Topic 'Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux' in forum 'Unix and Linux'

Topic 'Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux' in forum 'Unix and Linux' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7590958 en Wed, 23 Mar 2022 15:01:33 EDT Wed, 23 Mar 2022 15:01:33 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7692356
I really cant see them doing that. For one, its not a visible change that can be marketed to their lamer audience.

Would MS Longhorn sell well if it looked EXACTLY the same as xp, and the only thing different were bug fixes and security improvements ?

Perhaps on a corperate level it would, but the home user might think twice before dropping another $300 for it.

MS sells looks. It sells windows like car dealers sell cars. "Look at this beautiful saturn station wagon... It has AC, ABS, TCS, Airbags from every angle, it has a 300HP engine!"

Sure the car dealer will read off a list of specs, but what he wont tell you is :

the ABS doesnt really work
the TCS is complete garbage
the Airbags cost extra
and the 300HP engine is negated by the 600 ton chasis :)

Now of course no saturn has a 300hp engine, but i'm making a point. A SATURN is a peice of crap car. The dealer will always tell you otherwise though. Usually through distraction, by pointing out buzz words, and noting the vehicles appearance rather than real world performance and quality of build.

Windows is based on this same mentality.

Its why we keep buying new versions of windows :)

She gets prettier and has some new features with each release. The fundemental problems are never addressed and all evidence supports that the existing problems in previous releases are exacerbated with each additional new MS technology.

I'm not saying Linux is flawless or unexploitable. It certainly is, but at the foundation is a more secure os.

What i want to see is MS take a step back. Slow down. Security is a HUGE weakness for MS. The military says so, our government says so, its all over the nightly news every time a new worm is released.

MS's security problems are far greater than ever stated on the evening news. The tv news media outlets (which are for idiots by idiots) never dig deeper as to why the WORMS are so abundant. They never dig deep enough to get to the real cause, and that is MICROSOFT WINDOWS IS A SECURITY DISASSTER

MS has growing negative public image when it comes to security. And if exploits are on the evening news, you know that even the lamest of lamers is going to start thinking "gee, maybe i dont order from amazon.com anymore" or "maybe i wont do anything personaly on my pc anymore" or "maybe i should try linux, cause i never see these kinds of reports on tv"

Granted linux exploits arent on the evening news simply due to the number of users vs ms users. Ratings wins all.

Anyways. MS has a negative image in the security department.
Average home users who leech off of Kaza are now worried about their security due to the RIAA, and now even they are questioning "what can i do to be more secure?"

People want privacy and security, for whatever reason. And they deserve it.

If they feel strongly enough, they'll find a solution for themselves.

Linux has its own PR image problems. Lamers have no clue about it.

People know windows because MS has branded it like coca-cola. Its a house hold name. EVERY major retail electronics store sells windows apps, and hardware.

People can trust that very fact. They see Windows everywhere. They know windows.

Now until someone gets Linux on every shelf, with major brand name games, hardware support etc, the average person will avoid linux.

Perhaps thats best?

Best for who? Best for the elitests? Is it really best?

Think about all of the lambo and ferrari owners. When their car breaks, do they take it to pep boys? No. Lets say you're in the middle of no where and your ferrari breaks. Do you think you'll be getting that highly specialized part needed to fix the engine at Billy Bob's gas and stop ?

But if your honda breaks, you can bring it just about everywhere to get fixed because every tech knows hondas. If you need a part, they're all over the place.

The best thing is, linux is a ferrari that can be fixed without the help of the "ferrari corperation" But we still rely on hardware vendors!

Linux needs to win the lamer audience. But in true linux fashion, linux users want to educate that lamer audience, rather than dumb itself down to win over the lamers.

My understanding of linux is that its made by folks who value education and intellect. And further more they value the experience of learning, exploration and so forth. Thats why the OPEN source movement exists. Thats why linux is a Hacker os. Its for folks who want to learn.

And now the mission is to entice those who HATE TO LEARN :)

The mission is to win over folks who just want to use their PC as if it were a toaster, and not a mathematical machine capable of virtually almost anything.

