Anon | NP Owns my line? Since going dark with my NP service, I've had a clusterfrick trying to find new service. ATT@Home is not available in my neighborhood yet. My house is 7700ft from the CO, yet the lines aren't able to carry ADSL according to Covad and Qwest. I'm being told SDSL or IDSL "may be" available, but they are unsure until they do another test.
I decided to do my own investigation and told Qwest that they did the loop work on my line when Northpoint installed my service. ALthough I always found it strange, I never questioned my ISP about the fact that my DSL service had it's own phone jack which was piggy-backed off of my existing phone jack. Upon questioning QWEST why I wasn't qualified, I was told that the "extra" phone jack was installed by NP with a new line to make DSL service available at my home. Even more strange is, Qwest told me that "Northpoint owns that line" and it's irrelevent to my availability now. My simple response.... "huh?"
Anyone else have this problem? |
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| Yes, it's true. NorthPoint "owns" the circuit. It is NorthPoint, not you or your ISP, who is (was?) your ILEC's customer. But NorthPoint has issued an LOA (Letter Of Authority) to ISPs (and other CLECs?) that they can present to ILECs in order to get the line switched to new DSLAM facilities.
Who is, or was, your ISP? Assuming there are Rhythms, Covad or Edge DSLAMs in your CO, and assuming your ISP has signed with one of them that has, they may be able to get you hot-cut. Then again: I don't know what Qwest's position on hot-cuts is. Verizon and SBC (or at least SBC/Ameritech) have pledged to facilitate hot-cuts upon having the appropriate documentation presented.
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Jim Seymour & Karel the Computer Cat
Agents Provocateurs Extraordinaire
irc://irc.dal.net/#dslreports |
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 taoChaos ImpendsPremium
join:2000-12-03
Lansing, MI | reply to Anon
You have SDSL and could have SDSL again. Cheapest I found was Speakeasy, our hometown national ISP. Currently Covad will rebate the cost of your new modem if you switch.
Good luck,
Mike
PS. NP is bankrupt, they don't own anything.
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I have a 56k Digital Subscriber Line |
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| said by net123:
PS. NP is bankrupt, they don't own anything.
Technically, they do still own things. AT&T bought all of NP's assets, including all the colocation agreements. Our NP lines still connect to DSLAMS in those colocation cages. I can see how ILECs might be waiting for more definitive word as to just which of those NP assets sitting in the COs that AT&T will want.
As I understand Telocity's solution for ex-NP customers, they are NOT going to hot-switch the current lines but will instead lineshare on voice line. When I last checked, my NP line was still happily talking to the DSLAM in the CO. There just wasn't any network beyond the DSLAM. I imagine that will remain the case until AT&T decides exactly what they want to do with that DSLAM and other stuff in NP's cage in the CO. And I wonder if the ILECs will try to collect a charge from AT&T because the line is still up.  |
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 GarageJoeU2 Rocks
join:2001-03-21
Scottsdale, AZ | From what I remember telocity works on SDSL so they wont be able to do any line sharing on a voice line. Also being only 7700 ft from the central office would likely be able to support ADSL from your ILEC. I would ask a more definitive answer as to the reason why they wont give you service. And thirdly you could simply make that line available that NP has leased from your ILEC by simply shutting off service or disconnecting service from them. Unless you do what Jim said and go with a HOT CUT they will charge you a installation fee anyway likely which is sometimes rebated sometimes not (depending on ISP). So in review your choices are: 1)Disconnect your service with ISP (in which the ILEC by federal regulation has 45 days to comply with disconnecting thus making that line available for other use) 2)Get a line test from this site as to actual distance and then take that knowledge to Qwest requesting further review of your status. 3) Go to a local company for ISP and ask for a HOT CUT (It is a federal regulation that all ILEC's comply with HOT CUT (or as known in Qwest (immediate transfer (of services)). Hope this works for you.
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Matthew
Ex-Northpoint, Qwest, Covad OSP Network Technician |
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(It is a federal regulation that all ILEC's comply with HOT CUT (or as known in Qwest (immediate transfer (of services)).
Really? Not that I'm doubting your word, Matthew, but... Say a CLEC has invested some number of dollars in getting that circuit conditioned/provisioned. (For example: NorthPoint would, once-upon-a-time, pay up the $1,500.00 above-and-beyond what was in their contracts with ILECs to get a circuit done) Now the EU comes along and says "Hey ILEC, I want you to move this pair over to this CLEC." Wouldn't that be rather unfair to the CLEC that actually paid to have that pair fixed up?
