FreedomFire
join:2004-07-23
Chesapeake, VA
1 edit | WiFi vs WiMax.....What's In The Future?
The Telecommunications landscape is ever evolving....due to both regulatory pressures, business competition, consumer interest, and technologogy advancement.
WiFi & WiMax are fast steaming to the forefront in the BroadBand world.
What are the strengths & weaknesses of each?
What "market" (consumer & geographic location) are each best suited for?
What challenges must each overcome to acquire more mainstream acceptance?
What...if anything...may emerge as their biggest competitor & why?
Ok folks......give us your 2-cents worth of opinion.
God Bless,
Michael Lemm
FreedomFire Communications
"Helping Your Business....Do Business"
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chiefbmr
join:2003-04-08
College Station, TX | Untill WiMax comes out and proves itself to be what they claim it to be, and that it can be used without breaking the bank, WiFi will still be around. |
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polk5
join:2001-12-29
New Orleans, LA | Amen to that! The proof is in the pudding. Im running out of room in my toybox of gear that wouldnt work as advertised. Still looking for that silver bullit. |
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pmurdock
Paul Murdock
join:2001-09-13
Riverton, UT
| reply to FreedomFire
I think each has their place. WiFi seems to work well for small hotspots with very short range while WiMax may excel at long distance fixed links to backhaul hotspots perhaps.
I myself am really looking forward to 802.16 and its variants. The interference mitigation techniques that will be built into the MAC layer are the most exciting. OFDM, ARQ, Reed Solomon FEC, high order modulations QAM16, QPSK, and polarization diversity. All these will add together to form a solid standard.
cheers,
Paul |
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cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA | reply to FreedomFire
These are complimentary technologies. WiFi was designed for indoor use and has been adapted to outdoor use, however it lacks many features needed for a quality service provider network. Enter WiMax which fills those gaps. |
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SB Tech
join:2002-10-20
Allentown, PA
| said by cmaenginsb  :
These are complimentary technologies. WiFi was designed for indoor use and has been adapted to outdoor use, however it lacks many features needed for a quality service provider network. Enter WiMax which fills those gaps.
These are not complimentary technologies. At the basic level they are identical and duplication. IEEE802.11 standard is continuing to make significant new advancements. It may be worth checking out development of the various work group committees and look at their roadmap. In many areas 802.11 is already more advanced. And some upcoming enhancements also exceed the promises of WiMax.
But WiMax has Intel's marketing machine behind it and generating lot of attention in the press. As polk5 said, proof is in the pudding.
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smartBridges Customer Support Team
Email: support@smartbridges.com |
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cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA
| reply to FreedomFire
I'm sorry to argue this but the WiMax standard is for metro area networking where WiFi is for Local Area Networking.
As there respective forums state:
Wimax is promoting interoperability standards for broadband access.
Whereas:
The Wi-Fi Alliance is a nonprofit international association formed in 1999 to certify interoperability of wireless Local Area Network products based on IEEE 802.11 specification.
So you see they compliment each other. You would use a Wimax link to provide bandwidth to a WiFi hotspot.
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CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber |
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SB Tech
join:2002-10-20
Allentown, PA
| reply to FreedomFire
I am not trying to argue either. I am just sharing the information to try to clear up some confusion that is going around in the industry.
IEEE 802.11 clearly started out for the WLAN as you mention. But since then it has adopted many enhancements that take it beyond the WLAN space. I clipped a couple of lines below from their QoS task group (about to be ratified) -
Enabling New Class of Applications - 802.11e (QoS)
- Broadband ISPs can offer new services such as telephone and audio through a single wireless interface.
- Wireless ISPs can provide classes of service and guranteed service levels.
Similarly looking at the work being done by other 802.11 task groups shows that WiMax (IEEE 802.16a) is too little and too late. So the question is "why bother with WiMax?". You get more capabilities with 802.11x and get it sooner, with backward compatibilty. (Oh you don't get as much marketing buzz 
There is yet another lesser known but similar standard being developed IEEE 802.20 for Mobile Broadband Access. In the long term this is good for the industry as the better technologies will win. In the short term people will have to navigate through the smoke screens as there are large vested interests behind each of them.
