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 MikePremium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
W.O.W.
FairPoint
World of Warcraft
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Verizon Wireless
| Poll - Northpoint transaction (fixed verison)
[text was edited by author 2001-05-06 19:04:02] | | |
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 KibblesPremium
join:1999-07-31
Mission Viejo, CA | Still down...47 days since the line went dead and 40 days since the order was accepted.
--
Netopia router with a green light:( :»www.satsujin.org »www.akita-inu.com | |
 ARPremium,ExMod 2001-04
join:2000-09-21
Toronto, ON | reply to Mike
Got luck with Pac Bell getting me up and running on 10 days.
Lesson learnt: always buy from the Big Boyz. They will not file Chp 11. | |
 skvngrx
join:2000-10-24
Arlington, VA | reply to Mike
Argh... 48 days and counting. Phoenix migration to Telocity was ugly enough - now it's been 48 days since Northpoint went down. I'm hearing people saying how quickly they were brought back up - not so with me. 3 weeks ago, I was quoted "in the next week or two, you should be reprovisioned with Verizon and we will send you a new modem". Finally just got a new answer out of somebody at Telocity - "we're still working out deals with different carriers - we're not sure if it will be with Verizon or who. We're quoting 90-120 days from April 18th." Verizon's tech repair department, for their part, show absolutely no lines requested or changes to current lines, etc. at my address for the past 3 months.
So what, 2-3 months more waiting for something to happen? Ugh.
-Kevan | |
 Cyklone
join:2000-04-15
White Plains, NY | reply to Mike
Still down since April 3rd.
Had/have options to go with Rhythms or Verizon, amongst others, but holding out for better. Grrr | |
 rchandraStargate Universe fanPremium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
| reply to Mike
Gee wilikers...I guess I got extremely lucky.
•ATM stops flowing 29-Mar-2001
•Place Web order for Verizon late afternoon 30-Mar; SRD set for 23-Apr (ugh!)
•DMTing morning of 5-Apr 
•account created and operating ever since, evening of 5-Apr
•So far, Telocity has neither charged me additionally nor interfered with the Verizon connection (figured they might have placed a disconnect order for my phone line instead of for the NorthPoint dry pair circuit).
[text was edited by author 2001-05-16 19:58:00] | |
skvngrx
join:2000-10-24
Arlington, VA | so how would you compare the two? speed, ping rates, static vs PPPoE, etc...
I've had a couple calls from Verizon offering DSL in the meantime, but I need static IP(hosting a website [personal]) and I've just heard so many bad things.
If I could just rid myself of having anything to do with ILECs or the cable company, I'd be happy. I figured with DSL through an ISP/CLEC combo and the dish, I'd be ok. "Broadband" is just proving itself to be so fickle.
-Kevan | |
rchandraStargate Universe fanPremium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
| said by skvngrx:
so how would you compare the two? speed,
That depends upon when you're asking, and what aspect. When I was initially set up @ 768K, it was 30% faster (at about 80KBytes/s vs. my present 60K/s), but less stable than when they knocked me down to 416K. At 416K, I was 30% slower, which was most of the time I had TelHellocity. Connecting from work to VNC at home was better because it was 390K (average spd., OK) vs. 70K (average spd., barely tolerable), but after the speed upgrade (128K sync rate) which is supposed to happen this week, I imagine it will be a little better than "just tolerable."
said by skvngrx:
ping rates,
They were about the same, except if you're talking about TelHellocity's screwed up routers and backbone...but the local loop (when it was working) to the first IP address had about the same latency. So mainly, Verizon wins on that one, because what really matters is characteristics to where you want to go, not so much the local loop.
said by skvngrx:
static vs PPPoE,
What can I say? PPPoE is a pain in the behind, steals some of your bandwidth, but once you get it set up, you mostly forget about it, so it's pretty much a non-issue. I just recently put in a BEFSR41 which mostly handles it for me (except for updating DynDNS.org), so I don't even use the CPU for that anymore. Lack of static addressing just isn't that much of a problem, really...not with services that are around like DynDNS.org, Hammernode, ZoneEdit, and so on.
said by skvngrx:
etc...
"etc.?" ...depends on what else you want to know.
