WebsiteCity
join:2004-06-17
Philadelphia, PA
| Cant Upgrade 3220H from v5.4 to 6.3 using telnet??
I've been trying to upgrade the firmware in
my 3220H as well.
Netopia's instructions indicate using 163.176.4.31
as the tftp server ip during the telnet session.
But, the Telnet session just hangs after I specify
the server address and file name for the
updater file.
Note:
1). B/c I have v5.4, I don't have an "upgrade" option
in the very old GUI when I access the modem using
a browswer and its default gateway ip.
2) I contacted Netopia on this some many weeks ago,
and they said the same thing, that the options is
not in its GUI via browser access.
3) Netopia said something about calling the 800
number (they supplied in their return e-mail)
and perhaps they can upgrade/install directly.
Well, needless to say, I haven't tried calling them
just haven't found the time b/c telephones are not
my deal.
So, has anybody ever been successful with the
telnet/server address for upgrading firmware
of their routers? specifically 3220H?
I say this b/c I ftp'd into the server address
above, and it has three directories
private
pub
webdl
My point is, if the Telnet upgrade session I am
trying to do simply looks at the root directory
of the server addrss I provide, then it is nnot
going to find the file name I specify for it to
find - the updater fine name.
Obviously the server is accessible (confirmed using
ftp) so why is my update attempt timeing out?
My guess is its because it can find the file
(specific) file "u8a110R0.COS". I've wandered
around the ftp file directories and didn't find
that file in the obviously places like router/firmware/
etc....
Any suggestions? |
|
dgilbert
Good Bye My Friend
Premium,MVM
join:2002-06-15
none
clubs:
| Re: Cant Upgrade 3220H from v5.4 to 6.3 using teln
see »www.netopia.com/en-us/equipment/···man.html download the files to your machine locally, and install them from there. you will need to run a TFTP server on your machine to do this. goto »support.solarwinds.net/updates/N···Free.cfm and get their TFTP server it is free and works great for the caymans. just remember to use your local ip when it asks for the tftp server!
--
If you can read this, thank a teacher..........and since it's in English, thank a soldier. |
|
WebsiteCity
join:2004-06-17
Philadelphia, PA
| reply to WebsiteCity
Upgrade v5.4 - v63 Resolved See Notes
Thanks.
After posting I wandered around and collected bits and pieces of info from this forum, and guess what, davidg
was the MVP of this game.
Problem Overview:
1. Cayman 3220H Running Old (very) GatorSurf v5.4
Note:
* v5.4 does not have a "Install Sofware" option in its
very basic TEXT browser interface.
2. Well, when I was thinking to try to upgrade the firmware, I first had to find the instructions and
the drivers.
Note:
* These drivers were found at (free) the following
Netopia website URL Download area.
3. However, after obtaining these files, the next problem was installing them into the 3220H, but remember v5.4 does not have the obvious "upgrade firmware" button or option. This was very strange, and so I e-mail netopia and they said that v5.4 was a problem b/c it didn't have the "Install Software" option in the router's built in menues.
Note:
* There is one tutorial by Netopia which showes a screen shot of the old v5.5+ menu, and of course, it had the "Install Software" link/button on it. This confused the hell out of me, needless to say, the endless hunting around every link in 3220H's menus, I even tried straight typing phantom webpage names in the browser like »192.168.1.254/install ip 192.168.1.254
BootPROM> ipnetmask 255.255.255.0
BootPROM> ipserver 192.168.1.1
BootPROM> file c8w630r7.cos
BootPROM> install
this should install the firmware. the file name IS CASE SENSITIVE,
so make sure you have it right and also that it is in the proper
directory for your TFTP server. once the file is installed, reboot
the cayman and see if it will come alive.
--
Technical Support....Doesn't
to forum · » · · hey mods · · 2003-09-12 11:21:12
*******************
8. After reviewing these replies, and after installing SolarWind's TFTP program, things started getting clearer by the minute.
9. First, I realized that the SolarWind's TFTP program caused the telnet install procedure to look specifically at a location on your harddrive for the two key files needed for the Two phases of the Telnet install 1) being the installer portion; and 2) the OS portion:
1. Installer: File Name: u8a110R0.COS.
2. OS File Name: c8w630r7.COS.
10. So, the next problem was understanding the IP addresses, which when understood, made everything fall into place.
notes:
* One IP is the IP that the 3220H has been configured
with. Something like 192.168.1.254, or another
IP to the 3220H which you have changed it to.