Or were you talking about a hot-cut where the CLEC that "owned" the pair had issued an LOA to permit it?
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Jim Seymour & Karel the Computer Cat
Agents Provocateurs Extraordinaire
irc://irc.dal.net/#dslreports |
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| reply to GarageJoe
quote:
From what I remember telocity works on SDSL so they wont be able to do any line sharing on a voice line.
The email I received from telocity clearly implied they would be switching Northpoint folks to ADSL lineshare. The ability to do both SDSL and ADSL is part of the explanation of why the telocity gateway brick is so large (and so expensive if you don't send it back to them when you discountinue service). |
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Anon
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possible solution...worked for me. I am also a former NP customer via IBS NUTworks. My NP pair is still running to my house like yours. However, I hadn't mentioned my NP connection to Speakeasy or Verizon so I just "held the flashlight" and played dumb when the Verizon dude came out to hook up new circuit loop outside my house. He discovered the NP connection, then PICKED A FRESH PAIR of wires for my new loop (critical moment, and I watched with bated breath). He decided to bypass it, leaving old NP loop intact, Woo Hoo! So much for that worry.
Inside my house I reclaimed pair in wall jack, I OWN everything in MY HOUSE, not NoPoint. So I'm back in the saddle. Technically I still have a NP loop, its not connected to my wall jack anymore. Adios, NorthPoint...two can play that this game! 
Advice: Keep your lips zipped, and let them figure it all out, chances are they won't or don't care.
Hope it works for you too.
Sincerely,
Stuggmata
former 56k'er, RR Cable, PacSMELL ADSL, NoPoint SDSL, and now running COVAD SDSL USER
[text was edited by author 2001-04-06 20:07:36] |
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GarageJoeU2 Rocks
join:2001-03-21
Scottsdale, AZ | reply to jseymour8
Re: NP Owns my line? Yes, Jim I was referring to the latter statement you made. Once a Clec had issued a LOA statement, then the ILEC has to make the hot cut providing the LOA statement checks out. Sometimes they dont check sometimes they do. As anyone knows there are mix ups in the chain of command at any ILEC (much to our shagrin), but it is federal mandate that they comply with such cuts because it has to do with provision of service which after the deregulation the FCC took very personally for each and every customer. Jim just a suggestion it has worked for me many times over. Any questions you might have about federal regulations just contact your state utility commisioner about any complaints or possible problems. From my experience they have been quite helpful.
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Matthew
Ex-Northpoint, Qwest, Covad OSP Network Technician |
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GarageJoeU2 Rocks
join:2001-03-21
Scottsdale, AZ | reply to mcclella
The email I received from telocity clearly implied they would be switching Northpoint folks to ADSL lineshare. The ability to do both SDSL and ADSL is part of the explanation of why the telocity gateway brick is so large (and so expensive if you don't send it back to them when you discountinue service).
Well Mccella i wont doubt that you are informed more than I. But I would say that the significance of that if that were true would be something new to me. (not saying that doesnt happen very often ) However the "telocity gateway" you speak of as from what i messed with them is nothing more than a bridge. If this is true that it is indeed just a bridge no more than a router than it is conceivable that you could switch between SDSL and ADSL circuits, but from what i have read in the tech magazines that isnt in practice yet nor even used as a outside practice. (again from my knowledge) Again if it were a router, than indeed it would be impossible to switch from a SDSL to ADSL circuit. Just a thought is it possible they were suggesting that they would send you a new "telocity gateway"? Again correct me if I am wrong but isnt the difference between SDSL and ADSL that ADSL will only work on ATM and not frame relay equipment? If this were true as well than the equipment in the CO would have to be switched out as well.
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Matthew
Ex-Northpoint, Qwest, Covad OSP Network Technician |
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| said by GarageJoe:
Well Mccella i wont doubt that you are informed more than I. But I would say that the significance of that if that were true would be something new to me. (not saying that doesnt happen very often )
The following is quote from Telocity email to former Northpoint customers in my area:
When NorthPoint initially delivered your DSL service, the existing voice phone jack was converted or a new phone jack was installed near your computer to support the DSL service. That phone jack will not support your new service -- the Incumbent Local Exchange Carrier to which your
DSL line will be transferred utilizes a new technology that delivers DSL over your existing voice line. You will need to use an existing voice line jack to access your DSL service.
