medici
join:2001-02-22
Shohola, PA | reply to JakCrow
Re: If it's my hardware........ IANAL, and I don't think you are, either. A contract is a legally binding document. Once you've agreed to the terms of service and accepted the contract, you are liable for any breaches of those terms. Straightforward contract law. If the cable company wants to make an example of you, they can sue for theft of service, disruption of business, their costs to investigate and mitigate your unauthorized use, legal fees and punitive damages.
Also, AFAIK, there is no requirement of specific legislative protection in order to prosecute theft of service.
What I find is interesting is that ISP's seem to have plenty of money to spend on capping customer's bandwidth, detecting modem hackers, tracking bandwidth utilization and penalizing so-called bandwidth hogs. But when it comes to stuff like firewall protection, junk email filtering, virus protection, traffic shaping, and just good old customer education and support, that's too expensive (even though there are plenty of free or low-cost tools to address most of these categories). |
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medici
join:2001-02-22
Shohola, PA | reply to DadeMurphy
It is in PA. And it might be subject to interpretation elsewhere if you use VoIP. |
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 RexterYeeHaw
join:2002-11-17
cloud 9 | reply to Healbot
Just about any router has the ability to restrict bandwidth based on MAC or IP address. Yes it does consume resources on the router, but if you are going to be an ISP, you've gotta do what you gotta do. |
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 N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | reply to DadeMurphy
By PA law it is. The statute specifically states "Internet access" in the definition of telecommunications, as noted in the text of my previous post.
If the statute specifically states "internet access" , how then, is Comcast High speed INTERNET not telecommunications?
Just askin'' |
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 Wall9Tell Me, Did You See It Too?Premium
join:2002-06-25
Dupo, IL | reply to Rexter
Locks aren't put in place to keep out thieves. They're put in place to keep honest people honest.
Putting blame on anyone other than the person doing the stealing makes absolutely no sense to me. To be honest, I think it's pretty f'n sad. |
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RexterYeeHaw
join:2002-11-17
cloud 9
1 edit | Here in Colorado, like today fore example, it's cold and snowy. If I leave my car running unattended to warm it up, and it gets stolen, sure if the guy who did it gets caught, he may go to jail. But either way I will still get a ticket. |
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| reply to medici
Where is the the line though between civil and criminal? If I go and take the filters off the line that at eye level on the side of my house and allow HBO, Cinemax, et al in to my house they're sure going to try have me prosecuted for criminal theft of services. And if there's a lawyer in the bunch out there, where does the DMCA fall into all of this? I thought it might have something to say about it. Also, does the law vary from state to state or is it Federal because of the ICC?
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When I die, I want to die like my grandmother, who died peacefully in her sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in her car.-Author Unknown |
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 JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA | reply to medici
said by medici:
IANAL, and I don't think you are, either. A contract is a legally binding document. Once you've agreed to the terms of service and accepted the contract, you are liable for any breaches of those terms. Straightforward contract law.
Signing up with an ISP is not a contract agreement in the way two corporations sign a contract to do business with each other. I have yet to see the TOS of a cable ISP state that they will sue you or you could be arrested if you hack your modem. No, the worse they can do is cancel your service and maybe charge you some kind of cancellation fee, -if- it's in their TOS.
said by medici:
If the cable company wants to make an example of you, they can sue for theft of service, disruption of business, their costs to investigate and mitigate your unauthorized use, legal fees and punitive damages.
In a case like that, the TOS would most likely work against the ISP. The "theft of service" charge would be hard for the ISP to make stick, since the courts have previously said that it's difficult to quantify just how much "service" was stolen.
said by medici:
Also, AFAIK, there is no requirement of specific legislative protection in order to prosecute theft of service.
I do believe there is, especially with cable. Modem hacking is a simple TOS violation, nothing more.
said by medici:
What I find is interesting is that ISP's seem to have plenty of money to spend on capping customer's bandwidth, detecting modem hackers, tracking bandwidth utilization and penalizing so-called bandwidth hogs. But when it comes to stuff like firewall protection, junk email filtering, virus protection, traffic shaping, and just good old customer education and support, that's too expensive (even though there are plenty of free or low-cost tools to address most of these categories).
They certainly aren't spending that money on upgrading their networks if they feel the need to crack down on "bandwidth hogs". |
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RexterYeeHaw
join:2002-11-17
cloud 9 | reply to medici
said by medici:
But when it comes to stuff like firewall protection, junk email filtering, virus protection, traffic shaping, and just good old customer education and support, that's too expensive (even though there are plenty of free or low-cost tools to address most of these categories).
I really don't want my ISP to do this stuff. This is something that I want full control of. You have to keep in mind that security comes at the expense of functionality. It would be nice to have it maybe as an option, but based on past events, they are more likely to just force it on everyone. |
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Wall9Tell Me, Did You See It Too?Premium
join:2002-06-25
Dupo, IL | reply to Rexter
said by Rexter:
Here in Colorado, like today fore example, it's cold and snowy. If I leave my car running unattended to warm it up, and it gets stolen, sure if the guy who did it gets caught, he may go to jail. But either way I will still get a ticket.
Leaving a car running has nothing to do with going out of your way to modify a piece of hardware for the sole purpose of stealing what is not yours. |
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RexterYeeHaw
join:2002-11-17
cloud 9 | Whoosh!!
Hum........ I think you missed it. |
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| reply to N3OGH
Because the FCC recently declared that cable modem service is *NOT* a telecommunications service, so telecom laws do not apply. DSL was declared a telecommunications service even though it does the same thing, and is subject to regulation, and telecom law. |
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Wall9Tell Me, Did You See It Too?Premium
join:2002-06-25
Dupo, IL | reply to Rexter
I understand your analogy. I just don't think it applies. |
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| reply to nasadude
I'm not sure that's a valid analogy. People own DirectTV set tops, yet DirecTV controls content to that box. There are plenty of content providers who "control" the content via some sort of "control" on consumer owned equipment.
There is consumer choice: Connect to the providers content and allow them some measure of control over the equipment you own OR choose not to conncet to the providers content. Thus, the reason for the EULA/TOS agreement.... |
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| reply to FreeBSDNut
At the fed level you might be ok... but not the state. |
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