But I will say that for whatever reasons, the TelHellocity line was up and down like a yoyo, even at the slowest configurable speed. At first blush and w/o access to everything, I would blame this mostly on TelHellocity's engineering of their modem/router ("Gateway"). But I guess it would be comparing apples (2B1Q) to oranges (DMT). DMT seems to be a lot more flexible and robust. As a result, I don't know what Verizon tech. support is really like, because the only reason I had to call them is to ask about the possibility of banning TelHellocity from touching my line in any way (including disconnecting it). If you ask me, it's much better when your line is working so well that you DON'T need to call at all; it just works.
The two biggest negatives I have about VZ are that they charged me for a missed prem. visit when I asked for self-installation (but they took money out of my bank account anyway through direct debit but wouldn't put it back, even after admitting they never should have charged me for it in the first place) and their insistence on using Netscape to ruin (yes, in some aspects, trash) the setup of your computer for account creation. Yeah, your computer mostly functions after installing then removing Netscape, but you either have to be a registry expert or reinstall Internet Explorer to get your proper .html et. al. associations back. I guess it's not a problem if you prefer Netscape in the first place. I would, if only their Win32 product worked exactly like their GNU/Linux product. But as it is, they wimped out and make everyone use the right mouse button menu instead of the middle mouse button alone to open a link in a new window, Ctrl-F instead of Alt-F for finding text within a page, and so on, e.g., they wanted to make it work more like IE on Win32.
Another negative is the wording of their ToS (although Adelphia is even worse). But almost everyone holds their nose on that one and just prays they don't misuse some of the clauses (like an email ostensibly from you as being as if you have signed it. HELLLOOOOOO!!!!!? Ever hear of GPG/PGP and digital signatures? Eeeesh!).
Also, if it wasn't for a friend of mine who cancelled his service, and was able to provide me with a DMT modem, I would have been waiting a week past my Service Ready Date for my modem. But mostly I hear that people get their modem shortly after ordering, so mine was a rare case I guess.
said by skvngrx:
I need static IP(hosting a website [personal])
No, make that "want" instead of "need" and I'll believe you. With the aforementioned FREE dynamic DNS services, you don't need one. There are also commercial (moderately priced, mind you) DNS organizations (TZO comes to mind) that you can use if you're worried that the free ones will go under or want someone to go after if there's a screwup. But so far I've been really happy just using hal9000.dnsalias.net (DynDNS.org). Like I wrote, it's one of those things you set up once (establish an account, install an updater client) and rarely touch again. About the only thing you CAN'T do with a dynamic address is something that depends SPECIFICALLY on an IP address instead of a name, such as being a DNS zone master (but again, ZoneEdit, GraniteCanyon, TZO, etc. make this a lot less necessary).
said by skvngrx:
and I've just heard so many bad things.
It's human nature not to praise but to complain, so you're almost always going to hear more negatives than positives.
said by skvngrx:
If I could just rid myself of having anything to do with ILECs or the cable company, I'd be happy.
Then you have issues anyway.
said by skvngrx:
I figured with DSL through an ISP/CLEC combo and the dish, I'd be ok. "Broadband" is just proving itself to be so fickle.
If you're looking for reliability and quick resolution, why add the DCLEC layer? Granted, it's giving in to the ILEC monopoly, which I hate too, but it's one less entity that has to be coordinated to solve some problems. Your DCLEC is going to have to rely on the ILEC lines and services anyway, unless by some rare circumstance this [D]CLEC has their own lines run through your neighborhood.
[text was edited by author 2001-05-20 09:17:13] | |
bbesley
join:2000-11-20
Montgomery Village, MD | reply to Mike
Switched to cable 3 days before the line went dead. | |
skvngrx
join:2000-10-24
Arlington, VA | reply to rchandra
said by rchandra:
At 416K, I was 30% slower, which was most of the time I had TelHellocity. Connecting from work to VNC at home was better because it was 390K (average spd., OK) vs. 70K (average spd., barely tolerable),
a couple things here - When I was on Northpoint with Telocity I was getting a lot more consistent speed than it seems you were (distance to CO, line quality?). Set at 768k, I would always be above 620k or so - probably an average closer to 680k-700k. (Granted, the Northpoint guy on install actually seemed surprised and remarked at line quality when he did tests with the people at the CO). Now, I may have stated a feeling about Verizon in my message - but you seem to have a need to use strikethrough on every use of Telocity yourself... yikes.
said by rchandra:
except if you're talking about TelHellocity's screwed up routers
I'll agree with you on this note - it was quite a weird setup.
said by rchandra:
PPPoE is a pain in the behind, steals some of your bandwidth, but once you get it set up, you mostly forget about it, so it's pretty much a non-issue.
