Captives of Competition > Here's my take on it.

Here's my take on it.

Damn, there was only one post on this subject when I started my post. *chuckle*

I guess no one watches TV anymore on Thursday.

*chuckle*

reply to Aggie Dan
Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!
Ok, Aggie Dan or ADSL guy, show me the law that you say exists.
I assure you, I have gone over all of the telecom law that exists and have found NOTHING to substantiate the illegality that you claim exists.
There is no reason to believe that competitive service, regardless of who the local service dialtone provider is, can't exist simultaneously on the same line.
Now, whether or not you want to whine about how behind the eight-ball the ILEC/RBOCs are in administrative capacities insofar as having to co-exist with competitors, has little to do with the argument at hand.
Of course, when a carrier submits an ASR for a circuit order, the service area has been defined by the NPA/NXX code.
This is how an order is placed.
I fail to see how this has anything to do with the argument.
What is being said here is that it is possible to accommodate these arrangements, but the fact is that the RBOC's provisioning and circuit ordering procedures are inadequate.
Wah. Fix them.
Shortcomings or unwillingness of the RBOCs to update their processes to accommodate the service environment is absolutely not a reason to juxtapose competitors or their offerings.
I do believe that this is one reason ASI became a separate entity from SBC....so that the provisioning, OSS, and circuit ordering processes could be their primary focus, so that competitors and other carriers ordering circuits and services from the RBOC could be handled in an expeditious and efficient manner.
It seems that these processes are just another area in which the RBOCs seek to resist competition. Why should that be any different? In the Bell Co's eyes, it is no different.
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The rich get richer, the poorer get the picture, the bombs never hit you when yer down so low...some got pollution, others evolution, there must be some solution but I just don't know....

Shortcomings? That's a little harsh, don't you think? Either way you make it sound as though system limitations are something planned.

In actuality, when designing systems you've got X number of days and Y number of dollars to spend and you try to get as many features in as you can. And at times you are just trying to get the damned thing to work going down the happy path.

"We've got a long way to go and a short time to get there..."

There are a lot of things that current systems can't do that IT groups are probably burning midnight oil on right now.

Hot-swapping ISPs with minimal customer downtime would be a nice feature. That's one reason I stayed on AOL Plus DSL for so long instead of migrating to SBC/Yahoo! sooner.

Easily upgrading a customer to another service. How many people have DSL, and then try to "upgrade" their service and experience downtime. These people *do* exist. Trust me. Don't they deserve to have a priority as well?

SDSL provided by an RBOC. That would be nice. No more *having* to pay for a dial-tone. Sure you can go through COVAD for that. But once again, the one bill mentality may raise it's ugly head.

And how about being able to easily order DSL for multiple locations, as well as dedicated access, back-up dial-up, web hosting, managed messaging, etc. all at once. Granted, you and I aren't likely to do this, but there *IS* a demand for this.

Static IPs. Let's face it. Not everyone can currently get this yet. I can get it. I don't need it. So, I don't have it. But, I know that there are people all over Verizon that were overjoyed when they could finally get rid of that "PPPoE crap" and get a static IP.

Also, you've got all the co-branding going on as well, SBC/Yahoo!, Verizon/MSN. People here may not see much of a convenience for such packages (especially those of the linux OS variety), but co-branding is here to stay. *chuckle* Look how well it works for the local gas station.

Doubtless there are other products, services, and service improvements for current systems that could go into effect for current RBOC dial-tone and RBOC ISP customers that I've not thought of.

But, I can guarantee you that given what I've seen on this website all of these changes are on someone's radar. They have to be. Chances are business requirements are being written up and funding is being savagely fought for to do these things already. Telecommunications companies have to show innovation and growth to survive. And the RBOCs are not immune.

Should this be a priority? Yes. I agree it should be.

But which of the above very worthwhile other projects should be pushed back 1 or 2 years because of it?

Okay, the cobranding is an easy target as far as I'm concerned. But, those contracts are already signed, so you can't take that off the list.
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Note : The statements made by myself on DSL Reports are purely my own and is not in anyway to be considered indicative of the opinions of my employer or of my coworkers.

Only a monopoly can get away with an argument like:

"Sorry customers--- we can't let you have service because we can't figure out how to bill you, and we're not going to fix our system just to get your business..."

Must be nice to be in such a position.
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"When the day comes that anyone can bend our country’s laws and lawmakers to serve selfish, competitive ends, that day democratic government dies" -- Preston Tucker, 1948 (Yep, it's dead.)

reply to BrianDamage

quote:

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I assure you, I have gone over all of the telecom law that exists and have found NOTHING to substantiate the illegality that you claim exists.

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reply to KrK
That's not at all what I said.

What my argument is is that the only way anything gets provisioned is through a system or a highly time consuming and costly manual process.

Since the former has already been put in (with safeguards by the way to minimize people manually "fixing a problem" only to make it ten times worse) to facilitate current processes they must be utilized or radically changed. This also eliminates the "ease" of implementing the latter.

Now, take into consideration an IT budget and planning. For a major project, and let's not try to fool anybody, this will be a major project because you've got at minimum systems in three different companies to work on to get this accomplished. Now, since all budget money for 2003 is being fought for as we speak, or has already been lost and won, squeezing yet another major project into these very full development timelines is going to be very difficult.