But again, i ask if that is indeed the mission.

Do linux users really want that?

What happens if linux wins and MS decides to code its own linux flavor? :)

I'm not sure of the master plan that most linux users have in mind. BUT I DO KNOW THIS.

All linux users want hardware vendor support. We want open sourced drivers from the major hardware vendors.

I think pretty much everything else Linux users, coders, and admins can all handle themselves because linux is dependent on its community and not a single entity. The community is talented and visionary.

I cant list a single thing that the linux community can not do vs say Microsoft. The only thing is drive. Money drives MS employees. What drives linux wizards? :)

Hatred for MS?
...nah

A revolution?

...perhaps.

Evolution?
...getting closer.

Knowledge?
...yup

The idea that computers can change the world?
...uh huh

And the world having a say in how it changes the world?
...bingo.

So where does linux go? Who the hell knows. But we all know what we need and want from it. We know what we like, and what we dont like about it. Best thing is... WE CAN CHANGE IT.

Now try to change Windows. Good luck.

History is proof that MS only changes based on an already existing visionary creation/movement created by someone else totally unreleated to Microsoft.

Microsoft either buys out the idea, or copies it.

The individual cases of this are well known and are easily listed in a very long and detailed form.

[text was edited by author 2003-08-15 18:15:00]
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7692356 Fri, 15 Aug 2003 18:04:47 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7691665 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7691665 Fri, 15 Aug 2003 16:42:17 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7688142
They talk as if they where born with a computer running Wintendos in their crib.

If you spent the same amount of time learning Linux as you did with Wintendos you would have a different prospective.
--
If Operating Systems Were Women? : »www.sigkill.com/os/ ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7688142 Fri, 15 Aug 2003 09:56:54 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7687543 said by Maven:

I've tried Linux (Mandrake 9) a few weeks ago out of curiosity... Taking a peek on the other side of the fence at the greener grass, as someone put it. I felt comfortable during setup, as it was actually easier than installing Windows 9x/ME. I was specifically impressed by the fact that it re-partitioned my hard-disk for me, something one cannot do using Win2k/XP's setup (to my knowledge). After the setup though, it went downhill from there. Linux was not freedom, it was foreign territory and I just wanted to go back home to Windows.

* First off, the installation was much larger than I expected. It was roughly the same size as Windows XP! I expected Linux to be smaller than Windows, but I guess I was wrong. Now, I do realize this depends on which distro is used. But I needed a GUI and ease of use, so I chose Mandrake.

* The speed of the GUI was slower than any flavour of Windows I tried, even a default Windows XP installation. Windows by default is not exactly as fast as I'd want, but knowing Windows, I can tweak it to my liking. After disabling some fluff, it feels snappy and that's what I want.

* Things don't just work. I had to fiddle around for 20 minutes before getting my internet connection going. The refresh rate was low, so I wanted to set it at my usual 85Hz. Seeing as I could not select it, I wrote my custom refresh rate. Will the eye fatigue stop? Yes, because now Linux won't even boot into the GUI. I ended up with a command prompt. I wrote the command to start the GUI, but receive an error message. I just gave up at that point.

I will admit Windows has it's fair share of problems, but at least I know where I am. So until I hear about a distro that has a nice eye-candy GUI, is easy to use, feels snappy, has a light installation size, plays my games and just plain works, I'm sticking to Windows.
[text was edited by author 2003-08-09 03:22:50]

I have to say, most people trying it first do feel that it's foreign territory, just because you've been using M$ OSes for lots of years and linux only a few minutes.

I would advise to keep it a bit and try to shape yourself back to your original self (before you were being used to rebooting and windows)

the size is roughly the same as a M$, but you have 2 à 3 office suites, 2 à 5 window managers, all sorts of multimedia, and games and lots of other stuff, so you could always shrink down or install less

you can tweak windows better because you've been using it more than linux of course. but I feel this: why should linux be somewhat similar to windows? what would even be the point?

much of GUI slowness can be attributed to drivers not made available for linux, so more general drivers are used.

you are very right about the improving within 2 years, the 2.6 final kernel is almost out and that will fasten block operations, i hear. so when mdk10 will come out It 'll be very very good, i think.

so I'm waiting in agony to try it out.