* IP 2 is the IP of the computer the installer and
the OS is on. In this case I made it a bit more
intersting by having the Installer/OS files on
my laptop (another computer) on another IP within
my LAN network. Yes, I have two routers, a wireless
D-Link DI714 and the older Cayman 3220H.
* The Cayman I use in my "computer station" to network
a couple of computers I have there.
* I have the D-Link closer to the CableModem that
handles the wireless and a hardline to another
computer in another part of the building.
* A long wire carries the signal with its DHCP IP
assigned address assigned by the DI to the other
computers at my station.
* Note: the Cayman 3220H at this piont is configured
to turn off its DHCP so it only acts like a hub,
and all computers get their IP's from the DI714
located earlier in the broadband feed chain.
11. Getting back to IP's. As I mentioned, I used the laptop as the source IP/computer/hardrive for the installation files and not the computer I was using to
run the telnet on which in this case had a different IP such as 192.168.0.101, and my lap had 192.168.0.102, where the 3220H had an ip of 192.168.0.111 .
12. With this information in hand.
13. Start SolarWind's TFTP program.
NOtes:
* Configure the "root" directory for the TFTP to
where the Installer and OS files are.
* You'll have to pay attention to the little TFTP
GUI its very basic, but if you click on the drive
C:, or other drive, and navigate to where your files
are, then leave it there.
* NO other significant configurations were made.
14. Then, noting that where the TFTP program was running, that will be the IP you enter into the Telnet's installation procedures for both the installer and
OS phases of the install.
15. So, I entered in this case the 192.168.0.101 (where the TFTP program was running and where the files were) as the IP for the server information asked during the installation procedures indicated in Netopia's instructions.
Note:
* When the telnet install asked me for the file names for either the Installer or the OS file, I only enterd IN.COS and OS.COS for the names because I had renamed these files in the TFTP directory area to make it easier to enter the information in the Telnet install procedure. A little bit of making things easier pays off down the road.
16. The TFTP program sucks up the files one at a time,
showing you the progress in its little GUI.
Note:
* a couple of times I "lost connection" during the
installation of the files into the 3220H.
* No problem, if you don't get a clean upload, just
rerun the Telnet installation procedure from step
one or 15 until you get clean installs of each of
the two files.
17. Walla!!! Your done.
18. Restart the 3220H.
Note:
* I Also uplugged and refreshed my IP's to both computers just to get a clean start.
19. Go to your browser, type in the IP to the 3220H, and
you'll see the new firmwar version 6.3's GUI on the 3220H ready for all your configuration commands (DCHP on/off, password changes, WAN) and of course, you have a trusty old "Install Software" option which was not on the old, and now missing v5.4 TEXT based interface on the 3220H.
20. One thing to notice though, the new v6.3 GUI on the 3220H has limited basic functionality why? Because if you want more, you'll have to upload those new fancy versions of the firmware which Netopia will gladdly sell you. Ha ha.a!! Why else would they allow you to upgrade from the crusty v5.4 to the sleek v6.3 for Free!!! Well, at least we have done away with Telnet .. for now.
See following thread for the screen shots of the
1. SolarWind's TFTP program.
2. Old 3220H v5.4 TEXT based configuration menu.
3. NEW 3220H v6.3 GUI fancy configuration menu.
Have fun.
MichaelUribe.com |
|
WebsiteCity
join:2004-06-17
Philadelphia, PA
2 edits | reply to WebsiteCity
v5.4 - v6.3 3220H Firmware Upgrade Screenshots
Page 1 of 7 | 
Page 2 of 7 | 
Page 3 of 7 | 
Page 4 of 7 | 
Page 5 of 7 | 
Page 6 of 7 | 
Page 7 of 7 |  NETOPIA_3220···_v63.zip 263,566 bytes
NETOPIA INSTRUCTIONS (Amended by MU)
(NETOPIA_3220H_UPGRADE_v54_to_v63.PDF) | | |
|
|
WebsiteCity
join:2004-06-17
Philadelphia, PA
| reply to WebsiteCity
All 3220H v5.4 to v6.3 Upgrade Instructions in PDF
CAYMAN_FIRMW···IONS.zip 557,043 bytes
Page 1 of 7 Plus Netopia Instructions
(CAYMAN_FIRMWARE_v54v63_PAGE0107_INSTRUCTIONS.PDF) |
big PDF file.
