 richk_1957If ..Then..ElsePremium
join:2001-04-11
Minas Tirith | Come Contest Time, BPL will be wiped out! Fact: Hams are legally allowed to run 1KW (1,00 watts) max and while not many run that amount, during many contests DX (Distance), Field Day, & others, many hams run a respectable amount. This could provide eonough interference to make BPL useless. And what about conventions? The Dayton Hamvention regularly draws thousands, many who run mobile radios than run using ham bands from HF to microwave & use anything from milliwatts on up. All of which will wipe out any BPL. And our equipment runs clean, doesn't interfere with other services!
The person who suggested suggested shielding the power lines - be realistic! You're going to have all that high voltage cable replaced? Think of the cost! And that is not considering the cost of high voltage coax.
Any you people who live in rural areas that think this is your ticket to broadband? Forget it! If they do roll it out, it will be in places where they can get the most users - in urban areas. The rural people would come probably last.
So many people have posted the services that would be interfered with I'm not going to start, except to say this: almost all radio services would be interfered with - many of them that provide emergency services.
WA2YEU |
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| said by richk_1957:
Fact: Hams are legally allowed to run 1KW (1,00 watts) max and while not many run that amount, during many contests DX (Distance), Field Day, & others, many hams run a respectable amount.
Actually, the legal limit on most HF bands is 1500W output, to which you have to add any antenna gain.
I wonder if it's a coincidence that QST this month features a review of the Ten-Tec Titan III HF amplifier?
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richk_1957If ..Then..ElsePremium
join:2001-04-11
Minas Tirith | I believe the FCC says 1,000 watts - but I have read of people running amplifiers on SSB (Single Side Band) of 1,300 watts PEP (peak envelope power) so I don't know how the FCC is measuring this. I think it's measured at the output of the final amplifier, and is Average Power, not taking into consideration the antenna, which would make it the Effective Radiated Power.
Not many people come close to the maximum, though, but even 100 watts [that's what I used to run] would be enough to create havoc with BPL:D;) |
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| said by richk_1957:
I believe the FCC says 1,000 watts - but I have read of people running amplifiers on SSB (Single Side Band) of 1,300 watts PEP (peak envelope power) so I don't know how the FCC is measuring this. I think it's measured at the output of the final amplifier, and is Average Power, not taking into consideration the antenna, which would make it the Effective Radiated Power.
Not many people come close to the maximum, though, but even 100 watts [that's what I used to run] would be enough to create havoc with BPL:D;)
It's PEP out of the transmitter. I'm not an attorney, but a play one on TV  , so here's Title 47 Part 97 Section 313:
(b) No station may transmit with a transmitter power exceeding 1.5 kW PEP.
For those looking for bathroom reading at home, all laws pertaining the the FCC (Title 47) are here »www.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/cfras···e=200247 .
But, yes, 100 watts can reek havoc. I read somewhere about 4 watts making HomePlug lose its cookies. |
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| Back in the day (TM), the limit was 1000W DC input to the final amplifier stage. Easy to measure for carrier modes (CW, RTTY, AMTOR, FM); less easy to measure for SSB.
About 15-20 (?) years ago, the FCC switched to 1500W PEP output. That's equivalent to 750~1000W average output on SSB, but since for modes like CW and AMTOR, PEP = Keydown, it amounted to about a doubling of the allowable power output.
I'm wondering what sort of "adaptive filtering" the power companies and their partners will be able to come up with that can handle those sorts of power levels.
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richk_1957If ..Then..ElsePremium
join:2001-04-11
Minas Tirith | reply to rf_engineer
OK, so I'm wrong :) I thought 10 watts would knock out BPL, and most mobile rigs run 10-15 watts. But if it's 4 watts to knock it out ... I had a Yaseu HT that had 2 power settings 1.5 & 5 watts (the battery didn't last long at 5 watts:)), and most hand held's do the same. But if it only takes 4 watts...bye bye BPL |
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 Radio ActiveMy pappy's a pistolPremium
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA | reply to snorpus
Re: Come Contest Time, BPL will be wiped out! said by snorpus:
I'm wondering what sort of "adaptive filtering" the power companies and their partners will be able to come up with that can handle those sorts of power levels.
Very good point...
I'm betting they can't. Given the nature of IP traffic and "Adaptive Filtering," continuous and non-coordinated (read:not CTS/RTS) RF energy will still ingress the BPL system, like front end overload... And it's not even a "transmitted" power level per se that is important... Proximity of the RF signal to the associated BPL repeater---or other network device, or even the power line itself; some hams and CBers use horizontal polarization for their antennas---will be the biggest factor in the amount of interference BPL will experience.
Sure, it may work for keeping BPL Part 15 compliant (for the sake of discussion), but it will do nothing to protect BPL from interference and dropouts.
I can't think of many hams who will adapt their own operations to accommodate this train wreck.
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I once accidentally spilled spot remover on my dog and he disappeared. You know what I hate? Indian Givers... No, I take that back. »www.folsomtech.com |
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Radio ActiveMy pappy's a pistolPremium
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA | reply to richk_1957
Re: OK, so I'm wrong :) said by richk_1957:
I thought 10 watts would knock out BPL, and most mobile rigs run 10-15 watts. But if it's 4 watts to knock it out ... I had a Yaseu HT that had 2 power settings 1.5 & 5 watts (the battery didn't last long at 5 watts:)), and most hand held's do the same. But if it only takes 4 watts...bye bye BPL
My gut (which is sometimes wrong) tells me that any RF over 80 MHz would be effectively filtered out by BPL technology, even though the non-linear nature of BPL would emit unpredictible interference well past 80 MHz... But any HF transmitter in the spectrum of BPL would slice through the filtering pretty efficiently.
Proximity is the key to disrupting BPL (intentionally or accidentally)...
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I once accidentally spilled spot remover on my dog and he disappeared. You know what I hate? Indian Givers... No, I take that back. »www.folsomtech.com |
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