if you want and I can offer up tons of help starting with getting you access to the Crunchenstein Forum where you can learn alot.

»www.crunchenstein.net/forum/index.php

Edward
--
Will you HELP a Crunche GROW ...

[text was edited by author 2003-01-20 19:20:00]


seaquake
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-23
Millersville, MD

1 recommendation

reply to MstrBlstr0
I'd highly suggest that InsUW's advice be taken. The people involved with crunchie spent a lot of time and research on startup of the project. I believe their preparation has helped avoid potential problems from occurring.

I hope Helix's efforts to build the Foldinator are as successful as Crunchenstein has been for SETI!
--
"Are you on the Distributed Computing Map?"


Gargoyle
Premium,MVM,ExMod 2004-07
join:2000-12-29
Planet X
This is good advice ... and thanks for the crunchenstein url ... I think we should "borrow" from the crunchenstein team experience to help us get going better/faster. Thanks seaquake and insuw!
--
I fold for PFW -=- some of us on IRC


P Ness
You'Ve Forgotten 9-11 Already
Premium
join:2001-08-29
way way out
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to BBR_InsUW
said by BBR_InsUW:
I will jump in here at this point and ask MstrBlstr to contact me if you want and I can offer up tons of help starting with getting you access to the Crunchenstein Forum where you can learn alot.

»www.crunchenstein.net/forum/index.php

Edward

Gotta love those SETI folks.... :O)
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P Ness
You'Ve Forgotten 9-11 Already
Premium
join:2001-08-29
way way out
Reviews:
·Comcast
»www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.a···1&DEPA=1

the 1700's just went to 49.99 on new egg...OEM...
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uniquecp
Where'D It Go
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Scottsdale, AZ
reply to MstrBlstr0
Ok, just some info for you

Newegg has the ECS K7VMM board for about $58 shipped, this is an all in one board and would have been our choice for crunchenstein except they were not available before Christmas.

I can get you OEM XP1800's for $57 each and would be glad to do so.
(New 0.13 core)

I also can get you Thermaltake 6cu+ hsf for $12 ea. a solid 350W PSU for around $18 shipped, pbrousaard has the link for these. We both have used several and have had no probs.

Some lessons learned

Retail fans are not adequate for 24/7 DC crunching. You will spend a lot of time rebooting and checking if you do not keep the temps down.

We opted with crunchie to use 1g + donated drives on each board for one reason, if a hard drive fails do you want to lose 6 boards worth of work.

You can usually get NT4 from members who have upgraded

Pay the extra dollars and buy the Crucial memory, especially if you want raise the FSB a little on these boards. Cheap memory will not OC at all. Right now it is about $41 shipped.

If you want to understand how we know this

www.crunchenstein.org feel free to drop by, we just started up the first 4 of our second 12 boards.
--
So many WU's...so little time


Optimum1
Hey Macleod, Get Offa My Ewe
Premium
join:2001-08-22
Minneapolis, MN
Do you know if that particular mobo will PXE boot right out of the box, or does it need a BIOS hack? Our FAH efforts might rely on the outcome of the BOUNCE project --- and then such a detail will matter.

My other ECS boards (m810) all need a non-OEM, hacked BIOS to get the SiS900 integrated NIC to boot PXE. However, the Biostar boards in the same price/performance category use Realtek integrated NICs, and they definitely boot PXE with a vendor-supported BIOS. Without PXE, you are stuck booting from a floppy --- and that's just not nekkid enough for my tastes

What in particular recommends that board, other than price and standard support for XP+ processors? Do they overclock fairly graciously?

Good info on the retail fans -- I've never had any problem using them 24/7 dedicated, but I'm in Minnesota
--
Fold! 20 systems, 19.0 Ghz, 301 mg of Thorazine daily...


uniquecp
Where'D It Go
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Scottsdale, AZ
reply to MstrBlstr0
pbroussard has a K7VMM board and could answer your questions on the nic. Overall good oc ability but the Biostar bios have the same. Board quality is a lot better but that is not a killer point, you can check the Biostar prices at newegg though I think we were looking at that board for $62 shipped. It is a reputable place I have done a good bit of business with them.

The retail fans will not hold up in a stack as you have more heat to move, Seti also runs the CPU's at 100% and this does make them warm. I will let you know on any gain on the 0.13 but the minute you kick the FSB up and mess with the Vcore voltages etc. it will climb. The new boards have thermal protection but it is not like a pentium, it does not slow down it powers the chip off and locks the board.

I know the Thermaltake is a little noisy, but it really keeps them cool. Paul has also tested a couple others some are quite inexpensive. It would be worth your time to talk to him as well, he did a lot of the testing as I did.

--
So many WU's...so little time


P Ness
You'Ve Forgotten 9-11 Already
Premium
join:2001-08-29
way way out
Reviews:
·Comcast
LOL gotta say....all we need to do is say PROJECT...and the seti people are all over it....i love them.....and where did they get all this free time??? THEY MUST BE ALIENS...!!!