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smartBridges Customer Support Team
Email: support@smartbridges.com |
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cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA
| reply to FreedomFire
Actually there are WiMax and WiMax like systems being deployed today where enhanced 802.11 is still being ratified. So WiMax is there now.
Unfortunately the very fact that it is "backward" compatible takes it out of the running of any large scale WISP deployment. Why? Because the 802.11 MAC doesn't work well outdoors. I know this having deployed 802.11 gear for over 3 1/2 years in WISP environments varying from the small to the fairly large.
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CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber |
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btpull
Premium
join:2004-04-27
| reply to SB Tech
Operating spectrum:
WiFi - 2.4GHZ or 5.8GHZ
WiMax - 2GHZ - 66GHZ
Maximun Throughput
WiFi - 2MPBS - 54MPBS
WiMax - 70 MPBS
Distance
WiFi - 200 yards
WiMax - Several miles
Transport protocol
WiFi - Ethernet
WiMax - TCP, IP, ATM
Equipment costs -
WiFi - few hundred dollars
WiMax - several thousand dollars
WiFi is designed for hotspot internet access. WiMax is designed for fixed broad wireless access over a relatively longer distances.
WiMax competes with DSL and Cable for fixed broadband internet access. WiFi does not have a similar direct competitor. |
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canadiancree
Crusin in the boonies
join:2004-02-10
Charlottetown, PE | excellent comparision, thanks |
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GuyS25
join:2003-12-26
England
| reply to FreedomFire
Just my 2c.
RS232 and 300 baud acoustic modems were for teletype machines - but it didn't stop there. WiFi range is 200yds? Try 20 miles under FCC rules. Where are the WiMax products? Ask the same question a year from now and we might have an answer, and two or three years and we may see the standard put to good commercial use.
As sB points out, I think WiMax is more hype than reality at the moment. We will have to wait and see.
Guy |
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Nowireneeded
join:2004-02-11
Montoursville, PA
| reply to SB Tech
SB Tech, Pretty funny post. I think you need some more time studying what Wimax brings to the party. You're grinding an ax- 802.11b gear is not efficient (bits per Htz), not adept at NLOS offerings, does not have a mac very capable of QOS or a standard polling protocol and many other things that will enable scaling of major outdoor wireless networks that cannot be built with bubble gum and shoestring. Wimax was built from the ground up as an outdoor protocol that will scale well beyond 802.11 capabilities. If Smart Bridges thinks they can bypass Wimax so be it and I'd put money on the fact that they'll be humbled with that decision. |
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cjblack
join:2004-07-15
Harrold, TX
| Ok, just feel the need to put in my two cents.
I can buy wifi gear right now. It works, not as well as we would all like but it does work if used correctly. How many Wisps are using wifi in the USA alone?
Where can I buy wimax gear at? I am not trying to be a smartass or anything, but how you can argue whitepaper facts? How many times has "whitepaper facts" not lived up to real world usage. I am not saying wimax is not going to work or anything like that, I just say wait and see. What happens if wimax is another bluetooth or tablet pc. Cool tech but how many are really using it? I tend to agree on with SB Tech when he mentioned the Intel marketing machine when it comes to wimax, I want to see it.
Most of you guys have forgotten more WISP'ing knowledge than I can learn in a month of Sundays. This forum has helped me more times than I can count and dont want to offend anyone. I say, lets just wait and see. Because last time I checked, thats pretty much all we can do right now, unless I missed something in regards to wimax going live.
CJ |
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cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA
| reply to FreedomFire
One company that has been making a WiMax like system for over a year now has been Aperto Networks. It's gear is pretty darn expensive though. They're also a member of the WiMax forum and 802.16 working commitees and they have almost no marketing hype.
What they do have a product that works extremely well if you have the capital or leasing ability to deploy it. The first generation WiMax systems will be the same. I've already compared the 2 and my views are know above, however I won't let anything influence my current (6 months to a year) deployment strategy if I can't buy it now or at least in the next few months.