By MichaelUribe.com |
|
dgilbert
Good Bye My Friend
Premium,MVM
join:2002-06-15
none
clubs: | reply to WebsiteCity
Re: Cant Upgrade 3220H from v5.4 to 6.3 using teln
glad you got it going!
and that is some nice screenshots! you spent some time laying out that info.
--
If you can read this, thank a teacher..........and since it's in English, thank a soldier. |
|
WebsiteCity
join:2004-06-17
Philadelphia, PA
| reply to WebsiteCity
Upgrade 3220H from v5.4 to 6.3 add'l Info
Netopia's DL Area Notes | CAYMAN_3220H···P.zi.zip 37,251 bytes
Netopia's DL Area Notes (PDF)
(CAYMAN_3220H_ROUTER_FIRMWARE_DOWNLOAD_NOTES_02P.PDF) | | |
|
|
WebsiteCity
join:2004-06-17
Philadelphia, PA | reply to WebsiteCity
Cayman 3220H firmware upgrade v5.4 to 6.3 (telnet)
Cayman 3220H firmware upgrade v5.4 to 6.3 (telnet) |
|
bathswife
Original Member
join:2000-09-06
Birmingham, AL
clubs: 
| reply to dgilbert
Re: Cant Upgrade 3220H from v5.4 to 6.3 using teln
Note: This is to DavidG
Is there some way I could use this to upgrade my old cayman as well...the problem is that because of its age, the firware will not work with my isp (bellsouth extreme dsl) and I already have the correct update file and firmware files downloaded to my pc but can't figure a way I could get them onto my cayman since I can't connect to the internet with the old cayman (I have a newer cayman 3220-H with appropriate firmware).
I think you told me back around Christmas that you would help me through doing this or you had some ideas. I never got around to asking again but now I'm having some noise problems and would like to be able to eliminate as the possible cause my current cayman router. If I can get the old one updated, I can use it to test the line stats and have the old one as a backup for emergencies. I don't think the noise problem is from my router but I'd be able to put it to the test if I could get my old router updated.
Can I telnet directly into my pc without an internet connection on it? It doesn't seem possible somehow.
Thanks, Karen
--
jbooksNOSPAM@bellsouth.netremove the "nospam" from the email to email me.mhttp://www.johnsonsusedbooks.com |
|
dgilbert
Good Bye My Friend
Premium,MVM
join:2002-06-15
none
clubs:
| yes, you can telnet into the cayman even without an internet connection. i rememeber you having the problem, but you never posted back so i figured you had figured it out.
just follow the steps listed and you should be good to go. if you have any problems, post back and i will be glad to help. you will need to download solarwinds tftp server so get that before you disconnect your old router.
--
If you can read this, thank a teacher..........and since it's in English, thank a soldier. |
|
bathswife
Original Member
join:2000-09-06
Birmingham, AL
clubs:
| Okay, I spent about six hours trying to get it to work and couldn't but the problem may be that I can't telnet into the modem so I did a serial connection and a hyperterminal. I could get into the modem and all just fine but never could connect to the solarwinds tftp server. I may be missing something very obvious here so let me tell you how I had it set up so if you notice anything glaringly obvious that I've overlooked you can point it out to me and at this point I won't feel too stupid (grin).
After trying the telnet method and not being able to get into modem, I simply plugged in the terminal on the back of the cayman and plugged into the com1 terminal on my pc. I plugged in the power. I followed the cayman website directions and got to the cayman prompt. I saved the configuration just like it said to do.
Then I clicked on install and got the warning and proceded along anyway. I entered my ip server address which for this pc would be 192.168.1.2
I thought it was going to work because it said, "installing" and then it times out with an error and a warning that there is no DNS set or the dns was set to 0.0.0.0. (there were two warnings regarding dns thingies set to 0.0.0.0).
So I went back into the prom section and typed in help and looked at the list of commands and put in an ip and ipsec and couldn't see anything that looked like a setting for dns.