Even the re-authentication stuff? Does the authentication drop every so often, and require a "re-sync"?
said by rchandra:
Lack of static addressing just isn't that much of a problem, really...not with services that are around like DynDNS.org, Hammernode, ZoneEdit, and so on.
Uh, no. not when you have your own domain. yeah, great, I can have skvngrx.dyndns.org. Not quite the same as having john.smith.com, www.smith.com, ftp.smith.com, john@smith.com, and being able to handle all of the DNS and mail yourself.
said by rchandra:
line was up and down like a yoyo, even at the slowest configurable speed.
OK, so I can't really compare our services - my connectivity was much more solid, and at higher speeds.
said by rchandra:
As a result, I don't know what Verizon tech. support is really like, because the only reason I had to call them
but when you do call them (Verizon) - it is a nightmare getting through to anyone or dealing with the usually low level of knowledge and courtesy of the people you do get.
said by rchandra:
they charged me for a missed prem. visit when I asked for self-installation
Well, now I would be most concerned about something like that! You set them up with direct withdrawal access and then are powerless to stop them from putting improper charges through? A bit too scary there.
said by rchandra:
their insistence on using Netscape to ruin (yes, in some aspects, trash) the setup of your computer
hmm. a clean uninstall of Netscape shouldn't be too messy. I guess that was one thing about the Telocity hardware - the "activation" got handled by a piece of ROM Code, so I could have done it from my BeOS or SGI boxes if I had wanted to.
said by rchandra:
Another negative is the wording of their ToS ... HELLLOOOOOO!!!!!? Ever hear of GPG/PGP and digital signatures?
AMEN to that.
said by rchandra:
No, make that "want" instead of "need" and I'll believe you.
Wrong. You don't know what I need or not - when I said "personal site", I meant that I wasn't hosting sites for OTHER people out of my own house. I didn't mean that the site was only for personal uses.
said by rchandra:
About the only thing you CAN'T do with a dynamic address is something that depends SPECIFICALLY on an IP address instead of a name, such as being a DNS zone master
Um... yeah, well, that would be one. An important one...
said by rchandra:
so you're almost always going to hear more negatives than positives.
If I were just taking a poll of messages at DSLR, yeah, that'd probably be true. But when I'm talking about personal conversations with friends, most of whom either work in internet service companies or regulatory telecommunications law firms, I tend to think they have a valid point of view.
said by rchandra:
Then you have issues anyway.
Why? Why couldn't wireless (including the ultra-high frequency point to point stuff) or satellite be a way to sever ties to the RBOC and cable monopolies?
said by rchandra:
unless by some rare circumstance this [D]CLEC has their own lines run
And here in Northern Virginia, they are doing some of that. 50 years ago, owning your own phone was an odd concept. Why shouldn't I have the option to rip out the old Bell Atlantic (or maybe it was even Chesapeake and Pacific Telephone back then) copper and have fiber coming to my house? Maybe the power company will be another alternative.
-Kevan | |
rchandraStargate Universe fanPremium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105 | said by skvngrx:
(distance to CO, line quality?).
It must be the latter; according to Copper Mountain, I should be good for megabit and a half speeds at my distance.
said by skvngrx:
but you seem to have a need to use strikethrough on every use of Telocity yourself... yikes.
They're liars, at least IMHO.
said by skvngrx:
said by rchandra:
PPPoE is a pain in the behind, steals some of your bandwidth, but once you get it set up, you mostly forget about it, so it's pretty much a non-issue.
Even the re-authentication stuff? Does the authentication drop every so often, and require a "re-sync"?