I feel that most people need gradual reprogramming to the original self, after windows had reprogrammed them. I know this is true for me.

I was very skeptical to linux at first, but gradually it became my primary desktop, even for my family, because I was sick and tired of always needing to reinstall, and most of the time that was on a very bad moment...

good luck to all you people, and when(not if) you windows users become sick of faults, rebooting and reinstalling, come pay us a visit and we'll gladly help you out...
--
Alien is my name and headbiting is my game.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7687543 Fri, 15 Aug 2003 08:14:25 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7687458
this is the difference:

- linux tries to make good software
- windows tries to compete monetary
- linux will never have a deadline for releasing their software
- windows is only interested in their deadline for making as much money as possible

well, if the american way is to make money at all costs, I don't want any of it.

the whole american system is the same:
-have lots of risks to maximize the moneymaking, nothing will ever go wrong, because we're americans!

but to get back on track:
-linux is never trying to compete.
-windows should put their money in maximizing the stability and functionality(meaning no bugs) instead of making sure everyone is using windows through commercials and moneybashing other OSes and sueing other OSes and buying over others...

competition comes freely if you just want to make a good product, but M$ is just a coward betting on all horses...
--
Alien is my name and headbiting is my game.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7687458 Fri, 15 Aug 2003 07:49:46 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7639515 --
Still beating, after all these years.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7639515 Sun, 10 Aug 2003 09:52:08 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7639420 Ended up I skipped that stage and bought a Pulsar 386 instead.
Yep took that long to save up the money.
--
If you are worrying about typing and spelling errors then the message is not important ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7639420 Sun, 10 Aug 2003 09:33:54 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7638934
i think linux has a great future. there's so many people contributing to it's development. since it's open source, it won't just dissapear. window$, on the other hand, can be "canceled". even though micro$oft is a corp., people just invest money, not development, into the window$ os. i shouldn't even compare linux to micro$oft their purposes are so different.

anyway, fock longhorn. i won't be using it, and hope no one else will either. and in two years, i picture linux still doing what it does best; being a powerful, non-invasive os.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7638934 Sun, 10 Aug 2003 06:30:16 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7633962
Longhorn is 2 years away, so that should give time for certain Linux distros to reach my expectations. Besides, will Longhorn be that bad? If it is, I don't see how Microsoft could survive. Certain distros are becoming easier to use as time passes, and I'm sure will be a decent alternative for most people 2 years from now.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7633962 Sat, 09 Aug 2003 15:36:36 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7630959
it's ok though, because i was in your same position. i almost hated linux at one point, because of all the work that had to be done just to get it to do something that window$ did automatically. i can't count the hours i've spent trying to get things working in linux. in the past year, i have tried 11 different distros, and in the process, have learned a lot about linux.

even after all of the hell, i was still attracted to linux. to me, it seems like a divine responsibility. linux is freedom. you are not confined to use software optimized only i386 and up. you can compile it from source to custom fit your machine. if i'm not mistaken, window$ is compiled for i586 arch. i compiled my linux kernel to custom fit my athlon, an nothing else.