I am on bellsouth as I mentioned before and had been using dynamic handling but am now on a static ip but I've never changed any settings on my pc or on my current cayman router (the newer one). I didn't think I had to. I was tempted to try changing some settings on my pc but then I realized that it might have an adverse affect on my present working cayman and that I might then have to change settings on my current cayman. The last time I did that I accidentally wiped out my ability to log in at all and had to set the modem back to factory settings which was a traumatic experience so before I do anything like that I thought I would post here.
Also, nothing ever came up on the tftp server indicating anything was trying to reach it so I am wondering if my old cayman (the one I was hyperterminalling into with serial cable) would read my pc as some other ip like some old ip that it used to have in its settings. It is possible that at that time I had it set to 192.168.1.anythingelse. So I just don't know what else to try.
I don't have to have the dsl line from the phone socket plugged in to the old cayman when I try to hyperterminal do I? It doesn't seem like I would have to since I can't get online with it so I didn't try that.
As a last resort, I tried resetting to factory settings but that didn't seem to change a thing.
Sorry for the sloppy way I wrote this. I'm confused at this point.
--
jbooksNOSPAM@bellsouth.netremove the "nospam" from the email to email me.mhttp://www.johnsonsusedbooks.com |
|
LBB
Premium,MVM
join:2001-06-14
Bama
 ·AT&T Southeast
3 edits | reply to WebsiteCity
Re: Cant Upgrade 3220H from v5.4 to 6.3 using telnet??
Hi Karen,
No you don't need to have your DSL line plgged in.. I have been doing upgrades to old 3220-H's for many years and I've only had a few that wouldn't take..
First thing, is the updater file in the TFTP root directory? Once this takes you should be able to browse into the Cayman and use the Install link to finish up.
It might help to hard code your PC with the 192.168.1.2 address which will not hurt anything concerning your BellSouth static IP address..
Look thru this thread and you may pick up a few more tips to help.
»3220H image file 1 not valid
LB
EDIT: Make sure you don't have any firewalls running during this install just to be on the safe side.
Also, if you need help hard coding your LAN IP just let me know and I'll post some screen shots but I'll need to know what OS you have.. |
|
bathswife
Original Member
join:2000-09-06
Birmingham, AL
clubs:
| Re: Cant Upgrade 3220H from v5.4 to 6.3 using teln
said by LBB  :
First thing, is the updater file in the TFTP root directory? Once this takes you should be able to browse into the Cayman and use the Install link to finish up.
»3220H image file 1 not valid
EDIT: Make sure you don't have any firewalls running during this install just to be on the safe side.
Also, if you need help hard coding your LAN IP just let me know and I'll post some screen shots but I'll need to know what OS you have..
Yes updater is in tftp root directory. I have been up all night and will chck out the thread after I've had some sleep.
I would be happy if you could show me how to hard code the address into pc. I am using win2000 professional. Will come straight back here after sleeping. My forehead is about to land on the keyboard!
Thanks!
--
jbooksNOSPAM@bellsouth.netremove the "nospam" from the email to email me.mhttp://www.johnsonsusedbooks.com |
|
LBB
Premium,MVM
join:2001-06-14
Bama
·AT&T Southeast
| First right click on My Network Places on the desktop and choose Properties,(or if you don't have it go to Control panel and open Network and Dial-Up Connections.)
Right Click on Local Area Connection and choose Properties. |
|
LBB
Premium,MVM
join:2001-06-14
Bama
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to bathswife
Highlight Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) and choose properties just below and to the right. |
|
LBB
Premium,MVM
join:2001-06-14
Bama
·AT&T Southeast
2 edits | reply to bathswife
In the window that opens choose the radio button Use the Following IP Address
Put in the desired IP Address for the PC (192.168.1.2) and then hit Tab which will then automatically populate the Subnet Mask with the 255.255.255.0.
For Default Gateway use the Cayman default which is 192.168.1.254.
Now, go ahead and choose the radio button Use the following DNS Server Addresses and fill it in with the 192.168.1.254.
Once this is complete just select OK and after a short pause you should be good to go.
Just to make sure it works you either reboot or just simply try to ping the Cayman by going to the Command Prompt(Start > Run > type CMD and hit enter) and type in ping 192.168.1.254 and see if you get a reply.. If it times out just reboot.
Please make sure you don't have any type Software Firewall running during the upgrade.
If you have any questions please feel free to ask.