But, of course, it *CAN* be done.

Can anybody familiar with IT development timelines tell me that my arguments don't have merit?
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Note : The statements made by myself on DSL Reports are purely my own and is not in anyway to be considered indicative of the opinions of my employer or of my coworkers.

reply to Aggie Dan
Well All I can say is that my DSL is on a RT, which by the way is provided by Bellsouth. Now here's the problem.
Wcom offers a 1.5/768 line say around 70 bucks if your close to the CO, they don't offer it threw our RT. The same service from bellsouth is considered busniess class which means I have to cancle my phone and order a busniess class line for 90 a month, then DSL "768/512" is as high as they go for 230.00. And ontop of that if I wanted to get rid of the PPPoE junk there is one CLEC that offers this same service for 300.00.
Total cost from bell 320.00 verus 70 from Woldcom.

Now thats just crazy. Their are no other options period.
One day I pray I can get a bare pair and not have to have dialtone. With VOIP who needs it anyway. But my point is this. There's no way it cost that much to provide this service and there's nothing I can do about it other than sit here and feel jaded by my telo for not offering me what alot of us want anyway.

ym

reply to KrK
Ok, say, to service X number of customers who pay $50mo, you have to spend $20,000, you would have to have at least 100 customers for 4 months to justify such an expense.

But if they only have 3 customers that are getting dial tone service from someone else that want to get DSL from the "monopoly", then how could they justify spending enough money to fix the system?

And yes, if you are wondering, I just pulled those numbers out of my butt to use as an example. I have no idea what it would cost.
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what does this button do?

reply to boogie74
Literal sarcasm, OHHHH, Booooogieeeeee.....I miss you so!!!
Ok, I'll rephrase...I have been over much of the telecom law that exists that is PERTINENT to the UNE argument.
So, draw whatever conclusion you like, Boog.
The facts are that there are NO limitations, exclusions, or illegalities that would prevent an ILEC from offering DSL to anyone they WANT regardless of who provides their local service.
The question is of the "want".
They don't WANT to do anything at all unless they can have everything THEIR way.
This is why SBC is attempting to blackmail several states' PUCs into believing that unless they revoke the regulations that provide for competition that those states will basically become stone-age examples of what happens unless SBC gets their way.
You can cry about OSS, provisioning, etc., all you want but the sticking point there is that the RBOCs simply refuse to update their processes to easily allow to the exchange of information between ILEC and CLEC, and between RBOC and ASI.
Krk had a good point on that-it must be nice to be able to say "we can't or refuse to accommodate you because of your involvement with competitors" (I paraphrase his point), unless you see things our way and buy services that you don't want or need from us in order to obtain the service(s) you do want or need from us.
There is no reason for this level of extortion to exist in the marketplace.
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The rich get richer, the poorer get the picture, the bombs never hit you when yer down so low...some got pollution, others evolution, there must be some solution but I just don't know....

quote:

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Ok, I'll rephrase...I have been over much of the telecom law that exists that is PERTINENT to the UNE argument.

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First, I never said I had it memorized. You are real good at putting words in people's mouths and sticking your foot into your own.
I don't memorize all of it, nor can I possibly memorize it all-that's why I have most of it in readily accessible (mainly PDF) format.
It's your opinion that my facts or wrong, however, I seem to get a lot more support on my position than you do most times, except your cohorts such as Abe Froman and other SBC employees.
Secondly, I haven't changed my position. You always attempt to misquote folks and discredit them, which is your signature.
Additionally, I never said that the UNE-P average was $32.00 monthly recurring.
What I said was that unbundled loops in use by D-CLECs, examples of which I used being those that are facilities-based, were being made to pay that average.
You continue to use the TELRIC scale and the UNE-P pricing scale in comparison to this argument, which is not pertinent, but is the position your superiors also have taken.
You are not fooling me, nor is your employer fooling everyone with these interpretations of the position, aside from a few gullible but powerful legislators on Capitol Hill who can be "made" to be sympathetic to the RBOC's "plight", and secondarily, really know nothing about the telecom landscape.
This is what happens when you get a bunch of clueless politicians in cahoots with a self-serving mega-corporation, whose only aspiration it is is to preserve the monopoly that exists in the market today and further wishes to reassemble the pre-divestiture monopolitic status it enjoyed back before 1984.
I won't admit to being wrong because I am not wrong. I will also not admit to allowing emotion to overwhelm my opinion, but I believe that it constantly overrides your objectivity.
Your constant display of arrogant sarcasm is a perfect example. This is what YOU do when you are backed into a corner and can't rebut.
I will not resort to that.
And I am sorry if you and Abe think that I say "I, I, I" a lot. Oh well.
I only think that it serves to demonstrate credibility and legitimacy to explain to those others that might follow the thread we face off in that I have quite a bit of experience in many areas of Telecom and that I am not just a laymen with a cable modem.
You should try that sometime. It helps ones' argument immensely.
Touche, and I love tearing you a new one.
(lays pugil stick on ground, smiling.)
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The rich get richer, the poorer get the picture, the bombs never hit you when yer down so low...some got pollution, others evolution, there must be some solution but I just don't know....