I make no claims to being an expert, but sure sounds like line share to me...
said by GarageJoe:
However the "telocity gateway" you speak of as from what i messed with them is nothing more than a bridge. If this is true that it is indeed just a bridge no more than a router than it is conceivable that you could switch between SDSL and ADSL circuits, but from what i have read in the tech magazines that isnt in practice yet nor even used as a outside practice. (again from my knowledge)
Well, I definitely had SDSL from Phoenix/Northpoint (the 3Com SDSL modem makes a nice paperweight), but the Telocity email says:
We are working with Rhythms to transfer your line.
The maximum speed with Rhythms is up to 1.5 Mbps downstream
and 256 Kbps upstream
Again, I'm not a tech expert, but that implies ADSL doesn't it?
said by GarageJoe:
Just a thought is it possible they were suggesting that they would send you a new "telocity gateway"? Again correct me if I am wrong but isnt the difference between SDSL and ADSL that ADSL will only work on ATM and not frame relay equipment? If this were true as well than the equipment in the CO would have to be switched out as well.
Email implied nothing about getting a new "telocity gateway." To the contrary, it implied that nothing new was needed and that no one would need to make a site visit. And they are switching to a different cage in the CO (rhythms stuff instead of NPs). The equipment in the CO does indeed need to be "switched out" because AT&T owns that now and won't less ex-NP folks use it anymore. On the other hand, my telocity gateway is still happily talking to the DSLAM in the CO, it is only the network beyond that that is dark. |
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GarageJoeU2 Rocks
join:2001-03-21
Scottsdale, AZ | Well good sir I stand corrected, it certainly does sound like ADSL. I thank you for the enlightenment. As well as my sincere thanks for offering the provided statement from telocity letter. Now I have a clearer understanding of there service plans. Thanks again.
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Matthew
Ex-Northpoint, Qwest, Covad OSP Network Technician |
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| said by GarageJoe:
Well good sir I stand corrected, it certainly does sound like ADSL. I thank you for the enlightenment. As well as my sincere thanks for offering the provided statement from telocity letter. Now I have a clearer understanding of there service plans. Thanks again.
Of course, there still remains the issue of whether Telocity can actually deliver what they promised in the email.... |
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Anon | reply to jseymour8
Thanks for the reply. My ISP was Portland Internetworks, who contracted with Rhythms after we went black. The reason I am "Hopeless" is because Rhythms won't supply me service, and Speakeasy gives a good price, but so far I get what I pay for.
Looks like SDSL is still available through a situation similar to what NP did. Covad apparently runs a new "data" line to my home. So I guess there is still hope. |
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| reply to Anon
The difference between ADSL and SDSL is the signaling method. GTE used to offer 768/768 ADSL so you can't tell me it's the upload/download ratio. Also ADSL can run over frame relay as GTE has done, however this requires propreitary equipment.
In theory you could have a device (notice I didn't use the words bridge, router or modem) which has the capability to sync to either SDSL or ADSL, however they would require additional chipsets in the device to support the different line protocols. That's expensive to do. |
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GarageJoeU2 Rocks
join:2001-03-21
Scottsdale, AZ | The difference between ADSL and SDSL is the signaling method.
Agreed
GTE used to offer 768/768 ADSL so you can't tell me it's the upload/download ratio.
Again, I agree however this is not typical of ADSL circuits offered for use.
Also ADSL can run over frame relay as GTE has done, however this requires propreitary equipment.
I wont doubt that you have experience with this type of technology, but I have not ever seen ADSL ran with frame relay. I would benefit greatly if you could provide proof of such.
In theory you could have a device (notice I didn't use the words bridge, router or modem) which has the capability to sync to either SDSL or ADSL, however they would require additional chipsets in the device to support the different line protocols.
In theory that makes sense but exactly what "device" would you be talking about then if not a "bridge, router or modem"?
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Matthew
Ex-Northpoint, Qwest, Covad OSP Network Technician |
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amoiseyevWent For Beer
join:2000-11-14
Worcester, MA | What if not a modem... In theory that makes sense but exactly what "device" would you be talking about then if not a "bridge, router or modem"?
"Telocity Velocity Gateway" known also as "Telocity Monolith", "Telocity Brick" or "Telocity Monster". No any mentions about "bridge, router or modem"... 
Just kidding...
Alex |
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