i started using linux because i did not like the future i saw for micro$oft. longhorn will require special hardware modifications to run. and software will not run unless it has a special licence. micro$oft is aiming to eliminate ALL software piracy. when i heard of this i said "who needs this crap". i figured this would be a good time to learn linux to prepare myself. basically, you just need to give it some time. it takes some time, maturity, and reading, but if you don't want to be a victim of longhorn, then you will want to come back to linux. it's your choice, i'm just trying to give you some info to help you make the right one ;)
[text was edited by author 2003-08-09 06:30:52]
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7630959 Sat, 09 Aug 2003 05:16:14 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7630735 What desktop did you choose? KDE in particular likes *LOTS* of RAM. I've seen machines go from being sluggish with 128MB, to snappy with 256MB, and downright fast with 512MB.
What are you using for an Internet connection? Dialup or broadband? Was the problem in not detecting your hardware, or getting it configured?
Fiddling with the video takes some care, or you can wind up with a non-functional system as you did. You should be able to boot from the CD and repair it, though.
As far as playing your games, getting Windows games to run on Linux can be difficult, generally requiring you to run wine, and even then it's not guaranteed.
Linux isn't for everyone, at least not yet. Depending on your hardware, it can take quite a bit of patience and skill to get it running smoothly. The same "power" can cut both ways if you're not careful. I turned a fixed-frequency monitor into a smoking pile of junk once, before I understood what I was doing.
drjim
--
One man's Magic is another man's Engineering.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7630735 Sat, 09 Aug 2003 03:28:37 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7630702
* First off, the installation was much larger than I expected. It was roughly the same size as Windows XP! I expected Linux to be smaller than Windows, but I guess I was wrong. Now, I do realize this depends on which distro is used. But I needed a GUI and ease of use, so I chose Mandrake.

* The speed of the GUI was slower than any flavour of Windows I tried, even a default Windows XP installation. Windows by default is not exactly as fast as I'd want, but knowing Windows, I can tweak it to my liking. After disabling some fluff, it feels snappy and that's what I want.

* Things don't just work. I had to fiddle around for 20 minutes before getting my internet connection going. The refresh rate was low, so I wanted to set it at my usual 85Hz. Seeing as I could not select it, I wrote my custom refresh rate. Will the eye fatigue stop? Yes, because now Linux won't even boot into the GUI. I ended up with a command prompt. I wrote the command to start the GUI, but receive an error message. I just gave up at that point.

I will admit Windows has it's fair share of problems, but at least I know where I am. So until I hear about a distro that has a nice eye-candy GUI, is easy to use, feels snappy, has a light installation size, plays my games and just plain works, I'm sticking to Windows.
[text was edited by author 2003-08-09 03:22:50]
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7630702 Sat, 09 Aug 2003 03:17:26 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7630285 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7630285 Sat, 09 Aug 2003 01:40:49 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7629988 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7629988 Sat, 09 Aug 2003 00:52:04 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7629939 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7629939 Sat, 09 Aug 2003 00:45:48 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7629829
WINDOWS makes linux look good!

:)

All linux needs is driver and hardware support from the hardware sector and that is growing. IT NEEDS TO IMPROVE DRAMATICALLY though.

SOFTWARE support. Linux needs more serious software support. Also advertising :) Linux needs to get the word out. Of course advertising a FREE OS during the superbowl isnt exactly profitable :)

Linux is incredible. The fact that its built with security and multi user environments (HOME AND OFFICE) in mind, puts it on top of the list.

The average AOL mom can even use it. You just need to drag them screaming and kicking away from AOL first.

LINUX is a very capable home OS. Perhaps it needs a few more apps but its ready.

The movement is growing. How do i know? I'm running linux now. I started back on c64s, vic20s, dos vx.x os/2, macs, apple 2es, all of the windows versions from 3.1 and up.

Hell i even ran deskview and bbs when i was 15. So i've been around. But as a profesional computer user now... i've been windows only for some time.

Until now.

I still do the majory of my work (which is art work) in windows. I'm a 3d animator and editor for video production and videogames. So windows has linux beat there still. (although even that is shifting quite a bit to linux these days... not enough yet.. but the movement is there and is great)

Infact the movement is so big, it reminds me of the same movement that created the "NT workstation" When major 3d apps moved from SGI and SUN to windows NT 3.51

That movement was a big help to windows. Beleive me. BUT NOW that same movement is growing towards linux. So only time will tell. But i smell a revolution once again, just like i did then.

Linux has its small problems. But overall, the work flow in Gnome and other guis are very powerful. Toss in linux's shells, and you have endless power.