LB |
|
bathswife
Original Member
join:2000-09-06
Birmingham, AL
clubs:
1 edit | Okay, I changed the settings to the ones you specified and then pinged the address and it worked. I went back to the hyperterminal and tried again and still timed out.
I must have some setting off because the router doesn't seem to be able to reach the ip address to get the file.
Here is what happens when I start:
BootPROM>
Boot PROM Console v2.5
Cayman-DSL serial no. oldrouter (bootflags 0x0)
STAY IN EPROM?
flash image 1: GatorSurf 5.5.0R1
copying a81fc bytes of flash image
from 840100 to ram at 300000.
Inflater: found a.out: 1542048+62472+362546 (59% deflated)
Inflating 657215 bytes to 1604520 bytes at 2000
.................................................
Starting image: entry point is 2058, bootflags are 0
00:00:00:00 L4 0 BR: Cayman-DSL Model 3220-H, DMT-ADSL (Alcatel) plus 4-port
hub
00:00:00:00 L4 0 BR: GatorSurf version 5.5.0 (build R1)
00:00:00:00 L4 0 BR: Cayman-DSL***** (Cayman-DSL, rev 1)
00:00:00:00 L4 0 BR: last install status: no response from ipserver 192.168.1
.2
When I still timed out I went back to the bootprom to use the help file and typed in show (bootsettings):
Here is what my "show" settings reveal:
BootPROM> show
flash on (flash will be tried)
ip 192.168.1.254 (tftp will be tried)
ipserver 192.168.1.2 (tftp server address)
ipgateway 192.168.1.254 (ip gateway address, if needed)
ipnetmask 0 (no netmask specified; will use default)
file "update.COS" (filename for tftp or appletalk tftp download)
bootp on (will attempt configuration via bootp)
autoboot 10 (will autoboot on powerup, and will try 10 times)
autoprog never (will never program a downloaded image into flash)
Cayman-DSL serial no. ******, h/w rev. 1, eprom v2.5
Last install status: no response from ipserver 192.168.1.2
flash image 1: GatorSurf 5.5.0R1
flash image 2: GatorSurf 5.3.0B17
--
jbooksNOSPAM@bellsouth.net
remove the "nospam" from the email to email me.m
»www.johnsonsusedbooks.com |
|
bathswife
Original Member
join:2000-09-06
Birmingham, AL
clubs:
| Like a crazy person, I am still trying various different things and here is what the log shows:
Cayman-DSLoldrouter> show log all
Message Log:
00:00:00:00 L4 BR: Using saved configuration options
00:00:00:00 L4 GDB: PowerPC gdbnub debugger is not installed
00:00:00:00 L4 BR: Cayman-DSL Model 3220-H, DMT-ADSL (Alcatel) plus 4-port
hub
00:00:00:00 L4 BR: GatorSurf version 5.5.0 (build R1)
00:00:00:00 L4 BR: Cayman-DSLoldrouter (Cayman-DSL, rev 1)
00:00:00:00 L4 BR: last install status: no response from ipserver 192.168.1
.2
00:00:00:00 L4 BR: memory sizes - 1792K Flash, 4096K RAM
00:00:00:00 L4 BR: free memory: 2156558 bytes, starting at 0x1f17e2
00:00:00:00 L4 BR: restart not in response to admin command
00:00:00:00 L4 BR: bootFlags: 0x0, running in RAM
00:00:00:00 L4 BR: image 0 booted from flash
00:00:00:00 L4 BR: this image was started by the Boot PROM
00:00:00:00 L4 BR: Boot PROM supports multi-virtual flash
00:00:00:00 L4 BR: starting kernel
00:00:00:00 L4 ED: Initializing Ethernet Device 1, Type QUICC
00:00:00:00 L4 ED: Initializing Ethernet Device 2, Type RFC1483
00:00:00:00 L3 AAL5: initializing service
00:00:00:00 L4 ATM: Waiting for PHY layer to come up
00:00:00:00 L4 ATM: Setting up ILMI circuit, VPI = 0, VCI = 16
00:00:00:00 L4 ATM: Setting up vcc1, VPI = 0, VCI = 35
00:00:00:00 L3 POE: Disabling PPP over Ethernet service (not in use)
00:00:00:00 L3 SCON: initializing
00:00:00:00 L4 SCON: (con) configured console port
00:00:00:00 L3 SCON: (con) binding to driver SER
00:00:00:00 L3 BRDG : Bridge not enabled.
