 maartenaElmoPremium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:1
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·DIRECTV
| There has to be a contact somewhere.... When you receive spam, e.g. for Viagra type pills or such, there is ALWAYS some way to contact the spammer in case you would want to buy the product. A 1-800 number, a website which is registered somewhere, etc.
Even if the actual spammer cannot be caught because they scrambled the headers, faked the IP adresses etc, there has to be some point in time where MONEY transfers from the buyer to the seller. It is at that point where companies that HIRE spammers are most vulnarable, and it is THERE that you catch them.
If you can't get the actual spammer, get the people who HIRED the spammer to spam for them! Even if a bureau has to make one transaction in buying the product, and then cancelling the transaction. Most spammers are actually U.S. businesses selling stuff to U.S. customers.
Sue them!  |
|
| said by maartena:
When you receive spam, e.g. for Viagra type pills or such, there is ALWAYS some way to contact the spammer in case you would want to buy the product. A 1-800 number, a website which is registered somewhere, etc.
Even if the actual spammer cannot be caught because they scrambled the headers, faked the IP adresses etc, there has to be some point in time where MONEY transfers from the buyer to the seller. It is at that point where companies that HIRE spammers are most vulnarable, and it is THERE that you catch them.
If you can't get the actual spammer, get the people who HIRED the spammer to spam for them! Even if a bureau has to make one transaction in buying the product, and then cancelling the transaction. Most spammers are actually U.S. businesses selling stuff to U.S. customers.
Sue them!
I'll tell you what was told to me when I suggested the same thing.
"What about fake emails to screw over your competitors?"
I still think the idea is a great one. |
|
| You also have the problem of spammers harvesting leads for "higher-ups" but lying about how they get their contacts.
Just a hypothetical example:
"Mortgage Business" is looking for clients. They hire 4 telemarketing firms to get leads. 3 of the firms are legal (they use the DNC list, etc...) but telemarketer 4 is a front. Telemarketer 4 is a sham business set up by a spammer to look completely legitimate. "Mortgage Business" has no idea they just hired a spammer.
Point being, due diligence in hiring "lead getters" may not be enough to uncover (in this example) a "Mortgage rates have just gone down" spammer. Suing every business linked to spammers could destroy legitimate businesses.
I'm sure an example can be made for most every type of spam out there (not just mortgage spam like I've illustrated).
It comes down to this:
New antispam laws need to acknowledge that innocent parties WILL be implicated as spammers/spam profiters and the law must make significant allowances to avoid wrongful prosecution. There is just too much collateral damage that can occur if this law is shortsighted in its approach and enforcement.
[text was edited by author 2003-10-16 14:50:08] |
|
| said by snkeyes3:
Just a hypothetical example:
"Mortgage Business" is looking for clients. They hire 4 telemarketing firms to get leads. 3 of the firms are legal (they use the DNC list, etc...) but telemarketer 4 is a front. Telemarketer 4 is a sham business set up by a spammer to look completely legitimate. "Mortgage Business" has no idea they just hired a spammer.
Point being, due diligence in hiring "lead getters" may not be enough to uncover (in this example) a "Mortgage rates have just gone down" spammer. Suing every business linked to spammers could destroy legitimate businesses.
Think about it this way. If someone on the street gets caught with drugs, the police ask who the dealer was. Give up the dealer and they can walk. Don't give up the dealer and you go to jail.
Another example. I knew of a case where a company sold a certain chemical to a guy in Europe who resold it to Iraq (back in the late 80's.) The chemical (usually used to thin out inks) when mixed with hydrochloric acid became crude mustard gas. The company thought it was being sold for resale in Europe (although one person did know the procedure was illegal.) The FBI and Interpol got the shipment before it got to Iraq.
Well, the person who falsified the records did get caught and got probation. The company paid a small fine (because it went through too many levels before it was stopped.) While the big fish was the guy in Europe (who was caught) the little fish did give him up and did not suffer as bad.
Fact is, you choose your employees carefully and you choose your methods carefully. |
|
maartenaElmoPremium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:1 Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·DIRECTV
| reply to snkeyes3
said by snkeyes3:
You also have the problem of spammers harvesting leads for "higher-ups" but lying about how they get their contacts.
Just a hypothetical example:
"Mortgage Business" is looking for clients. They hire 4 telemarketing firms to get leads. 3 of the firms are legal (they use the DNC list, etc...) but telemarketer 4 is a front. Telemarketer 4 is a sham business set up by a spammer to look completely legitimate. "Mortgage Business" has no idea they just hired a spammer.
Point being, due diligence in hiring "lead getters" may not be enough to uncover (in this example) a "Mortgage rates have just gone down" spammer. Suing every business linked to spammers could destroy legitimate businesses.
I'm sure an example can be made for most every type of spam out there (not just mortgage spam like I've illustrated).
It comes down to this:
New antispam laws need to acknowledge that innocent parties WILL be implicated as spammers/spam profiters and the law must make significant allowances to avoid wrongful prosecution. There is just too much collateral damage that can occur if this law is shortsighted in its approach and enforcement.
[text was edited by author 2003-10-16 14:50:08]
But there is a record of financial transaction between "Mortgage Business" and "Telemarketeer 4". Hey, they would not be a very good Mortgage Business if they did not do some proper accounting hahaha
Point is, Telemarketeer 4 can be found.
Hypthetical Situation:
MB hires 4 companies to telemarket a new product.
TM #4 spams the hell out of everyone to promote the product.
MB is contacted by Anti-Spam legislators: What the hell do you think you are doing?
MB gives up all the names of people they hired to promote new product.
TM #4 is found. TM #4 is charged. TM #4 will pay the price.
(And MB will probably never do business with them again)
If MB decides not to give up any names (in the case they
KNEW they were spamming and are trying to hide all the
records of it): MB will pay the price instead.
And that is how it should be done.
--
»www.deanforamerica.com - You have the power to make a change! Support Howard Dean 2004 |
|
|
|
| pretty much. lol. |
|