Microsoft just doesnt give a dam about the command line and it shows. They really hate it. Strangely enough, it is often (but not always) the fastest way to work.

Microsoft has one thing going for it, a fast GUI that runs very fluidly compared to gnome and the like. Linux's gui's need to improve a little but man they are so close to destroying windows. I mean my mom could use linux now if i installed it on her computers. AND GET THIS. She came over and saw my computer and asked "whats this?" I said "linux" She being a very stocks and bonds aware person said "Oh, i know linux"... "i like this"

Now if MOM likes linux... Microsoft watch out. (i just have to get her off aOL and i'll drop linux on her pc fast:)

Anyways. Linux is better from the ground up. Theres no doubt. We all know it. I'm running linux now on this pc at home. It used to be an XP machine. I dont think i'll be switching back. Sorry.

My other PCs are XP though. But they're for artwork and i need certain apps on windows and linux just isnt there yet for me. Partialy its the gui speed that worries me. But i know many of the apps i use in windows for artwork, are on linux now. (Maya, Softimage XSI, renderman, etc)

Come on adobe... get photoshop 8 on linux! Hopefully sonic foundry will bring over Vegas to linux one day.

The movement is in full swing. It swept me up. And i bought a slackware book and disk years ago when i was 17. I installed it, then dumped it. :) So you got me finally.

I'm here.

Many more are coming.

I hope MS is ready for the FREE open source world, because you cant compete with FREE quality software.

If the software is better, and FREE. No one can compete.

Cheers to linux and all of the developers out there who take their FREE time, to develope FREE software. You're doing the world a great service by treating people with respect and dignity.

And in all seriousness these devs could charge for their work, and many dont. So what does that say about these folks.

It speaks volumes of their character, and ability. The best security experts in the world are unix users. Mostly linux users.

If the most talented admins and coders are in linux... Its gotta say something doesnt it?
[text was edited by author 2003-08-09 00:34:31]

[text was edited by author 2003-08-09 00:37:50]
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7629829 Sat, 09 Aug 2003 00:31:53 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7627934 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7627934 Fri, 08 Aug 2003 20:27:47 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7627568 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7627568 Fri, 08 Aug 2003 19:45:46 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7627121

All Linux

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7627121 Fri, 08 Aug 2003 18:58:59 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7626545 quote:

if linux had one distro, less people would use. the point to having distros, is to have a choice of works best for you.

quote:
if all the linux fans and gurus got together and actually agreed on something, like working on one distro, we would have a great linux based os.

Both Rh9 and yourself have valid points but I think neither is a better choice than the other. Linux "could" get better either way really.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7626545 Fri, 08 Aug 2003 17:53:54 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7626250 said by rh9:

"just choosing a distro that works for you" thats the problem, unless you are a "guru" you have no idea what is good for you. unfortunately, you have to go thru the trouble of trying them all, fixing them all, before you decide. is there a reference manual that helps you decide?
did i mention i am a linux user?

For me choice is only a good thing if you have plenty of time or a third party dispensing real-world advice. How do I know which laundry detergent is best? -- that's why I subscribe to Consumers Reports.

Here are two links I send to folks that want to make an informed choice:
»www.distrowatch.com/dwre ··· ce=major
»www.extremetech.com/arti ··· 0,00.asp]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7626250 Fri, 08 Aug 2003 17:16:59 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7626068 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7626068 Fri, 08 Aug 2003 16:57:37 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7624484 did i mention i am a linux user?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7624484 Fri, 08 Aug 2003 14:04:56 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7623294 *NOW* you're starting to act trollish. As a general rule, we don't have anything against Windows users. Many of us have Windows machines, or dual-boot machines. We're willing to help most anybody learn or *intelligently* discuss the two operating systems. I remember when some of our more valued members first came here acting like complete dunderheads, and now they're quite good at what they do and contribute.
You're starting to get close to pissing us ALL off. Kindly watch your step and attitude.
--
One man's Magic is another man's Engineering.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7623294 Fri, 08 Aug 2003 11:59:32 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7622973
Just looking well fast look down not one of you said yes I hear about this, seen it on a site etc. Well bring this big topic down to a close this was for sure a hit. Not that I just posted it for that or anything but sure did turn up the heat some.
[text was edited by author 2003-08-08 11:31:16]
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7622973 Fri, 08 Aug 2003 11:25:01 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7622957 said by Microsoft 98:

I voted because I seen to p!ss off you linux users over this topic. And yea I don't know s!it about linux, I just post news to you about this.