WiFi is here now and it does have it's place. So do the different proprietary systems like Trango, Canopy, Alvarion etc. The bottomline is you need to make a decision based on your needs and deployment plans.
For example I might be deploying a WISPLite in my neighborhood in LA. For this deployment WiFi makes the most sense, I can build 2 radio repeaters using either Mikrotik or Mesh and many of my customers can get access with a simple 802.11b adapter.
However if I was really trying to compete vs offer more of a community service I would be looking at a completely different deployment plan.
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CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber |
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dongato17
VIP
join:2000-07-28
Atlanta, GA
| reply to FreedomFire
While normally I would not comment on things such as this, I just can't resist this time. I think both sides have made good points. But I would also like to throw a different spin on this.
Whether we are talking 802.11 or 802.16 (add all the letters you want), the short answer to the original question is *neither* are the future for the mainstream WISP.
Those of you who have been in the market for some time already know why. Those of you just getting in will find out. |
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korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs:
| said by dongato17 :
Whether we are talking 802.11 or 802.16 (add all the letters you want), the short answer to the original question is *neither* are the future for the mainstream WISP.
Oh boy did you open a big can of worms.  
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WISP Directory Industry News and Wi-Fi Hotspot Industry News |
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dongato17
VIP
join:2000-07-28
Atlanta, GA | Hehe... Yeah, no kidding. Like how I didn't say exactly why that is? I'm not planning to either. :-P
Now, there are two ways this thread can go: constructive or destructive. Let's see which way it heads... |
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SB Tech
join:2002-10-20
Allentown, PA
| reply to Nowireneeded
said by Nowireneeded :
SB Tech, Pretty funny post. I think you need some more time studying what Wimax brings to the party. You're grinding an ax- 802.11b gear is not efficient (bits per Htz), not adept at NLOS offerings, does not have a mac very capable of QOS or a standard polling protocol and many other things that will enable scaling of major outdoor wireless networks that cannot be built with bubble gum and shoestring. Wimax was built from the ground up as an outdoor protocol that will scale well beyond 802.11 capabilities. If Smart Bridges thinks they can bypass Wimax so be it and I'd put money on the fact that they'll be humbled with that decision.
There is no ax to grind here. We are very open to adopt the new technologies. That is how industry makes progress. And we don't have vested interest in either of the standards. So more power to them to bring out the best.
All I am trying ot point out is that there are alternatives being developed. Some of them exceed the capabilities of what WiMax is offering. And to do a proper comparision, look at them in the same time frame. Comparing where 802.11 was 3-5 years ago to where WiMax will be in next 1 or 2 years does not make sense.
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smartBridges Customer Support Team
Email: support@smartbridges.com |
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
2 edits | reply to FreedomFire
The WiMax hype, particularily the NLOS hype, puts me in mind of a company that was promising two miles NLOS thru metro areas... Vivato.
It never ceases to disappoint me how otherwise competent engineers will talk up the NLOS performance characteristics ot the latest hyped technology, especially when they have a vested interest. If there is one thing missing in the industry which would do everyone a whole lot of good, it is honesty.
WiMax is going to be a fine platform. It will make it possible to solve problems Alvarion, Cisco, Orinoco, and a whole slew of other vendors have already solved in their WiFi products. This nonsense of "indoor" vs "outdoor", and "MAN" vs "LAN", when applied in this context is utter blather. Certain timing constraints when loosened in 802.11 make it quite viable as a "WAN" protocol. Were that not true, Lonnie would have never done a 72 mile PtP link... duh.
Yes, WiMax is going to be a nice addition to the toolbox. But folks, it is NEVER going to be any better at NLOS than 802.11, and I guess that is what really pisses me off the most. I can accept ignorance, but I have a real problem with lying for profit. The NLOS claims of WiMax are not based upon ignorance they are based upon a "profit at all costs motive."
Now somebody is going to chime in here and start talking about this modulation or that hamming code and how the FEC is going to improve NLOS range. Please don't bother. When the equation for link budget changes call me. Nothing anyone has done in the past fifty years has changed the computations for link budget. Most certainly WiMax is not going to change that equation either.
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»members.ozemail.com.au/~lbrash/msjokes/ |
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