:OP
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Axilla
Finger, Finger
Premium,MVM,Ex-Mod 2004-13
join:2001-03-26
Schofield, WI

FOLD ON!
--
~AXILLA~6.56Ghz FOLDING

[text was edited by author 2003-01-22 00:26:59]


P Ness
You'Ve Forgotten 9-11 Already
Premium
join:2001-08-29
way way out
Reviews:
·Comcast
downloadArticlesofAs···tion.zip 4,264 bytes
(ArticlesofAssociation.doc)
second attempt at association rules...added back in the election of an oversite board...
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rfhar
The World Sport, Played In Every Country
Premium
join:2001-03-26
Buicktown,Mi
Reviews:
·Power-Net Intern..
reply to MstrBlstr0
I would suggest that a UPS be put on it to protect it from surges and give it a proper shutdown when power fails. And after it gets going we may want to put a server on the next one to add all the biz stuff and not load BBR down.
--
Whoever said that ignorance is bliss wasn't refering to a person with a computer at his fingertips!!!


Gargoyle
Premium,MVM,ExMod 2004-07
join:2000-12-29
Planet X
reply to P Ness
Thanks for the updated articles P Ness. 2 more things ...

1) I still don't understand why we need a "location" for the association. Is there some legal reason?? or is there some common sense reason that I just can' think of??

2) I think we should call the association something like:

Team Helix Foldinator
Team Helix Crunch Project
Team Helix Cure Project
Team Helix Fold Monster
Team Helix Fold'em and Bend'em Project

... well you get the picture. Team Helix is the reason this project will exist and should be a prominent part of the association name IMHO.
--
I fold for PFW -=- some of us on IRC


P Ness
You'Ve Forgotten 9-11 Already
Premium
join:2001-08-29
way way out
Reviews:
·Comcast
yes i agree we need a name...right now i call it the "project" for the lack of a name...and i did not want to call it something just because i might offend the gemoners if i call it folder...or folers if i call it gemoner...lol...now i'm confused....

location just allows us to legally place it in a state...NY is logical because DSLR is there, but we can very well just choose a state with a dart...
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Gargoyle
Premium,MVM,ExMod 2004-07
join:2000-12-29
Planet X
OK, makes sense to call it the project for now ... and we should start another thread to have a name the project contest

And NY makes sense too. Thanks.
--
I fold for PFW -=- some of us on IRC


Optimum1
Hey Macleod, Get Offa My Ewe
Premium
join:2001-08-22
Minneapolis, MN
reply to MstrBlstr0
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like we have enough to get three systems online. What's the timeline? I wanna see the TH *inators start racking up some points!

I'll go ahead and get the power switch and LED tails made, so they're ready to ship. I'll also cook up some HD mounting brackets and some other "accessories" I've found useful. It's easy to forget about some of the little things until the last minute -- so let me know when you have ship dates
--
Fold! 20 systems, 19.0 Ghz, 301 mg of Thorazine daily...


ScottMo
Once in a Lifetime
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-15
Stony Brook, NY
reply to Gargoyle
A couple of other notes from The Crunchenstein project:

I'm merely the host of Crunchie 1 (the first 12 boards) and didn't do any of the preliminary testing. I basically set them up and let 'em rip. The biggest problem I've encountered is the hard drives. They were donated and that saved us quite a bit, but many died in the first weeks of use. From October through December the 11 boards (the server uses 2 new HDs in a RAID configuartion) went through 18 hard drives (including the 11 still operating). I set one drive up and then used Norton Ghost to clone it. Then I kept cloning. For the last month or so the stack has been very stable.

Still, given that amount of work, the donated drives are the way to go. WinNT van be had for $30.00 on eBay, and will fit in any drive 400MB+. The last Crunchie purchase I did was to get 4 850MB drives for $25.00 (on eBay). Its really cost effective to use them, even if they are older.


Optimum1
Hey Macleod, Get Offa My Ewe
Premium
join:2001-08-22
Minneapolis, MN
The dirty little secret of used hard drives is that it really take VERY little mis-handling to thoroughly eff them up. Drop one 4" to your workbench on a its corner, and you just may have sealed its death sentence.

Since most OS's try to work around physical disk errors, you may not notice immediately -- but if the head has become misaligned, it could be prematurely wearing out the surface of the disk, and ticking like a time bomb. It would be MUCH better if such damage were immediately noticeable, but as luck would have it, they don't fail until you've put several hours building them into a system you intend to rely on...

All that said, you are again correct --- they are still worth using, since they can be obtained so cheaply. I have been a believer in imaging software (like Ghost) for years, as a convenient safeguard against lost hours reinventing the wheel. It's just not smart to manage identical configurations any other way.