Yes, it does. Pretty much, so what? All the major cable/DSL routers that support PPPoE support keeping the connection (reestablishment after LCP TERM, and/or PPPoE PADT, and/or realizing the link has died). And pppd(8) has the "persist" option. And RoaringPenguinPPPoE scripts are designed to keep the connection up if desired. So unless your connection yoyos every 5 minutes (which mine is usually stable for days, only to be interrupted for 5-10 minutes or so), it practically isn't a problem, at least not for me. If it were offline for 6-8 hours like my T./N.P. line was, or every 20 minutes like Adelphia in this area, yeah, that'd be a BIG problem.
said by skvngrx:
said by rchandra:
Lack of static addressing just isn't that much of a problem, really...not with services that are around like DynDNS.org, Hammernode, ZoneEdit, and so on.
Uh, no. not when you have your own domain. yeah, great, I can have skvngrx.dyndns.org. Not quite the same as having john.smith.com, www.smith.com, ftp.smith.com, john@smith.com, and being able to handle all of the DNS and mail yourself.
I do so just fine. C'mon...tell me you've never heard of a CNAME RR? Actually, firms with static addressing use them all the time. Take DSLR for example.
www.dslreports.com 258513 IN CNAME dslreports.com
Thus:
www.philippsfamily.org. IN CNAME hal9000.dnsalias.net.
philippsfamily.org. IN MX 10 hal9000.dnsalias.net.
(Actually, I don't do www at home, but the example is equally applicable.)
said by skvngrx:
but when you do call them (Verizon) - it is a nightmare getting through to anyone or dealing with the usually low level of knowledge and courtesy of the people you do get.
The only complaint I have so far is the occasional language barrier, which you're going to get with any call center, regardless. Unfortunately, companies are scared stiff of discrimination lawsuits if they were to refuse to hire people who don't speak well (because the vast majority of those who don't also happen to fall into some other category/group).
said by skvngrx:
said by rchandra:
they charged me for a missed prem. visit when I asked for self-installation
Well, now I would be most concerned about something like that! You set them up with direct withdrawal access and then are powerless to stop them from putting improper charges through? A bit too scary there.
It's the first problem for me in over 5 years...fairly reliable if you ask me. What I've saved in postage and check charges alone pretty much makes up for this one goofup.
said by skvngrx:
hmm. a clean uninstall of Netscape shouldn't be too messy.
The reality of it is different. I don't know why, don't care why. All I know is they "fixed" that 'puter but "good."
It would be SO much simpler just to register via SSL or a 1-8{00|88|77|66} dialup.
said by skvngrx:
Why couldn't wireless (including the ultra-high frequency point to point stuff) or satellite be a way to sever ties to the RBOC and cable monopolies?
Yes, you could. The point was that those choices are some fairly severe choices these days (doing w/o telephone?).
said by skvngrx:
Why shouldn't I have the option to rip out the old Bell Atlantic (or maybe it was even Chesapeake and Pacific Telephone back then) copper and have fiber coming to my house?
That's good in theory, but on balance horrendously expensive in practice at this time...not that it won't eventually happen; it's just hugely expensive now.
said by skvngrx:
Maybe the power company will be another alternative.
One alternative...don't know how well they can make that work. | |
skvngrx
join:2000-10-24
Arlington, VA | said by rchandra:
I do so just fine. C'mon...tell me you've never heard of a CNAME RR?
OK, you got me on CNAME. I guess I should be fine with it, though I just feel fishy chaining the domain name through yet another possible source of downtime. (Although, it should be much quicker, etc. to switch in the case of one of those companies going out of business.)
said by rchandra:
It's the first problem for me in over 5 years...fairly reliable if you ask me. What I've saved in postage and check charges alone pretty much makes up for this one goofup.
I think the problem with Verizon is they still have lots of the regionality in their systems. I've dealt with Bell Atlantic in Philadelphia, New York Telephone->NYNEX in Syracuse, Bell Atlantic->Verizon in Boston, and now Verizon in Northern Virginia. A lot of variation in the QOS.
said by rchandra:
Yes, you could. The point was that those choices are some fairly severe choices these days (doing w/o telephone?).
Oh, I'm certainly not installing fixed point wireless on my house tomorrow or something. But it could be a long term goal. I use my PCS phone probably 9/10 of the time anyway (certainly for long distance - we have almost no LD charges anymore that aren't included in a cellular plan)
--
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(I should hit 2000 SETI units this week!)
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