Go back to Windows oops I pulled a Steve :)

Seriously, if that is your intention, why are you posting here? If you come in here trolling, you can sure as hell bet that it will piss some of us off.

Time to go Premium and get that Ignore function]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7622957 Fri, 08 Aug 2003 11:22:44 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7622891 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7622891 Fri, 08 Aug 2003 11:15:57 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7622843 quote:

If you are serious about using Linux, you will find something that works for you.

If you were really serious wouldn't you just make your own "breed" of linux?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7622843 Fri, 08 Aug 2003 11:10:12 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7622817 said by rh9:

anyway, if all the linux fans and gurus got together and actually agreed on something, like working on one distro, we would have a great linux based os. it wont happen tho, bill has control over his work, linus does not.

That's the beauty of Linux. If you don't like one distro, try another. If you are serious about using Linux, you will find something that works for you. You could try one designed to appeal to the masses, like RedHat, or you can try something that's less mainstream, like Slackware (thanks, Pat). And Linus does have control over his work, the kernel. Much of the rest of Linux is GNU tools, and Linus never had anything to do with them (besides using them). When I first started using Linux, and struggled with it -
different startup scripts
different directory structures
different package management
my thoughts were the same as yours. Now I see it as a strength, not a weakness. Choice, that's what it's all about. If there was only one distro, such as RedHat, I would find using it much less enjoyable.
Viva la difference!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7622817 Fri, 08 Aug 2003 11:06:49 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7622173 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7622173 Fri, 08 Aug 2003 09:57:42 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7621550 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7621550 Fri, 08 Aug 2003 07:55:52 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7620793 --
http ://groups.msn.com/OfficialWindows98And98SecondEditionHelpSite]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7620793 Fri, 08 Aug 2003 02:33:40 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7617440 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7617440 Thu, 07 Aug 2003 19:57:48 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7616003 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7616003 Thu, 07 Aug 2003 17:21:17 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7615688 said by Microsoft 98:

You want mac you need to buy off there [sic] web site or call.

Again, you are sadly misinformed...Apple has retail stores all over the US. CompUSA also has a Mac selection. Best Buy is also beginning to carry Macs again.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7615688 Thu, 07 Aug 2003 16:48:44 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7613836 said by Microsoft 98:

Well back in 97 when I first started with computers there was no linux around or was not in stores if I can remember so had no choice.

There might have been linux in 97 but everything was windows and happens to be still today any new pc you buy you got windows. You want mac you need to buy off there web site or call.

ok, i understand now. you're not trying to start linux/window$ battles, you just don't know as much about linux as you do about window$ :) thats ok, because window$ is the os you use, after all. well, the first linux kernel was released in 1991. it was version 0.01. in 1993, the first well known public linux distribution was released, called "slackware". ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7613836 Thu, 07 Aug 2003 13:32:59 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7613762
Not every PC that is sold has Windows with it. TigerDirect and Walmart.com sell pc's with Mandrake Linux and Lindows. HP, Compaq, and sell Linux workstations. Dell used to sell Red Hat as an option. There are options available, but you must do the digging for them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7613762 Thu, 07 Aug 2003 13:23:33 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7613666 drjim
--
One man's Magic is another man's Engineering.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7613666 Thu, 07 Aug 2003 13:14:21 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7613454
There might have been linux in 97 but everything was windows and happens to be still today any new pc you buy you got windows. You want mac you need to buy off there web site or call.
--
http ://groups.msn.com/OfficialWindows98And98SecondEditionHelpSite]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7613454 Thu, 07 Aug 2003 12:51:43 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7607654
in Gates' case those jobs are on their way to India and Mexico--good for him and job creation]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7607654 Wed, 06 Aug 2003 19:39:18 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7607183 said by nixen:

Much prefer PuTTY and its suite of tools. :)

-tom

Yeah, I also use Putty as a client to SSH into remote boxes, but it doesn't work well as a server,
which is what I use the win32 SSH for. We have one W2000 box that has some development tools on it, so we set up a SSH server on it, then use the command line SSH client so developers can SSH in and let jobs run, and they can do it all from the W2000 CLI, so they are comfortable with it. They wanted to use telnet, I am much more comfortable with this setup. And for moving lots of files, such as to a web server, WinSCP works pretty nice-pointy clicky, drag and drop stuff. Some days I just tire of typing, my three fingers that I use wear out.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7607183 Wed, 06 Aug 2003 18:42:46 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7607042 said by nixen:

said by stateq2:
you say, "I'm pretty damm sure you used windows before so". who hasn't used window$? does that prove your point? no.

The real question is, did you use Windows because you wanted to? In my case, the answer is no. My first computer usage preceded Windows being made available to the public (by a decade plus). I started out on Apple ]['s. When I got to college in the late 80's, I used Macintosh's (Oh, yeah! Ugly little breadboxes!). Then, I discovered one of the campus's Unix labs: Sun 3/60's, SPARC 2's and NeXTCubes everywhere. I managed to finagle an account and became a Unix weenie. When I didn't have lab access to the Unix systems, I found Coherent and then Slackware for my PC. It wasn't until after college, when I got a job, that things started to go sour. First, I had to use DOS systems that used either Novell or Banyan to talk to each other. Eventually Windows for Workgroups started showing up at job sites. Finally NT. I was able to retreat from those horrors by working for a Unix ISP and then a Unix vendor, but afterwards... "We use Windows 2000 as the corporate standard. You must use OutLook/Exchange for your email". So now, I am stuck using NT/XP as my primary desktop, using Xmanager to connect to my Ultra 5 (company won't replace it with newer tech, because they would rather Unix on the desktop simply go away).

said by stateq2:
i think information should be free. i don't like the idea of licenses you have to pay for.

Then there's going to be software, even for Linux, that you aren't going to like.

said by stateq2:
LINUX IS NOT WINDOWS, so please find another os to compare it to.

But that's what trolls do! They come into forums that are dedicated to certain topics, then blither on, sometimes coherently (though not in this case), about how much the forum's topic sucks compared to something else.

So, that said...


                                    ______________ 
                        /|  /| |   |              |
                        ||__|| |   |  Please do   |
                       /   O O\__  |   not feed   |
                      /          \ |  the trolls  |
                     /      \     \|______________|
                    /   _    \     \      ||              
                   /    |\____\     \     ||              
                  /     | | | |\____/     ||              
                 /       \|_|_|/   |     _||              
                /  /  \            |____| ||              
               /   |   |           |      --|             
               |   |   |           |____  --|             
        * _    |  |_|_|_|          |     \-/              
     *-- _--\ _ \                  |      ||              
       /  _     \\        |        /      `               
     *  /   \_ /- |       |       |                       
       *      ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________

:)

-tom

who likes all software made for linux? free or not. it's very illogical to think that anyone would blindly follow any OS just because they like it as a whole. I still have window$ xp on my hard drive. i use it about once per month. i like it. of course, i had to reinstall it 5 times in the past year, but it is there for compatability reasons.

my point is, i'm not an idiot. just because i think linux it superior, doesn't mean that i am going to ignore society like a retard. desktop wise, this is a window$ world, so it is impossible to think otherwise. as far as trolls....................i don't think they've been eating lately. if they do, it's not my fault. disagree?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7607042 Wed, 06 Aug 2003 18:23:58 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7606449 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7606449 Wed, 06 Aug 2003 17:11:48 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7606385 said by nirvansk815:

Now, if your in it to learn thats great but I can't and wont recommend having an OS thats "complex" to use for "simple" tasks. It just doesn't make since.