00:00:00:00 L4 IP: Routing between WAN ports is disabled
00:00:00:00 L4 IP: Adding interface ENET (lan) at addr 192.168.1.254 (defau
lt)
00:00:00:00 L4 IP: Adding interface ENET (vcc1) at addr 0.0.0.0 (default)
00:00:00:00 L4 IP: Address mapping enabled on interface ENET (vcc1)
00:00:00:00 L3 IP: Initialization complete
00:00:00:00 L3 IP: (lan) Ethernet Physical Link Active
00:00:00:00 L3 IP: (vcc1) Ethernet Physical Link Down
00:00:00:00 L3 IP: (lan) RIP IP Multicast Address 224.0.0.9 configured
00:00:00:00 L3 IP: (lan) IP Protocol Up
00:00:00:00 L3 IP: (vcc1) RIP IP Multicast Address 224.0.0.9 configured
00:00:00:00 L3 RIP: initializing
00:00:00:00 L3 DHCP : Initializing Service
00:00:00:00 L3 DHCP : Setup Server On UDP Port 67
00:00:00:00 L3 DHCP : Setup Client On UDP Port 68
00:00:00:00 L3 DNS: initializing service
00:00:00:00 L4 DNS: nameserver address is 0.0.0.0
00:00:00:00 L3 ADI: initializing service
00:00:00:00 L4 ADI: No Crypto ID found
00:00:00:00 L4 HTTP: initializing service
00:00:00:00 L3 SNMP: initializing service over UDP
00:00:00:00 L3 DIA: Initializing Service
00:00:00:00 L3 TS: Terminal Shell initializing
00:00:00:02 L3 DHCP : Startup NVRAM Lease table is ok
00:00:00:11 L4 TS: unauthenticated user login on serial port 1
00:00:00:23 L4 BR: Cayman-DSL Model 3220-H, DMT-ADSL (Alcatel) plus 4-port
hub
00:00:00:23 L4 KS : Configuration parameters saved.
--
jbooksNOSPAM@bellsouth.netremove the "nospam" from the email to email me.mhttp://www.johnsonsusedbooks.com |
|
LBB
Premium,MVM
join:2001-06-14
Bama
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to WebsiteCity
Re: Cant Upgrade 3220H from v5.4 to 6.3 using telnet??
Well, let's start out by checking the TFTP server settings just to make sure.
Start up Solar Winds and go to the Security Tab and set it to Send and Receive Files.
Now, go to the Advanced Security Tab and add the range of 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.254 (make sure to click add range when your done) Also, I went ahead and removed the 0.0.0.0 default range that it lists. BE SURE TO LEAVE THE TFTP SERVER RUNNING.
OK were done there lets fire up Hyperterminal and get into the Cayman.
Start out with
bootPROM> ipnetmask 255.255.255.0
bootPROM> ip 192.168.1.254
bootPROM> ipserver 192.168.1.1
bootPROM> file u8xxxxxx.COS (whichever UPDATER file you have)
bootPROM> install (it may take a up to a minute)
bootPROM> boot
Were trying to specify the Subnet mask this time to see if that's the reason why it can't find the file.
LB |
|
bathswife
Original Member
join:2000-09-06
Birmingham, AL
clubs:
| Re: Cant Upgrade 3220H from v5.4 to 6.3 using teln
Hi, before I have a chance to work on some of this I have to go to the bank, etc., but wanted to say something else first.
I have the solar winds program set up exactly the way you mentioned instead of the default all ip addresses because I kept going back to the TFTp server settings when I couldn't connect with the router. I added the same range you mentioned. I also made sure the security is set up to both send and receive files.
I wonder if there is some way I can test the TFTP server to make sure it's working correctly. I have even thought of just uninstalling it and re-installing it because everything I've done telnetting into the router with the hyperterminal has worked except reaching the ip address I have setup.
I tried the netmask command using the 255.255.255.0 last night at one point too, thinking the exact same thing you were and it still didn't work.
But I'm going to try re-installing the TFTP server later when I'm through working and running errands and stuff. I will keep posting here. And please keep suggesting things, I'll try them all! Thanks!
--
jbooksNOSPAM@bellsouth.netremove the "nospam" from the email to email me.mhttp://www.johnsonsusedbooks.com |
|