They whole issue of disk reliability brings back the topic of diskless workstations --- for the cost of TWO hard drives, you can create a Linux NFS server that stores ALL the data on a RAID1 array. It's braindead easy to do with any of the current Linux distros. I recommend it wholeheartedly BOUNCE ON!
--
Fold! 20 systems, 19.0 Ghz, 301 mg of Thorazine daily...


Gargoyle
Premium,MVM,ExMod 2004-07
join:2000-12-29
Planet X
Can we set these blades up as diskless Linux machines? Seems to make great sense ... fewer moving/failing components and we don't have to pay for M$ windoze licenses. Is the setup proven for folding? Is it less admin time once configured?
--
I fold for PFW -=- some of us on IRC


Optimum1
Hey Macleod, Get Offa My Ewe
Premium
join:2001-08-22
Minneapolis, MN
For FAH, I highly recommend it --- especially now that they have optimized the cores such that Windows no longer has a significant speed advantage.

The administration of the diskless systems is really, really easy. They literally run until I turn them off -- one board stayed up for over 4 months until a brown-out freaked it out. I also have mine setup so that EMIII can read all the client directories, allowing me to keep tabs on all those boards. Since I know they "just run", and I can watch their progress, their administration is zilch.

Another advantage: the stripped down Linux environment they run in has almost NOTHING competing with the FAH client, ever. It truly makes the board 100% dedicated, without any additional or unnecessary processes running to distract it from its mission. It's very elegant

//steps down from soapbox//
--
Fold! 20 systems, 19.0 Ghz, 301 mg of Thorazine daily...


FKrooG2
Working my way back
Premium
join:2000-09-28
Tha Zone

I agree with Optimum1 on this...

The BOUNCE project is being created to do just this...

Diskless blades is the way to go if you ask me. An another cool effect of going diskless is you can run more that one mobo off a single power supply...
--
What have you BOUNCED today?

[text was edited by author 2003-01-22 11:11:35]


Gargoyle
Premium,MVM,ExMod 2004-07
join:2000-12-29
Planet X
reply to Optimum1
Well ... it sounds like we have a winner! In fact, it sounds almost too good to be true


MstrBlstr0
Premium
join:2001-07-14
Corpus Christi, TX
reply to FKrooG2
It has been my intention all along to setup a BOUNCE server to run the FAH blades from...

But, lest we forget GAH CLassic can not be run from BOUNCE. So, in this instance for the GAH Classic blades they will have to have a HDD and OS.

I think for now we need to focus on this and get the exact hardware that we are going to purchase...

I can not find the Biostar M7VIG Pro available yet, so I was thinking the Biostar M7VIQ.

Y'all need to decide though as I will not order a thing until this is more organized...

Optimum1, I don't see where you see three systems... I see two MOBO's, no procs RAM yes, Two PSU's but I have to wait on the one to arrive and order the other, HDD's I am still waiting on as well.


Optimum1
Hey Macleod, Get Offa My Ewe
Premium
join:2001-08-22
Minneapolis, MN
Two boards + roughly $300 is what I was figuring....all the other parts seem to be there. Correct me if I misunderstand
--
Fold! 20 systems, 19.0 Ghz, 301 mg of Thorazine daily...


MstrBlstr0
Premium
join:2001-07-14
Corpus Christi, TX

Yes, you misunderstand.... The total at the bottom is for all $$$ received or pledged... Does not mean that I have it in hand yet. This includes the donations of $$$'s to purchase the items above. If there is a $$$ amount posted by the item donated that means that it was a $$$ donation to purchase the item. Once there is a * by that persons name, then this means that I have received the donation and have it in hand.

If I am doing this wrong it would not be the first time that has happened and someone should please correct me.


MstrBlstr0
Premium
join:2001-07-14
Corpus Christi, TX
Jeeez, don't I wish I knew a student....

»www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.a···2&DEPA=6


Starfish
Per Ardua Ad Astra
ExMod 2002-04
join:2000-12-28
Netherlands

1 recommendation

reply to MstrBlstr0
I'm getting the impression that there is a lot of potential BOUNCE-ing

I'm doing what I can my friends...but in case you didn't know: I'm trying to graduate from University and hope to have that small piece of paper I've worked so hard for in my hand by July or so

I've developed the first bit of the 'project configuration screen' as well today. Hope I can get it finished near the end of next week (1 difficult exam and 1 paid webdesign project in between)

--
"Nothing's forgotten... nothing's ever forgotten"


Gargoyle
Premium,MVM,ExMod 2004-07
join:2000-12-29
Planet X
reply to MstrBlstr0
said by MstrBlstr0:

If I am doing this wrong it would not be the first time that has happened and someone should please correct me.
You are doing a great job MB ... keep it up!
--
I fold for PFW -=- some of us on IRC


FKrooG2
Working my way back
Premium
join:2000-09-28
Tha Zone
reply to MstrBlstr0
MB,
I will test the classic version of GAH with Bounce tonight but if I am not mistaken, it does work with BOUNCE...
--
What have you BOUNCED today?