At some point, new users need to learn how to use Windows too. The fact of the matter is, they ended up learning how to use Windows first and don't want to bother learning something new. And they don't have to, if Windows does everything they want. Linux, after I learned how to use it, fits my needs better, and that's why I use it. There are plenty of tasks that I see to be simpler in Linux than in Windows.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7606385 Wed, 06 Aug 2003 17:03:46 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7606337 quote:

Others have an idealogy of efficiency, which is what I believe is most prevelant in Linux. I can delete all the files from someone else's home directory by typing "rm -rf /home/Mike" whereas in windows I must first launch the graphical file browser, navigate to /home, then click once on the directory, hit delete, click okay to say that I'm sure I really want to delete it, and then go and empty the recycle bin. That's because windows was designed to be for all intents and purposes "idiot-proof" (or at least partially idiot-proof). Ease of use was the prevailing school of thought with the design of windows, not efficiency, security, or making things work. However in recent times Linux has become more usable than for the mainstream user than in the past.

That is like saying, "We'll we have a grocery store, but lets be more efficient ( and get off on ourselves) and kill our own food, and live off the land and never be wasteful, or ignorant. I like to know all my options whether they be complex or simple but why live hard if you don't have to? Why painstakingly do simply tasks when someone already has mastered the process for you? (Microsoft...its their job people)? Now, if your in it to learn thats great but I can't and wont recommend having an OS thats "complex" to use for "simple" tasks. It just doesn't make since.

Sorry if off topic
[text was edited by author 2003-08-06 16:59:43]
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7606337 Wed, 06 Aug 2003 16:57:50 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7605926 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7605926 Wed, 06 Aug 2003 16:10:53 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7605768
This whole topic is a religious issue and in this regard I'm an agnostic. I use both Win2k/XP and Linux and each has its place. My first OS was BSD running on VAX 11/750. Hated DOS and anything before Win2k. Loved Mac, Solaris, and Apollo. For me, Win2k/XP is easier for web research (ease of use and easier on the eyes) and also content creation and web development. Personally I like RedHat BlueCurve theme but most of my time is spent in Gentoo -- wish I could "emerge" good looking themes/fonts/browsers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7605768 Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:52:33 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7605761 said by cwnorris:

And if you want win32 SSH, try this:
»lexa.mckenna.edu/sshwindows/
and this:
»winscp.sourceforge.net/eng/

Much prefer PuTTY and its suite of tools. :)

-tom
--
You can be only -so- accurate with a sledgehammer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7605761 Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:52:05 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7605644 said by bbarrera:

Although cygwin gives you same benefits, I miss having bash, grep, sed, and all the other command line tools. Thankfully WinXP has tab completion so you don't have to double quote directory names when working at the command line.

A little OT to the discussion, but you might want to give these a try:
»www.weihenstephan.de/~sy ··· ils.html
Stick them all in a directory, add it to your PATH, you're all set.
And if you want win32 SSH, try this:
»lexa.mckenna.edu/sshwindows/
and this:
»winscp.sourceforge.net/eng/
I'm not taking any side in this argument, as I use both, and see the strengths and weaknesses of both. But it is nice to have a little help with command line tools that Microsoft doesn't supply.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7605644 Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:39:57 EDT Re: Microsoft goes unemotional on Linux http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7605418 Look at the progression between KDE 2 and 3 and now 3.1.1 or look at the latest offerings for Gnome, for a GUI they are amazing. Evolution is simply amazing, open office is always getting better, K3B works better for me then Easy CD Creator 5 Plat, and for the difference in price I am happy to learn.
The list goes on.
And if you sit down to install one of the major distro's you will find out that they install faster and more easily then anything from Microsoft.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Microsoft-goes-unemotional-on-Linux-7605418 Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:18:40 EDT